Penton Owners Group

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320482102320&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:de

1973 Penton Jackpiner
1982 Yamaha XT200
1982 Yamaha XJ650J Maxim
1987 Yamaha YZ490
2005 Honda CRF450R

Sounds like a road trip to Germany.

Ron Carbaugh

Ron,

What does the "GS" prepared/manufactured machine mean ?

Thanks.

Victor

Victor,
  In my opinion the term GS is a over used or self imposed term that changes depending on what part of the world you are in or what wording is on the paperwork is from KTM.  The bike looks like what I would call (in the USA) a 1974 based on the rear loop, but it has the '73 pipe.  As you know that Suchs built engines for many different manufacturers and some of those manufacturers requested what is known as GS porting or tuning.  This engine is missing the engine tag so I do not know what this particular seller means by GS  prepared/manufactured unless he is talking about some work that he or a previous owner did.  Some information lost in translation and lingo used in different countries.
  Bike looks like a fairly stock late '73 or 74 bike?

Ron Carbaugh

"Gelande Sport" as endro? over seas. GS as on the motor in the USA is Special KTM Tuning? Not all Sachs motors Suchs, Ron. :D LG

In a nut shell, this could simply be "Special KTM Tuning (MARKETING)" and nothing else ?

I have heard many variations from real porting work, GS (Gear Shifting improvements to simple marketing strategies.

I agree sometimes the Sachs do suck.....but when they are tuned right, at least the 125 motors I have ran are screamers !  I have taken on the 1980's+- Suzukis, Yamahs and Kawasakis....when I am tuned properly also !

Very interesting.

Victor

I am curious what denotes a GS model, so I asked the seller:
Was genau macht dies eine GS-Modell?

1973 Penton Jackpiner
1982 Yamaha XT200
1982 Yamaha XJ650J Maxim
1987 Yamaha YZ490
2005 Honda CRF450R

OK, let me try and say this in a different more direct way....I do not believe this bike is anything special (period). [8D]  I was just trying to expand on the question for some new people that may have not followed this site that long.

RE:
In my opinion the term GS is a over used or self imposed term that changes depending on what part of the world you are in or what wording is on the paperwork is from KTM. The bike looks like what I would call (in the USA) a 1974 based on the rear loop, but it has the '73 pipe. As you know that Suchs built engines for many different manufacturers and some of those manufacturers requested what is known as GS porting or tuning. This engine is missing the engine tag so I do not know what this particular seller means by GS prepared/manufactured unless he is talking about some work that he or a previous owner did. Some information lost in translation and lingo used in different countries.
Bike looks like a fairly stock late '73 or 74 bike?




Ron Carbaugh

Ron I agree, was looking for the seller's version and did get a reply: This is an original GS ("Geländesport" in german) of KTM Austria with 6 gear Sachs engine.Build in 1973 incl. orig.Dokuments, one ouwner.Engine is running,Gearbox and Clutch OK.
best regards Erich

And I thought you were a Sox fan!  David

1973 Penton Jackpiner
1982 Yamaha XT200
1982 Yamaha XJ650J Maxim
1987 Yamaha YZ490
2005 Honda CRF450R

Wow, I just was in Germany last summer.  I could have my nephew pick it up!  How many Euros?:)

Kip the last I looked 505, which is $701.75, the Euro tanking in recent weeks. There's a really nice Berkie up there as well.

1973 Penton Jackpiner
1982 Yamaha XT200
1982 Yamaha XJ650J Maxim
1987 Yamaha YZ490
2005 Honda CRF450R

David,
  I am a Sox fan or I wouldn't have at least 20 in my garage including the factory tools!  Remember a lot of peoples interpretation of what they own differs from facts.;)

Ron Carbaugh

I don't think the seller implied "GS tuned" but simply that the bike was an enduro and perhaps "con documenti". If we are going to Germany, might as well get something not avail here, like this 1973 KTM 50cc GS bike! Apparently it was built by a KTM distributor not a factory 50, but it is really cool and is titled as a legit 73 50cc GS bike. (You prob need to be a rugginose member to see the link).

http://rugginose.forumfree.it/?t=45816191

Sachs don't suck,but like most europeans they sure as heck are finicky.Which in the end is why the japanese bikes ended up on top.It took better than average mechanics to keep the euro bikes on top.And most of the weekend warriors could whoop on the rising sun bikes and keep em runnin for cheap.
Dave

Dave.

I was simply joking on the "sucks" part.....same as Ron....I wouldn't have 15 or more of them here in my shop if I thought that.  Heck I was raised on them and I do have the best Sachs guy on the West Coast tuning my machines (Dr. Biro).

They are the fastest 100's and 125's for the era....no one beats me to the "first turn" unless of course I am not tuned properly.

I take back my statement....it was the Vicodin I have been taking for my illness, it can make me a bit "fuzzy" sometimes.  

I would put my Sachs powered Pentons up against any of these "west coatsers" (to the first turn or so) and none come close even the best of 'em....I just poop out after a few laps and may miss a gear or 2....getting in a hurry is my challenge...steady, sure shifting and concentrating...they can't be beat and what's the best is they run that way right out of the box !

I unboxed many of them when I grew up in Lorain, Ohio and had the blessing to hang around the R & D Shop watching it all evolve.

My apologies to any I offended with my poor choice of words.

Victor

Victor,
  You didn't offend me since we are all Friends.  I enjoy this site.

Ron Carbaugh

What does the "GS" prepared/manufactured machine mean ?

Victor,

   Here is my observation on the GS and Special KTM Tuning question.  

   The Pentons as they came out of the box were designed more towards enduros, or as it is also known, "Geländesport", hence the term GS, instead of MX for moto cross.

On page 103 of the KTM book written by Friedrich Ehn, there is a picture taken inside the KTM factory that shows many Sachs engines with their top ends off of them, KTM did some work on the Sachs top end components to better tune the engines towards GS, or enduro work, not MX work.  I have inquired to anyone who might know, just what exactly did KTM do, but I have never gotten an exact answer.  Just that the engines were tuned for GS, not MX work, and I sure don't need to tell you there is quite a bit of difference in an engine purpose built for MX verses enduros. Nothing like twisting up a little Sachs MX grenade to put a smile on the face.:D


 I have Sachs engines with "Special KTM Tuning" decals on them from the KTM factory, and have seen the GS Tuned decals on fuel tanks and engines, and from what I have observed and read, rightfully so.

Paul  

Very interesting.
Maybe Doug W. can shine some light.....

Steve Minor
Wilmington, NC

Victor,I took no offense.And what I said about the rising sun bikes I meant.Back in the day I also was living in Ohio and wrenching on Pentons,well primarily on Sachs engines and I must admit I eventually wandered,but I came back.Although to this day my primary practice bike runs on Saki.
Dave

New spin; as I heard the Sachs factory had a GS motor for MX as did the Monark factory ( GS Factory PRO )  stuffed  cases internal motoplat  and  rad porting [:p]. LG

Two cents worth on the GS topic. I purchased a Monark top end to run on one of my bikes. It was the GS version which means it ran a bigger carb (spigot is larger), different porting, and runs a different piston. Go to the Monark website for the GS porting spec, etc.