This is something I'm finding fun and interesting. I have heard that there weren't too many brought in back in 76 and 77. Some estimate that number to be under 200. I don't know if this is correct and I will be the first one to step up and tell you that I have no idea how many came in originally. What I'm noticing is the lack of these bikes that you see or hear about these days. How many would you guess are still out there, running, basket cases or otherewise? Also, how many POG members have one?
Britt Boyette
1976 125 MC5
There were indeed not many MC5 125's; and I believe the number to be under 200, that came into the states in 76 and 77. Some of the early ones had trouble with seizures and some of those probably got put to the side. Part of why you don't see many is because of these two factors and also that they are not real competitive in the Historic 125 class so a lot of racers pass on them. By 77 the Japanese 125 was far superior than any of the European 125's. Cool bikes none the less, and the low numbers makes them long term potentially very collectible.
Larry P
I just like MC5s in general and you just don't see 125s' very often. I do plan on trying to race mine at some point but I probally won't get too carried away with it. This bike did have a pretty good run at racing back in the day and according to the man who owned it back then, didn't have any issues with it. He did run the Electron carb and now it has the Mikuni but other than that, it's just the same. I do try to pick up extra 125 parts for future spares because you just never know how an engine like this will hold up but I think it will, plus I'm a Jr. rider so I don't ride bikes to their limits anyway. This might be a good match for me. My current rider is a Can Am MX-2 125 so thats what I'll be comparing it with.
Britt Boyette
1976 125 MC5
Britt,
http://gallery.pentonusa.org/gallery/album09/DSC00404
Here's the 1976 MC5 125 I found about 5 1/2 years ago in Ann Arbor, MI.
Probably the least used Penton I've ever run across.
Nothing has been repainted, or touched up.
The only parts on it that are not original-to-new are the hand grips, and tank decals.
Our Admin Bill Smith lives in the same area I found this one - he also has a 125 MC5, found in very good condition.
Bob
I have a 1977 MC125 that I am putting back together. When I bought it, it had a disassembled and rough motor. Thanks to fellow Penton club members, I have most everything I need to get it going this winter.
The one that was on display at Mid Ohio a couple of years ago was a super nice original.
Shane
I'm pretty sure this one is Bill's.
From the 40/10 Anniversary celebration.
http://gallery.pentonusa.org/gallery/album18/2008_0921_Images0011
And 2006 VMD@M-O
http://gallery.pentonusa.org/gallery/album10/2006_0729_VintageDays06_0026
Rob,
Did you sell your 125 yet, the one on CL? Our buddy John Raliegh still wants to come by and check out some bikes when you get some free time. My friend Britt's Penton is stunning. I have seen it in person.
Looks like Britt has been spending quite a bit of time on the POG site by the amount of postings. It took me nearly a year before i had 25 postings and almost 10 years for 250 postings. At this rate, he will bypass me at by next March!
I guess I just don't spend enough time on the POG site......shame on me!
Clay
1973 Penton 125
1969 CZ 360
Clay,
I still have the '72 Six-Day. I did sell the '73 Berkshire project last week.
Spoke to John a little over a week ago, still have not met. He's welcome to come by anytime.
Bob
This weekend was a slow one, what can I say? Plus, who doesn't want to talk Penton.? Does anyone still race theirs?
Britt Boyette
1976 125 MC5
Tom Flores has a really nice '78 MC5 125. It too was not used very much and was in great condition.
Brian
'72 Berkshire
Britt - Don't know about 125 MC5s but growing number of Pentons are turning up locally in OR/WA.
Siege has been racing his '74 Harescrambler 250 most all this past year, and just bought a real clean '77 MC5 250 from one of the Suzuki brothers(?) but hasn't had it out yet. I raced my Mint 400 in the TransAm class last April, but have been on an '81 Evo-KTM otherwise. When they change rules to allow my MC5 400 in Trans-Am class, I'd run it there.
You used to run the slender yellow tank CZ in vintage, no?
Jon McLean
Lake Grove, OR
Jon so I can race my 1974.5 penton 250 in the Ahrma sportsman class but not in the VDR vintage class whatz up with that !?:( I thought they had cooler rules .[8D] ] LG
I tried...am still trying to get a 76 to be competive for PV MX. Besides the all alum clutch, I lightened a couple gears, did some exterior engine trimming, used 1980 125 wheels, smaller 75 mx tank and anything else I could do for weight reduction (except go on a diet, of course!). For engine performance I lightened and stuffed the crank, used a newer Motoplat with auto advance/retard mapping, ported the cylinder (mainly opening up the intake, adding a center boost finger and widening the exhaust. Went with a 79 pipe and tried both a 32 and 36mm Bing.
I have to say I was disapointed with the results. The powerband hits hard and then almost immediately signs off hard. Too narrow for the wide ratio gearbox, which is the main problem for this engine for MX.
Im thinking of going to a 34mm Mikuni and a more convential pipe such as a modified 74 style pipe. That 79 125 pipe seems awfully big for this 125 to charge. Maybe a smaller pipe (and carb?) will widen out the powerband some...I hope. Any ideas anyone? Boy it sure looks cool though!
Jon, no that was another Bret. I want to say his last name is Gibany or something close to that.
Larry, you can race your bike in VDR vintage if you choose to. I've run my CanAm in both vintage and Transam on the same day.
Mike, I've heard in the past that the best thing you could do for a Penton back in the day was to just add a GEM reed kit. Other than that, it might of been way easier to just get a larger engine. The 175 is a great engine, all things considered. I know I would rather have a 250 than a 125 but this is what I do have and I am happy with it. I will see in time how well the Mikuni 34 does on it and let you know. I wonder if a lightweight flywheel like the one found with the PVL would make a difference on how the engine would do on a MX track?
Britt Boyette
1976 125 MC5
you can race a 74.5 Penton in VDR. it all depends on how you set it up. it you run the rear shocks in the up right postion with the shock moved back towards the rear axle. then yes it can be run as a vintage legal bike. if you run the rear shocks layed down then you must run it in either a PV class or what we call the TransAm class. It is sort of like the Historic class. But unlike the historic class the MC 5's are not legal for this class. I argued that they were not competitive enough to run with the 79 Elsinor's which seem dominate the 250 PV class, The reasons are too numerous to list here. It can be done but then it would no longer be a 76/77 MC 5
So my MC 5 sits in my Garage gathering dust...
Thom Green,Still crazy after all these years!
76' 250 MC5 (orginal owner)74'
250 hare scrambler (project bike)
Maybe the MC5 will have to sit for a bit longer Thom as it looks like I will have to miss the Nov. Woodland race. Sorry, maybe a rain check for another time?
Have you considered doing the Salem indoor vintage races?
Britt Boyette
1976 125 MC5
The 1976 125 Penton / KTM engined bike had major issues. I never knew one to run more than 30 miles. My boss had one that he finally parked. It broke engine cases and couldn't stop it from seizing. When he closed the shop in 1982 he sent it to the dump (very sad). It looked show room new. It had less than 60 miles on it. I think I remember Dane putting a 1976 top end on a Sachs bottom end and it worked. I think most must have had problems as you find most are almost like new when they are found. Someone told me that they had one that ran fine but I never saw it.
The 1977-78 models worked well I think.
Any guesstimates how many of these bikes are still out there?
What I noticed about mine when I put the fresh top end on it was that I had to stack two base gaskets to get the proper X demension on the piston. It looked like it could leak between the gaskets and I'm sure the last set had done just that. I had to pull the topend after I discovered a leaking base gasket and you could see the wet area between the gaskets. This new set has Honda Bond between the two gaskets so hopefully that will work. I 'm on the 3rd over on the piston now so lets hope it the last.
Britt Boyette
1976 125 MC5
Britt, it is not unusual to need to use more than one base gasket. they are built to work that way. I sort of allows you to fine tune your motor to fit your situation...
As for riding my MC 5 no worries, I discovered a couple of days ago that the supplier did not send all the parts I needed to fix my shocks... my fault not his... So the parts are on their way and hopefully the shocks will be ready soon. So the bike will not be ready for the nov. race. but anytime you are ready to ride the bike and if I can get the bike to you... or if I am going.. Salem is too far... I am almost 4 hours north of Portland so that puts Salem nearly 6 hours... Each way....
Thom Green,Still crazy after all these years!
76' 250 MC5 (orginal owner)74'
250 hare scrambler (project bike)
Thanks Thom! It may be the Feb H&T race but any race would be fine. I want to ride it when it's good for you.
Britt Boyette
1976 125 MC5
THOM
Get that MC-5 out racing. Heres what you can do to help out if running against late 70's bikes. Go to the 38mm forks with the "fluted" 80/81 damp rods and spacer them down for desired travel. I stick with 9.5-10 inches travel to keep the bike sitting right, and slide the tubes up as far as possible. Put some Works shocks on the back with 4 inches of shaft travel, 13.75 or 14 inch. This will give you about 10 inches travel front and back. 9 or 10 inches of travel can actually be an asset on most PV tracks as the bike still keeps the vintage feel to it concerning cornering, which the 12 inch travel bikes had lost. Are you mainly passing over jumps or in/out the corners? I'd bet corners. And of course you can make this engine go as fast as you want. Some porting, internal rotor ign and the 78/79 style pipe will make it fly, with plenty of low end. I made my kid a bike like this and I swear everytime I ride it I cant get over how the power feels like my 400 MC-5. And your starting out with much better handling than a 79 Honda. Have you ever ridden a 79 Honda. I have and believe me I would rather race a stock 76/77 mc-5 than a stock 79 Honda. In fact back in 78 my buddy got one of those and after riding my 78 KTM he sold it and bought A KTM! Be happy to help if you decide to dust it off for some Honda beating!
Thanks Mike, I will give it some thought...I already have a really nice pipe (the orginal Protopipe)and a Mikuni on that bike, it really helps it pull off the bottom end. a bit of porting and a little work to the carb to make it breath a bit better and the motor should really fly.. As for the those stock forks, they sure can use some help...they are too whimpy. A set of 38's would really make a difference....a set of 42's would be even better.....need to keep my eyes open for a set of those. I have a set of freshly rebuilt Fox gas shocks that I really love but they are only 13.25 in length a set of 14's would be better. I quess my only hesitation is the fact that I bought this bike new the only modifications I have done to it are the ones I did back in spring of 77. Not sure I want to mess with a historically correct Machine. It would be fun to see what I could do wiht this bike though...
Thom Green,Still crazy after all these years!
76' 250 MC5 (orginal owner)74'
250 hare scrambler (project bike)
(http://i907.photobucket.com/albums/ac280/Tflores47/IMG_2637.jpg)
Here is my 78 MC5 125. Appeared to have very low hours but was in rough shape. I completed rebuilt and restored it. Original 36mm bing has proven to be a bit challenging to dial in but I have it real close now. Thinking of trialing a 34mm Lectron on it.
Tom
78 must have had an all new engine. My 76 looks much different.
(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l50/MotoBrittB/Penton/Penton125MC5-detail2.jpg)
I now have a 75 250 HS coming my way that's going to give up it's engine for the MC5 cause. As usual, the engine condition is unknown.
Britt Boyette
1976 125 MC5
The ignition cover is what makes it look so different. The plastic round cover gives better clearance for the rear brake lever and was used on 79-80 KTM engines and then revised again in late 1980. Also the torque pipe was introduced into production in 1978. Mike
Michael R. Winter
I enjoy rebuilding and appreciating Pentons!
1974 250 HS Pentons-1980 KTM 175-400'S
Yep. I have the original magnesium cover that came with it along with the original side panels, fenders and shocks that are in very good condition, I wanted to preserve them so I replaced them with DC plastics for racing. The plasic mag cover is an original HiPoint aftermarket cover I had collected.
I also have a 77/78 250 MC5 motor I rebuilt and was contemplating putting in it to compete in a local Texas Vintage Racing class that has some really great competitors in.
Did they revise the cylinder too? I wonder if it would work on the older 125?
Britt Boyette
1976 125 MC5
I have a 1976 125 MC5 and a 77 125 MC6. Anyone else ever hear of the MC engine having 6 gears? I've got a 34mm Lectron on my 77 and a bing on my 76. I belive that Penton ported the 77 cylinder to mild out the hit. Bothe bikes are much more enjoyable to ride with the 34mm lectron as compared to the bing.
I think w/the bing you need to make sure that you replace the slide, needle and brass needle jet barrel that holds the main jet on a regular basis or you will get surging which will be a falese indication and make you start looking for an intake or base gasket leak.
My 76 has about 60 hours on it since new. (guess b/c the original rear tire is 1/2 worn) and I've never had a problem with it. I'm surprised to hear about the problems with the 1976 125 engine. Growing up my freind Barry Avery had a 1976 125GS. He and his brothers rode NETRA Jr enduros and trail rode it for 3 seasons before ever replacing the rings.
72 Penton 6 day 125
72 Penton 175 Jackpiner
75 Penton GS6 400
76 Penton 125GS
76 Penton 250GS
77 Penton GS6 400
77 KTM 250GS
77 Penton 125 MC6
78 KTM 175GS6
78 KTM GS6
78 1/2 KTM 175GS6
76 Hercules GS175
1978 GS125 Hercules w/coffin tank
76 GS250 Herc
All the 125/ 175/ 250/ and 400 engines have 6 gears in them.
On the MC-5s - access to 1st gear was disabled on the shifting drum.
It's like the ads for Prego spaghetti sauce - "it's in there". You just can't access it.
The KTM 125s were good dependable engines - perfect for enduro riding but underpowered for MX competition.
Alan Buehner
Nice looking 125 Tom.I've been meaning to call you (no particular reason,just to catch up),but been busy with life in general.Hope all is well and i'll call you soon.Later,Ric
POG Members,
I have a 1976 penton cross country 125 that has a lot of good parts on it including tank, air box and air box cover, clean painted frame, aluminum base seat in good condition, etc. All orange color like the MC5s.
I would be willing to trade this bike, not complete with a like condition of a B sachs powered 125/100cc cmf penton of the 73' vintage, also unrestored or a bunch of parts put together as an equal option too. I don't need a sachs motor. Let me know and be sure to include your email address in the return POG email while I have pictures too if you want.
peter klinck
Peter,I have a lot of 125 cmf basket cases,etc.Where are you located?I'm in Arizona-My email is
[email protected],cell# is (520)349-6124
This is only my experience. You could buy 2 RM 125's for the price of one KTM which is the main reason there numbers were low. There much heavier than a RM 125. They make allot less horse power than a RM 125.
They are a cool bike and could make a great collectable pool room bike but race bikes they are not as competitive as say the RM 125. The 79/80 models are a very competitive bike.
I have a basket roller waiting for resto. If there were less than 200 I imagine parts are going to be very thin on the ground....