Greetings,
I was just looking at some pictures from a very prestigious motorcycle show, the term "original" was used quite often in the text. It brought to mind a dilemma that I personally have been pondering for awhile.
The situation is this, a person has an original and un-restored 30 - 40 year old motorcycle, everything is as it left the factory right down to the last nut and bolt, and the original tires have little to no wear on them. The painted exhaust is starting to show a bit of surface rust and a bit of surface rust is starting to show on the steering head behind the number plate.
Should the pipe be removed and repainted?
Should the surface rust on the steering head be tended to?
Once this process starts it could be hard to stop as there is always the "next item" that looks like it could use a bit of TLC.
I cringe at the idea of repainting items on an original unmolested motorcycle that still has the original tires on it with little or no wear on them, but I do realize that we are just the temporary custodians of these prized machines and they need to be "preserved" for the next generation.
Thanks
Paul
Paul......in my humble opinion, an item can only be "original" once. I believe when you start repainting and touching up, it's very easy to get into the mind set of "well, while I'm at it I might as well.....". I say try to remove the surface rust with an oily rag and let the bike "age gracefully". Again, just my opinion.
Steve Minor
Wilmington, NC
Paul,
Since some of us are trying to recapture our youth... We may want to have our Penton look just as it did the day we picked it up at the dealer and got it ready for that first race. Although they be worth more $$$ in original condition, value to the owner is also important.
There's definately something about the patina of an all original bike. Myself, I like to clean them up a bit but rarely paint the frame & engine. I usually replace what I feel are consumables like fenders, bars, grips, levers etc with factory orig or period correct items these are parts that would have been swapped out on a well maintained bike anyway.
Randy,
I most certainly respect and admire the work that folks put into restoring a used machine to like new condition, I did a correction to my original post after I posted it because I didn't like the way it sounded in respect to restored and repainted machines.
I realize that for judging purposes my question may be answered one way and for preservation purposes another way. The surface rust on the steering head was pointed out to me by a person who has a lot of experience with judging and it has always been an item that I didn't want to just address and later find out it was a wrong move.
Thanks,
Paul
Paul,
Each person has their own opinion regarding the aesthetic appearance and subsequent value regarding restoration.
To me, there comes a time when a bike begins to look ratty, although original and unmolested. Primarily because of too many paint chips on the frame, boot rub marks begin to rust, gas tanks (dented and paint worn thru), seat covers become brittle and crack or are torn, and handlebars/triple clamp areas begin to show rust. When these conditions exist I cringe when the word - original - is used. To me a bike which is "original", looks ratty, and holds little value to me personally. I enjoy taking pride in my ownership of my vintage dirt bikes and would restore it closely to what it looked like as you first rolled it out of the dealer showroom.
Phil Ketchum
Hello, There is an old saying that goes something like this: "You can restore them a hundred times; but they are original ONLY once." I prefer to remember my motorcycles in the condition they were while raced. They may have not been in the most beautiful, show-room condition, but they were functional and reliable. I appreciate and enjoy viewing all conditions of motorcycles: from show-room restored to those found abandoned in the woods or field. My opinion is that painting the header part of the exhaust pipe is just part of routine maintenance, like oiling a chain, replacing fork seals, cleaning air filters, et.al. Joe
I appreciate both kinds of bikes, and I respect those that like fully restored bikes, but I personally prefer unrestored originals. In the car world unrestored machines with chips in the paint and signs of use its called "patina" and those cars, especially former race cars, that are not restored and ALWAYS worth more than restored versions. I also do not prefer what I call "over restored" machines, that are far better than when they were new.
But, thats the great thing about this hobby, each person can make their project what they want it to be.
Brian
I wonder what the Antique Motorcycle Club of America judges would say to this question? Have any of you shown bikes at their events and have any idea as to what their position is on repainting items on an "original" machine?
Paul
Paul,
My Dad restores Mustangs, and I can tell you there is a constant debate within the Mustang community about what is under restored, just right, and over restored. It never ends, and I would imagine bikes are no different.
Brian
Paul,
Anyone who has been to my business can verify that I have pictures of Pentons all over the walls of my store & office. I have pictures of bikes that have been restored by Rocket, Kip, Dennis, me, and lots of others. I also have pictures of unrestored bikes, like your tree-bike. Everyone likes to look at all of them and tell their stories about Penton motorcycles. Hey, that's the name of the game, huh? Oh yeah, there are a few pictures of the grandkids, too.
Like any other collectible vehicle, I would think that a motorcycle would become more valuable in unrestored condition once they hit a certain age. What age? ...who knows. The antique Indians, Excelciors, etc... would be good examples. Paul, I'm pretty sure I will keep my 69 Six-Day in 'as found' condition. I took your advise and parked it at a recent snowmobile swap meet and hung a 'Wanted' sign on it. It netted me a 76 CZ Falta Replica, a 74 KX250, a Malaguti Roncobilaccio Cross, and a lead on a couple of HD 250MXers. Also, there's a good chance that I may have located the original owner of my Penton. If so, I'll have original race photos from Turtle Park (Elkhorn, WI) to display with my unrestored piece! Thanks Paul! Tom G.
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Neat picture Tom. What year and size is the Malaguti Roncobilaccio Cross?
Ron Carbaugh
It really comes down to what real estate appraisers call the "highest & best use".
We each make a judgement about a bike as we come across them as to what the highest & best use of that particular bike will be in the future.
Certain bikes shouldn't be touched, but preserved for their historical value. While others are one step from the junk pile, and usable as parts only (or less).
Rider? Racer? Museum Piece? Basket Case? Pile of Scrap?
The last thing I would do is to restore a clean original bike that is still in excellent condition, while the noblest thing may be to make a neat project bike out of a basket case (or three).
Each bike we come across will be somewhere along that sliding scale, and it is up to us as purists & lovers of the sport to make those critical decisions while keeping tradition & history in mind.
Clark
I like to ride.I love to race.Working on them is like forplay. Sometimes I sit in the shop and just look at them. What ever your into fellas.
Dave
Thanks for all the reply's and comments. I think I will take Steve's advice and get the oily rag out and leave everything "age gracefully", may I be so lucky:)
Paul
Ron... The Malaguti is a 50cc Roncobilaccio CR3T.
Paul... Try some Evapo-Rust to remove rust. I buy it in 5-gallon pales and swear by the stuff. It is supposed to be used as a bath, but I simply wetted down the Rim in photo with a soaked rag. Did it about a dozen times or so, every 15-minutes, and it started taking off the heavy rust with just a little elbow grease. I did the same wipe down of the Tank and Frame also to get surface rust off... no damage to old paint or decals either. Good stuff! Then use the lightly oiled rag to preserve the finish. Tom G
(http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/3218/pentonrust.jpg)
Tom where do you get theis EvapoRust? Thank you,
Mick
Mick...check this site to find suppliers. It lets you enter your zip code for the closest supplier. Looks like AutoZone carries it.
http://www.evapo-rust.com/
Steve Minor
Wilmington, NC
If you have a Rural King farm supply store in your area, Evaporust is much cheaper there than at auto parts stores. Mike
Michael R. Winter
I enjoy rebuilding and appreciating Pentons!
1974 250 HS Pentons-1980 KTM 175-400'S
I get my 5-gallon pales from Nebraska HotRod Shop off ebay. Ebay ID = rrrolfs. Approximately $100.00 shipped to my door. Don't know if retail stores stock the 5-gallon pales. Nice thing is, you can use the stuff over and over until it turns black and stinks... then its time to pitch it. 5-Gallons goes a long way. Tip: If you submerge a part, make sure its completely covered, or it will leave a black line where it meets the air. Works great to remove rust inside Gas Tanks too. Tom G
It is around $15-$17 a gallon at Rural King. Mike
Michael R. Winter
I enjoy rebuilding and appreciating Pentons!
1974 250 HS Pentons-1980 KTM 175-400'S
Back to the "original" question. I personally don't mind using sprockets, cables, tires, aftermarket plastic or anything that looks original. What I (personally again) don't like at all are all kinds of race mods often in the form of billet parts on vintage and evo bikes. For example black or blue race prepped maicos. Awful!! To me is should look original but the parts don't have to be.
Paul my experience with original machines is leave them alone massage the plating with rust removers like Gibbs very careful on paint gibbs or a soft compound and wax my self I put gibbs on paint as well. Your right they are only original once.
the owner has to make a determination as to can this bike remain original or does it need a restoration.
I have lots of old bikes my earliest is a 1902 Indian and yes original bikes are far far more valuable than restored ones in some cases double or more. Think about it .
There are several hundred restored Indian 4's but good original ones there are maybe
3 or 4 good ones that I know of.
Knuckle head 1936's there are many restored ones that range in value from 80 to 100 K but there are 3 nice original ones and they have had offers over 250K
We are just custodians of this iron and we owe it to future people with interest to leave a
bike original when ever possible. I for one look at bikes from the 60's and 70's like they are new because most of my stuff is teens , 20's 30's and 40's so I only like original bikes of the 60's and 70's and 80's
Now if you were in the Barber Museum they seem to have most things restored but there are some nice original examples but not nearly enough.
Larry
By the way there was a guy selling a Gibbs type product at the swap meet and the product worked wonders on bringing a rusty orignal bike back to life.