I'm thinking about a "modern" purchase this Spring - and leaning towards a 250F for whatever reason..but it will have ELECTRIC start. In my mind - it is like not even an option.
Short list is the early Honda CRF250X - there seems to be few of them around on Craigslist for under $3k. Great suspension reviews, new replacement batteries are 1/4 weight of original. Figured I put in the Wiseco Big Bore kit that's out now and..ta-da - I'm ready for some Vet XC racing if I can last two hours, or just show up at local MX track (I've got like 3 of them within one hour of me, 2 of which use mostly or all natural terrain).
BTW - KTM's e-start two-strokes are also on my short list for the same reason. But I'm a cheap ##*& and not sure one of those is within reach.
Anybody want to talk me out of this crazy notion?
You wont find me trying to talk anyone out of a modern bike, I have one for play riding/practicing. I would not recommend a 250F though, they have a (relatively) short engine lifespan even at stock displacement and very few of them have been ridden mildly. 450s are more reliable because they make soooo much HP its hard to exceed their stress limits but for me personally they are just too much bike for anything but strictly MX.
I freely admit a bias towards two strokes so look at this recommendation in that light, but I would look for a KTM200, you dont need e-start on them and it far out performs any 250F in every measurable catagory. Dont overlook a KTM XC150 or Husky WR150 (just ask Dwight how much he likes his new WR150) if you are not too big for one. The 150s (or a YZ125 with a 144 kit) are fast, light, and surprisingly torquey and easy to ride. If e-start is a must-have, its hard to go wrong with an XC-W 250/300, they aint cheap, but they are worth every penny.
Brian
X2.
Put the $ needed for the 250F mods towards the 2 stroke purchase.
Pete Petrick
175 Jackpiner
Slow but Good
As a fellow rider who's pushing hard on 50 yrs old, I decided to dive head first into riding last year before I was too old to do it. Bought two new KTM's within 10 months. In May, I got a 300XC-W and put 1200 miles on it. Even though the 2 stroke really does not need e-start, I love it, especially when you stall it on a nasty off camber up hill. Just pull in the clutch and hit that button and gone! The 300 motor is incredible, you can ride it a gear high and lug or let 'er eat when you get in the open stuff.
During the Christmas holidays, I stopped by my KTM dealer to find the new 2011 250 XC-FW on display in the window. What a sweet looking bike with the Six Days graphics and orange frame. When I got home, the new issue of Dirt Bike was on the table with the Six Days on the cover! Due to Dirt Bike's glowing report, I had to have one for myself and picked up the window bike the following weekend. I've only got 5 miles on it but what a sweet ride, real predictable friendly power that wont kill you if you get to busy with the throttle. I can't wait for spring to get familiar with this new 2504t! If one is within reach, go for it my friend, this race we call life is one lap, no practice. Enjoy! -Kurt
Here's a pic of the new Six Days (2010 Mexico Edition).
(http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz91/klflashroadrunner/NewKTM250XC-FW121910002-1.jpg)
Here's a shot of my 300XC-W with the 2009 Portugal graphics
(http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz91/klflashroadrunner/NewKTM250XC-FW121910004.jpg)
Mr Close I would buy a KTM 250XCF 2008. You can pick them up for about 3000.00. Put a auto clutch in it. You will never stall it. Motor will last a long time. Later Gary
LOVE MY NEW HUSKY ! WR150, Electric start ? Who needs one ? This thing starts so easy ! Great low end and good power. Ultra lightweight. Very stable and turns great. Doesn't even need a steering damper. Got my suspension balanced and love it. Hall's Cycles in Springfield, Il. does a great job. So does Keytime Motorsports in Wi.
Dwight :D
Quotequote:Originally posted by G Ellis
Mr Close I would buy a KTM 250XCF 2008. You can pick them up for about 3000.00. Put a auto clutch in it. You will never stall it. Motor will last a long time. Later Gary
Right On! Here's a great deal on one in western Mass.
http://westernmass.craigslist.org/mcy/2171997764.html
Just a side note on the 4 stroke bikes. My son always has one or two of them in his shop for repairs, which hit your wallet pretty hard. This includes all sizes 125 to 450's and makes ,Suzuki, Honda, Kawasaki, etc. Most of these are used for MX and dirt track. Granted, they require more maintenance than a 2 stroke, but the cost to maintain is high.
To do a head on these bikes is roughly an $800.00 bill. He had one that when the head went, it took out the piston and pushed the rod through the cases. That's costly.
Tony
Heck no, keep the economy moving! I bought a new 2008 Husky TE 250 4 stroke and love it. Have had no problems with the bike since delivery and the only reason I would sell it would be to buy a new 2011 Husky 310 4 stroke. Valves were adjusted once and Halls remapped the EFI to GNCC specs. What a blast, light and fast!!!!!!!!
Hello all,
Like Too Close, I'm searching for the right modern mount for HS, enduros, trail riding and dual-sport. The crf250x is tempting because Hondas are generally very well made and this model seems good for eastern woods. But, Jap bikes are not that easy (or cheap) to make street legal, which is really important these days. I hear the KTM 400exc is a great east coast bike, with lots of smooth power, and not too tough to register, so that's at the top of my list. Any thoughts on the 400 exc?
Hank
Quotequote:Originally posted by Hank McCurdy
Hello all,
Like Too Close, I'm searching for the right modern mount for HS, enduros, trail riding and dual-sport. The crf250x is tempting because Hondas are generally very well made and this model seems good for eastern woods. But, Jap bikes are not that easy (or cheap) to make street legal, which is really important these days. I hear the KTM 400exc is a great east coast bike, with lots of smooth power, and not too tough to register, so that's at the top of my list. Any thoughts on the 400 exc?
Hank
I think KTM has the 450 EXC and the 530 EXC which are both already street legal. I was looking at the 530 the other month at Munn's Racing - it is a very sweet ride. Mr. Penton has given us a wonderful legacy with these KTMs. Of course, I also want that Husky 310 that Kip mentioned. All these bikes would be great to own.
Geez - guess I got the blood flowing with a few of you guys! :)
Thanks for ALL of the advice - and keep posting.
Dwight/Brian - I spotted a 150 XC in the classifieds and won't deny that a great argument can be made for putting one these in the garage. I've always been a small-bore racer (my MC5 is the first dirt bike larger than 175cc that I've ever raced off-road).
400gs6 - Man, that is some toy factory you got going there, love the bike graphics. Just can't explain why the FIRST thing I noticed in the background of was the giant Kahlua bottle. My local KTM dealer has a shiny new leftover 2009 250 XCF (not W) with some snazzy Red Bull graphics and some of those anodized orange KTM bolt-on widgets, but he's still listing it for $6k and....I don't think that's what I want to spend.
And appreciate the Craiglist look-up. Pretty damn close to what the doctor ordered. I'm breathing heavy as I type this.... [:p]
Mr Close Yes 4 strokes can cost money to work on them. I have aways ridden 2 smokers. I was under the thought that 4 strokes cost alot to maintain. This all depends on how you keep maintance on it. Change oil,clean filter, you won't have any trouble. I have over 120 hrs on mine,no trouble. I would get a KTM if it was me. Later Gary
I agree with Gary. I just bought a 07 250 XCF, and in doing my research before hand, I spoke with a half dozen riders in the range of high "B" to "AA," riders, and they all said, that the bike will last as long as you take care of it; meaning, lots of oil and filter changes, and remember it is a 4 stroke, and not a 2 stroke, so keep the RPM's down. Regular maintenance = longevity. If you were ever in the service, (I wasn't but my brother was) they taught you the "5 P's" Use them, and the bike will run a long time.
1976 MC 5 Original Owner
1982 Suzuki PE 175
1976 Husqvarna 175GP
2002 KTM 200 EXC
2007 KTM 250 XCF
1979 KTM 250 GS (Project)
1981 KTM 250 (Project)
You will have some fun making the choice. Here are 2 cents coming from a relatively inexperienced rider of 49 years of age --
1. If there is any way you can get a ride on the bikes before you buy, that would be ideal.
2. Modern bikes seem completely different in so many ways it is hard to compare to vintage -- but, based only on three 8-hour days in the desert in all kinds of off-road terrain and a little bit of road on an 09 Husky TE450 (street legal enduro), I would say this:
a. The modern bikes are super tall compared to vintage, and in the slow tight stuff it is not so easy to just dab a foot. So, you might consider a lower ride height if that is a concern. I am a hair short of 6' tall with 33" inch inseam and it was tough for me to just swing a leg over the bike.
b. The e-start is awesome in a pinch or in a long day.
c. The low-rev tractor power of a 450 is great--just pulls hard w/o any crazy launch-off like a two stroke spinning up into the band.
d. No concerns with 60mph+ fire road runs where it would scare me of seizing a two stroke.
e. The suspension is awesome.
f. The brakes really grab and take a little time getting used to.
g. think the Huskys rival the KTMs for expense.
h. The 450 had way more power than I could reliably handle but it came on pretty easily and except for one situation where momentum threw me back and had me goose the throttle, the 450 didn't dish out any nasty surprises that would definitely have been on tap if I'd done the same thing on, say, my 400 KTM.
Good luck!!
Quotequote:Originally posted by tooclose racing
Dwight/Brian - I spotted a 150 XC in the classifieds and won't deny that a great argument can be made for putting one these in the garage. I've always been a small-bore racer (my MC5 is the first dirt bike larger than 175cc that I've ever raced off-road).
If you like small bores, you absolutely can not go wrong with either a KTM or Husky 150. I rode a bunch of the '10 models at the Tennessee ISDT race and that XC150 may not have been the fastest bike of the bunch but there is no doubt at all that it was by far the most fun to ride which is what is most important to me these days.
Brian
You know..I regret missing a Husky dealers demo ride that was held at Thunder Ridge up here in the Leatherstocking country just south of Unadilla. I really do need to swing my fairly short legs over a couple of these bikes in an off-road setting and see what the Real World "point and dab" is like in the tight stuff.
Thanks again for feedback, Poggers. No decisions yet, I'll keep window shopping for now.
When deciding between a KTM and a Husky don't forget there is a BIG difference in the dealer network, parts supply, and tech support between the two. KTM really has their stuff together in all those areas and they just don't break. Look at our team's record with the little KTM 150XC in the desert last year. We raced that bike over 1400 miles of mostly wide open with NO failures and NO losses including Vegas to Reno where it ran ALL day and a bit into the night. Both are good bikes but if you look at them both close you will see the details that KTM has worked out and Husky is still working on. My biased 2 cents worth-The KTM 150XC is the most fun I ever had on a modern bike and I would not hesitate to go that route again. I believe it might last forever in the woods.
On the modern 4 stroke. It is true that if you do all the maintenance that you will avoid a lot of problems with them but I am telling you that they will ALL eventually have BIG dollar failure down the road. Price at a shop what it costs to just do the valves and head which is a fairly minor failure from the valves wearing and they will even if you keep them adjusted right. They are designed at the end of the envelope and when the end comes it is either EXPENSIVE or VERY EXPENSIVE($800-$3000). It just depends on how catastrophic an incident. I would not go that route if I had to buy a USED one. You are begging trouble. If it was a New one and I kept it maybe 2-3 years and did not race it hard then it would be fine.
I share this advice not from a hear-say point of view but from the saddle racing and parts ordering for others that learned it the hard way.
Larry P
Dick Burleson sure raves about the KTM 150.( Of course, it would be the perfect compliment to my 300 and Larry has told me often what a fun and great bike it is to ride and race).
Bob, the only pure dirt bike I've ridden since selling my Penton and Husky back in 78 is my 2009 KTM 300. I was worried about the height of the bike at first(I'm only 5'8") but once I got riding again, it hasn't been an issue. I was amazed at the new bikes after 30 yrs. That KTM just floats over the rocks and roots where I ride and the power is easy for me to manage. I'm just a 50 year old trail rider and I enjoy that 300 2-stroke. My local KTM told me that he sells the smaller KTM 2-srokes as fast as he getS them. The big aspect of the 150 that appeals to me, particularly at age 50 and with the work injuries, etc that I've had over the last couple of years is its light weight. The lighter bikes are safer as we get older, at least in my opinion.
Now, I just need some additional funds...
I concure with Larry on the reliability and fun factor of the KTM 150XC. I actually owned a Honda 250X and it simply was not ever enough motorycycle for me even with a few top end mods I did to it. I entually sold it and settled on a KTM 300XC and would highly recommend this commonly called "three stroke".
I use the 300 to race/ride hard,technical stuff and also casual trail riding and it is by far to me the most useable fun bike for any application. I purchased it new in 2007 and it has many, many hard trouble free hours on it. I thought of selling it for the newer version 300 with electric start and contemplated the new 4 stroke KTM 350XC soon to be released but still find myself leaning towards just keeping the 07 300XC because it fits me like a glove and has been that good of a bike. It easy and cheap to maintain, starts easy every time regardless of the pridicamant I get myself into on the technical stuff. I equipped it with a Rekluse auto clutch and actually prefer that over electric start, that makes it so doesnt stall and can climb technical stuff way beyond my capabilities a gear higher (three stroke)!!
Tom Flores
72 Penton Berkshire
77 Penton GS6 250
07 KTM 300XC
bob, your not going to see spring until mid july up there. have a little snow? your better off looking for a snowmobile or dog sled.enjoy.
I held back at first, but I agree 100 percent with what Larry said about 250Fs and I would NEVER EVER buy a used one. Working at a Honda/Yamaha/Kawasaki dealership I regularly saw $2500-3000 repair bills for blown up 250Fs. No thanks.
Bob, Yamaha still makes both the 125 and 250 two stroke YZs, they are the only Japanese company that did not stop selling them.
Brian
I was kinda shocked to find out what kind of maint routine the new 4 stroke bikes require. My Brothers and friends that have newer 4-strokes, combine their top end work and get a discount for volume. Its still retty expensive though.
G
72 six-day
79 KTM MC80 250
there are no bad bikes any more, husky,ktm have both come a longway. if you get a chance try the gas gas 200 a very good bike.ihave a 250 enduro
dennis l.brown
I have to agree with Dennis, they are all good if they suit your purpose. I have done no maintenance to my "08" Husky 4 stroke except change oil 2x a year and had the valves set once in 3 years. Runs like a top! Hall's has everything for a Husky in stock if you need it. I went the Husky route as they are still owned by Europeans (personal choice)
Husky 125/150 Like Dwight says. I have an older 125WR and it is a great bike.
Here is more information regarding 4 stroke VS 2 stroke. Intersting information on the topic and how politics determine the direction of motorcycles.
http://articles.superhunky.com/4/106
Tony
Go 2 Stroke! here's a thought, there's a 97 1/2 Jackpiner on EBAY starting at 3995.00 I have one and it's Awesome. I cant afford another due to 35 plus bikes[ yes I have a problem ], My 2011 xc 250 is my new favorite, mostly becuase it shares innovative features with the JP. The 97 Piner is now in my livingroom in AK, my lady doesn't mind, it's that cool! Also a POG member should own the one on ebay, it's complete with all the goodies. good luck in your search. Brian
3] 73piners
76 mc5
77 AW250 Maico
2] Falta 250
77 YZ400
3] KDX 220
97.5 Jackpiner
5] KTMs
list goes on and on
06 xc450- for sale