Penton Owners Group

General Discussion => Penton Talk => Topic started by: BrOpus on March 01, 2002, 05:37:45 PM

Title: I NEED HELP!!! 125cc six days
Post by: BrOpus on March 01, 2002, 05:37:45 PM
I was recently was given a 125cc Penton six days that has been sitting in a barn for about 20 yrs.  The exterior is not in all that bad of shape, exept for some surface rust. The Gas tank is green-painted metal  with white ovals covering either side,( it's completely rusted on the inside)and the intake is green as well.  The engine still compresses freely and the tranny still shifts.  If there is anyone out there who can help me identify what year this is and where can I get a repair manual and parts I would be ever greatful.          
                 -Mike
                  [email protected]

 
Title: I NEED HELP!!! 125cc six days
Post by: Paul Danik on March 01, 2002, 06:23:38 PM
Greetings and welcome to the land of Penton!!!!  There is a serial number on the stearing head that will help to identify the machine. The early machines are told apart mostly by the changes that evolved in the machine. You mentioned that the intake is green, do you mean that your machine has a green airbox behind the carb?  Since your Penton has a metal gas tank it was built  between 1968 to 1971. Are there holes on the sides of the main frame section under the gas tank? Are your cylinder fins steel or alluminum, a magnet will tell you.  Post what info you can and we will all try and help you.  Take a look at the photos in this site and see if your bike is similar to any of them.  As far as parts goes, we have a parts link on the home page with several guys listed.  Good luck and keep us posted.
Paul
 
















 
Title: I NEED HELP!!! 125cc six days
Post by: scott brogan on March 01, 2002, 09:23:40 PM
Oh my heaven . You really don't know what you have stumbled into with these people in the land of PENTON. They are some of the best caliber and helpul people on the planet.Not to mention the most friendly I have ever met. By posting your message here you will
now be able to get the most helpful information avalible. And from some of the people that actually were there in "THE DAY"
Like Paul there. And many more. Welcome and
enjoy!!!

 
Title: I NEED HELP!!! 125cc six days
Post by: BrOpus on March 01, 2002, 11:45:34 PM
I just looked and, yes, the airbox behind the carb.  The cylinder head consists of two parts, it seems.  The top that has fins pointing up is aluminum and the lower part with the fins pointing towards the sides are steel.  It has a # stamped on what i think is the flange on the bottom of the head: 0613 1070 000  It has a skidplate welded onto the frame that has holes puched out in it, and green shock boots on the rear. I got the exhaust, gas tank, and the engine/tranny off today. I also managed to take the carb off (there's this gross brown goo in there) and apart.  Is soaking the carb in carburetor cleaner ok?  Will I need to buy some sort of rebiuld kit for it?  Sorry for all the questions, I just really want to get this wonderful beast running again!
-Mike
[email protected]

 
Title: I NEED HELP!!! 125cc six days
Post by: Paul Danik on March 02, 2002, 07:03:50 AM
Mike,
 I believe that you have come across a very early machine, that is wonderful.  The painted shocks and the airbox are rare.  The number that you supplied 0613 1070 000 is the part number for the head, I think.  The 0613 portion is the Sachs prfix for the early heads, the rest of those numbers don't match anything in my book, leading me to believe that you may have a Sachs high compression head.Maybe someone else can match that part number for us.  Look for the frame serial number on the steering head.  It will just be several numbers stamped into the metal.  As far as the carb goes you can still buy most any part that you may need. Does the airbox have a knob on the left side that is used to remove a cover?
Paul

 
Title: I NEED HELP!!! 125cc six days
Post by: BrOpus on March 02, 2002, 09:12:19 AM
The number on the head is V 709.  The number on the cylinder head is actually 0613 107 000.  The carburetor is a Bing.  I went to their website, but that carb doesn't seem to be listed there.  Where can I get a rebuild for it?  And, yes, one side of the airbox is removeable by taking out a screw in the middle of the plate.  Thanks a million!!!
-Mike
[email protected]

 
Title: I NEED HELP!!! 125cc six days
Post by: Paul Danik on March 02, 2002, 12:13:13 PM
You are the proud owner of the 709th Penton to roll off of the assembly line. I would think that would make your machine a 1968.  How many bolts are used to hold the rear sprocket to the rear hub?  The early ones came with a four bolt hub that would shear and they were replaced with a 6 bolt version.  The bolts didn't shear, the internal drive parts did. If you have the four bolt version I would replace the drive rubbers that are inside.  Also, are there rubber fork boots on the bike?  There isn't to much in a bing carb that needs replaced unless you discover a torn gasket or a bad float or needle seat. I normally take the thing apart and clean and inspect every part and jet.  Make sure the passages are all clean in the carb body.  If you need a part contact one of the parts suppliers listed in the parts section of this site. You need to get a copy of Penton parts book 001,and a copy of a repair manual, the parts guys should have copies for sale. Your machine is quite collectable, some riding on it wouldn't be bad, but I really wouldn't use it every weekend to go out with the guys. You might be interested in getting a copy of the John Penton book from the AMA and finding out the Penton history, both the man and the machine.
Paul

 
Title: I NEED HELP!!! 125cc six days
Post by: BrOpus on March 02, 2002, 01:34:12 PM
No, she doesn't have shock boots on and yeah, the rear hub has four bolts, but I am kind of confused of what part shears and what do I do to remedy this.  I defintely will buy all three books.
-Mike
[email protected]


 
Title: I NEED HELP!!! 125cc six days
Post by: BrOpus on March 02, 2002, 03:50:42 PM
The carb is completely apart exept for this black plastic spring-action button.  When I press it, a pin depresses into the float chamber.  This is the only piece left, and I can't clean it with this thing on since the cleaner will dissolve plastic.  Should I just use another cleaner and not the dip-tank kind?  Man, I really want to get this thing running before I leave for college in the fall!  YThanks!!
-Mike

 
Title: I NEED HELP!!! 125cc six days
Post by: Paul Danik on March 02, 2002, 03:52:58 PM
If you take the back wheel off you will see where the sprocket carrier mates to the hub.  The mating metal parts are cushioned by some rubber horseshoe shaped bushings.  I would put new rubber bushings in.  If the rubber bushings are dry rotted or wore out they will no longer cushion the metal mating parts.  That 4 bolt sprocket carrier and hub are rare and you don't want to tear it up.  The fingers on the hub are what shears off, I remember exactly where I was when my hub sheared, over 30 years ago!!!!!
Paul

 
Title: I NEED HELP!!! 125cc six days
Post by: Paul Danik on March 02, 2002, 04:00:49 PM
Man I can't keep up with you!!!! That spring action button is called the tickler.  It pushes the float down and lets extra fuel flood the engine for cold starting.  I have never taken one of those off.  If you hand dip the carb to that point you should be fine.  Any of you other guys have a comment on this just jump right in.
Paul
PS  After sitting all those years you also need to check out the airfilter, they can  rot out sometimes and parts of it can be sucked into the engine.

 
Title: I NEED HELP!!! 125cc six days
Post by: mikey on March 02, 2002, 09:05:28 PM
couple things..you can remove the tickler but its not simple..you need a dremel to take the little bump off the shaft and it will fly out(spring pressure) but you will have to drill it put a tiny washer and cotter pin to put it back or you can put it in and squeeze score it with a pair of cutting pliers and most times it will stay..also if its been sitting in a barn check the pipe for a rats nest..it will shut the bike down real bad if its full of crap..I have bought more than one bike for peanuts because it didn't run worth a crap..I would take the silencer etc out and start it up and watch the fireworks of crap blow out the end of the pipe..for what its worth!

 
Title: I NEED HELP!!! 125cc six days
Post by: BrOpus on March 02, 2002, 09:54:19 PM
Well, the bike is not running now, but I think I have an exellent chance of getting it started if I rebuild the carburetor, get a new tank, and get new wires and schematic for wiring it up.  As for the muffler, it seems ok.  Do you guys think it's a good idea to open the engine and transmission up and check it all out if it still compresses freely and shifts?
-Mike
[email protected]

 
Title: I NEED HELP!!! 125cc six days
Post by: Paul Danik on March 02, 2002, 10:47:11 PM
Mike,
   If it were mine I would want to get it started and try it out first.  The reason being is you really don't know if anything is wrong unless you try it. Several things usually occur after a machine has been sitting for a long time.  The mag seal, located behind the flywheel on the right side of the engine, will be dried out and it will maybe run lean. If it is bad it can be changed without splitting the cases.  The other common thing is for the clutch plates to be stuck together. This can be somewhat solved sometimes by pulling the clutch in while riding in low gear and applying the rear brake, sometimes not!!!! A way to check the clutch before hand is pull it in and kick the engine over, the plates should slip. Either way don't be aiming at a wall the first time you try and slip it into gear.  I would actually get the bike rolling and pull the clutch in and then put it in gear, it's easier on the gears if the clutch grabs.  There is only one wire to worry about. The blue wire that comes out of the ignition is your hot wire that goes to the coil.  All of the other wires are not needed to run the machine. What part of the country are you located in?  I my opinion you won the lottery when you recieved that Penton.  Does it have lights?
Paul


 
Title: I NEED HELP!!! 125cc six days
Post by: Kip Kern on March 03, 2002, 08:30:48 AM
Your next step in this "addiction" is to come to Mid Ohio, July 19-21st and visit the Penton display, Row "G" in the swapmeet.  There will be several Penton folks and bikes and each of your questions can be answered!  Have Fun!

 
Title: I NEED HELP!!! 125cc six days
Post by: Mark Annan on March 03, 2002, 09:57:02 AM
I'm agree with Paul.  

YOU DEFINITELY WON THE BIKE LOTTERY !!

You have what sounds like a good example of an early Penton.  If you decide to sell it you will have no problem finding buyers here.  As Paul suggested get it running and ride it a little, but don't thrash it.  Removing the engine side covers and having a look is a good idea.  You will be able to completely drain the old oil from the transmission and have a good look at the clutch.  It will also enable you to get an idea about any internal rust (due to condensation or water in the oil).  I would also recommend pulling of the head and having a look at the cylinder and top of the piston.  Removing the cylinder is also a good idea. If the piston is bad it is better to find out now than start it up and have it come apart and cause some REAL damage.  (look for cracks in the skirt in the corners of the cutouts).  Finding a good tank for your bike could potentially be rather expensive.  First clean out the inside of yours,  I'd bet it will be fine.  (a little muriatic acid works great)  Do you have access to a digital camera?  A few pictures would be great, (a picture is worth a thousand words).   Contact Al or Larry from the Parts page.  They will have all the manuals and gaskets you will need.  (and many of the other parts you will eventually want)  Have fun and good luck.

Mark

PS I also won the lottery, but that was back in ''81 when the prize wasn't nearly as valuable.  

I just realized, you must have been born in ' 83 if you are starting collage this fall.

 
Title: I NEED HELP!!! 125cc six days
Post by: BrOpus on March 03, 2002, 12:36:12 PM
Yep, that makes me 18 and I live in Charlotte, NC.  I'm getting pretty enthusiastic about getting her running again and I'm spending just about every free moment trying to get it working.  I definitely will plan a road trip to Ohio this july to feed my new found "addiction" (I just need to know specifically where it will be held), and if any of you guys will be there, I'd like to know.  I have a digital camera and I'll take some pics if you'll tell me where to send it.  And about those screws on the transmission cover - they just don't want to budge.  I tried this stuff called Fre-eze overnight, but it doesn't help.  Any ideas?  And the gas tank looks not all that bad, it's just badly rusted on the inside.  I mean, when I poured all the old fuel out, it was mixed with rust chips.  Will muriatic acid get rid of that?
Oh yeah, and Paul?...no lights, unfortunately.
-Mike
[email protected]

 
Title: I NEED HELP!!! 125cc six days
Post by: Kip Kern on March 03, 2002, 08:13:21 PM
Mike

The Vintage Day's East is held in July, 19-21 at Mansfield Ohio (Mid Ohio Sports Car Course).  Yes, everyone will be there with their bikes and parts so plan on the trip.  Row "G" of the swapmeet area!

 
Title: I NEED HELP!!! 125cc six days
Post by: Mark Annan on March 03, 2002, 09:59:17 PM
Mike,

There will be a bunch of POG people there. Including the #1 man, John Penton.  To put it in a nut shell.  One of the best men you will ever meet.  An expert rider, businessman, innovator, and truly nice guy.  Bring your bike (or just the tank) and have him autograph it for you.

You might want to check out another web site/group.  Vinduro  There is another bunch of great guys there (several of them are POG members also) that can help you out and offer advise.  You can post pictures there.  Check out the site and you will find a link to joining their email group where you can post the pictures.

//www.vinduro.com

You can also set up a personal photo page on Yahoo so you can share photos with the whole world.

http://photos.yahoo.com/    

Yes, the acid should do a good job of cleaning out the tank.  Pour a little in (1/2 cup or so) and slosh it around.  Repeat until clean.  Don't let the acid stay in contact with the outside of the tank (or anything else you want to keep nice looking).  Have a hose or bucket of water ready to rinse off and spills or splashes.  You might want to add something to the mix to help knock some of the crud loose.  A few small rocks or a hand full of small nuts and washers.  Remove the petcocks and put rubber stoppers in their place.  Try and do the same for the filler.  You may want to put some tape over the plugs to keep them from working loose during the shaking.  When you get it cleaned out flush it thoroughly with water.  Blow out as much of the water as you can and then rinse it out with alcohol a couple of times.  Then blow it out again.  If you can do it put it in a warm (not hot) oven for a while to completely dry it.  After all this you can put a little oil in the tank and coat the inside to protect it for a while.  You might want to seal the inside of the tank.  There are several products out there that do a good job.  If you get one of them follow their directions about cleaning the tank.

Eastwood sells a highly recommended tank sealer.  I haven't personally used it but know several people that have and really like it.

http://www.vista1.com/eastwood/


Many small screws on motorcycles can become rather reluctant to move after 30 years.  Get yourself one of those impact drivers you hit with a hammer.  They work great.  The blow from the hammer driver the bit into the fastener while simultaneously rotating it.  The shock also helps rattle loose some of the corrosion in the threads.

Regards,  Mark      

PS I'm in St. Louis and I won the Penton lottery in '81 when I was 16.


 
Title: I NEED HELP!!! 125cc six days
Post by: BrOpus on March 04, 2002, 06:01:50 PM
Okey, I picked up an impact driver today, and it took 2 screws off.  As for the other screws, they will not budge.  Should I get a tap and die set, tap the old screws out, and put in replacement screws?  Do you think it will be ok to leave the transmission cover alone?

 
Title: I NEED HELP!!! 125cc six days
Post by: BrOpus on March 04, 2002, 06:21:21 PM
Ah, before I forget, I tested the ignition and there's no spark from the plug... I even tried touching the hot wire but, again, nothing.  I'll take pictures of it all and post them on yahoo so you can take a look for yourselves.  Repair manual is on the way!!!

 
Title: I NEED HELP!!! 125cc six days
Post by: Paul Danik on March 04, 2002, 11:03:16 PM
If the slots in the screws are in decent shape you should be able to get them out. Lay that engine on the right side so you are hitting straight down. Lay it on something solid, don't use a mattress, wood is best.  Get a good grip on that inpact driver and make sure it is set to turn the proper direction when you hit it. Hit that sucker like you mean it. As far as the electric goes, that ignition should have points in it, they have to be in decent shape and set properly.  If this project isn't done before school starts this fall, just take it with you.  We used to work on them all nite in the motel room, a dorm isn't much different.  Those older ones fit real easy in the elevator late at nite!!!

 
Title: I NEED HELP!!! 125cc six days
Post by: john durrill on March 05, 2002, 07:27:23 PM
Mike,
if you get one case off dont let the shafts ( transmision , crank) touch when you hit the impact driver. that will put the bearings in a bind and may throw the crank out of true. You can build a little 2 x 4 frame to rest the engine cases on and have the shafts in the clear. Have you used an impact driver before? Not to be a wise guy but have it twisted in the direction you want the screw to turn and push down slightly on it. It will feel a little springy like that and works a lot better.
Good luck and congrats on the find,
John & Peter

 
Title: I NEED HELP!!! 125cc six days
Post by: don howard on March 08, 2002, 11:04:56 AM
Hi Mike. It sounds like your on your way to Pentonsville,enjoy a fine Machine. About your rusty steel tank, i have a 71 six day with a tank in the same condition as yours. I used a rust remover and inhibitor called Rustol it worked great. hereis the email //www.sudco.com give them a call. I still run a small filter just in case of the small stuff and so you can take a look at the gas flow.  Don Howard

 
Title: I NEED HELP!!! 125cc six days
Post by: tmc3c on March 24, 2002, 08:48:29 AM
Mike you hit the lotto big!!I used to race a steel tank back in the 70's in Charleston s.c. I found a 1976 250mc5 in a barn here in Greenville s.c. for a $100.00 and thought I hit it big,and still do.I am in resto stage now,like yourself.Take your time with that piece of history . I would love to see it a hare scramble on show for all to see!

Thomas Carmichael