Who has the most influence in making the site selection for the ISDTRR?
I understand the 2012 will be at the Zink Ranch, outside of Tulsa. I've ridden there before and it's outstanding! My question is about the 2013 ISDTRR. Wouldn't it be great to hold it in Dalton, MA again? I rode the 2003 ISDTRR there, marking the 30th Anniversary of the 48th ISDT and think it would be great to hold the 2013 ISDTRR there too, marking the 40th Anniversary of the 48th ISDT.
To early to lobby?
Steve Minor
Wilmington, NC
Steve,
Your feelings coincide with those of many others for 2013. The areas that were used for riding in that area in 2003 are not near as available as they once were, to put it mildly. Efforts are being made to host an event in 2013 that will give proper due to the historic anniversary and location of the 1973 ISDT.
Paul
Never to early. I would get with the AHRMA CC or Off Road guys for a start. Director of Off-Road Competition is Fred Guidi (
[email protected]) & the National Cross Country Coordinator is Teddy Landers (
[email protected]). Jeff Debell or Dave Lamberth may have some good insite of this issue too. Go to this AHRMA site for more contact information: http://dev.ahrma.org/?page_id=120
I believe Arkansas has been the location because few clubs would step up to the plate. But also Mr. Leroy Winters. The ride is in his memory, and Arkansas was his home stomping grounds. It takes more than picking a site. You know what they say; location, location, location. I think a major concern is having land that "fits" the spirit of the ISDT. Don't ask me to define that though. Most of the time an ISDT had very demanding terrain & Arkansas certainly fills that requirement! Again, the two biggies are: Quality land has to be available AND you need a dedicated club to put together all the details. Some local cubs won't touch it unless they can make a buck off it but often it comes down to a scheduling conflict or just not having the club resources to take on the event. You would think clubs would be standing in line to have the chance to get this event.
Pete Petrick
175 Jackpiner
Slow but Good
I am located in McArthur, Ohio where the 09 reunion ride was held. I would def like to see it come back here. I am a member of the club that also hosted the ride that year. I could almost bet that we would be up to the task again!
2007 KTM 525
1983 KTM 495
1983 YAMAHA IT250
1984 YAMAHA IT200
1976 SUZUKI RM370
1986 HONDA Z50 My first bike
Hope to add a PENTON soon!
I'd like it in Ohio again. That's a reasonable drive for East Coast guys.
Lew Mayer
I would like to see it in Ohio again, and I am sure that the problems with the banquet meal would not be repeated. Steve Barber helped put on a very good event there just this past October 8-9th. Mike
Michael R. Winter
I enjoy rebuilding and appreciating Pentons!
1974 250 HS Pentons-1980 KTM 175-400'S
1975 Can Am 175 TNT & 77 250 Black Widow
1979 Husqvarna OR390
1976-78 RM & 77-79 PE Suzuki's
1974 CR250M 07 CR125R 79 CR250R
Ditto for Ohio. Loved the terrain there.
If they have it there again, My 77 year old dad would come ride.
and he would probably bring a few buddies along as well.
Bob
1986 ISDE Italy
1987 ISDE Poland
1989 ISDE Germany
1970 125 Six Day
1973 100 Berkshire
1973 Jackpiner 175
1974 Penton 250 Harescrambler
1976 Husky 250CR
1985 Husky 400WRX
1985 Husky 400WR
The Ohio tests were nice, but there was WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too much droning along on roads. I would not be inclined to go back if it remained mostly paved roads with a few miles of trails.
Brian
Hello All,
In my opinion where ever the 2013 event is held it will be a task to make everyone happy! The responses I read here have merit but to complain about the shortage of food at the banquet or the amount of road in between test during to 2009 Reunion Ride just shows how much the ride really meant to those individuals. Im sure if you asked the promoter (Club)they would have answers (Larger than expected turnout?) The time and location plays such a huge part of the ride and since most of the events have been on the east coast where the sun goes down fast in the fall which makes the decision even more difficult. The two most important things about the Reunion Ride are "Memory & Camaraderie"
I appreciate everything that the AMA,Penton Owners Group,AHRMA and all the orginizations have done for the sport!
Thank you,
Mike Scholl
i for one would like to see one out west! trask mt.
dennis l.brown
Mapquest says 17 hours and change from tucson to tulsa sounds like about 14 hours to me.Hope to drive to this one next year.
Ric.
I just want to clarify, I understand the land access issues the club at Ohio in '09 had and I think they did a great job, my comment was not meant to slight them or the effort they put out to host the '09 race. Their event ran flawlessly and the tests themselves were the best of any year Reunion Ride I've been too, but I am far from the only one that commented that weekend on the VERY long stretches of paved roads.
Brian
I am responsible for some of the trail being removed and I would make the same decision over again if needed. It had rained very hard and a very nice trail section had a rather steep and clayish downhill at the beginning of it, in the pre-ride after the heavy rain the downhill looked as though it would be treacherous for the occasion rider, you guys who ride all the time would have been fine, but we have a very wide range of abilities and machinery to accommodate at the ISDTRR events. The concern was someone locking up their front wheel and going over the bars and possibly suffering not only an event ending injury, but possibly a riding career ending injury. Making these decisions is never easy, in my early days of being involved with these events Dick Mann spoke at great length at how things should be done and the criteria that he would use to make his decisions, so far I think he was pretty much spot on. There are and always will be comments and complaints, but for us that is part of the game and your input is used to help with future decisions. When I prerode much of the event a few weeks ahead of time with Steve Barber it was fine, the heavy rain and southern Ohio clay just made it a little to risky, in my opinion. Should I have seen this possible scenario in the pre-ride with Steve, possibly, but I did not.
When the event wrapped up I am almost positive that we had no injuries, from where I stand that is very, very important.
We seem to have less of the older machines competing, is it because of less interest in the early vintage and premier machines, or is it because the trails are a bit tougher? That is a fine line question that is constantly looked at, any thoughts?
Steve Barber and his club did an outstanding job and we hope to be back at that location in the future.
Thanks,
Paul
Paul, and others....Please understand this is only my opinion but I feel the ISDTRR should be more of a "fun ride" than a super technical ride. Sure it's fun to test your skills and the ISDTRR should do that, but only to a certain degree. It was once explained to me, "the ISDTRR is an event for 50 year old riders on 30 year old bikes". That was a number of years ago, but I don't believe the "spirit" of the event has changed. I say make it enough fun that you'll think about it all year, and can't wait to do it again.
Like I always say, "The older I get, the better I was".
Steve Minor
Wilmington, NC
Quotequote:Originally posted by Steve Minor
Paul, and others....Please understand this is only my opinion but I feel the ISDTRR should be more of a "fun ride" than a super technical ride. Sure it's fun to test your skills and the ISDTRR should do that, but only to a certain degree. It was once explained to me, "the ISDTRR is an event for 50 year old riders on 30 year old bikes". That was a number of years ago, but I don't believe the "spirit" of the event has changed. I say make it enough fun that you'll think about it all year, and can't wait to do it again.
Like I always say, "The older I get, the better I was".
Steve Minor
Wilmington, NC
Agreed. Although personally I like a challenging ride, when it comes to the ISDTRR; it's also about fun and as said earlier "Memory & Camaraderie". You could be bike-less all weekend and still have a great time watching, chatting and just taking in the event. Many guys I've seen are not there for a competition shootout but rather the celebration of the event.
That's not to say that there cannot be a level of competition (after all, let's remember this is a points paying event). That competition may be how willing you are to twist the throttle (your decision) as opposed to getting into a terrain condition that is above your ability (sometimes not so much your decision). I felt like the Combs event was one that anyone could survive as long as they knew their limits and how to use their brakes.
You know it might be fun to have the October POG meeting on the Friday night after impound, for us guys who don't get up to Ohio-ville to often.
Pete Petrick
175 Jackpiner
Slow but Good
Quotequote:Originally posted by brian kirby
The Ohio tests were nice, but there was WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too much droning along on roads. I would not be inclined to go back if it remained mostly paved roads with a few miles of trails.
Brian
I thought the Ohio event was great. Even with the few paved miles. It wasn't that much pavement. I would attend in a heartbeat.
Dwight
Quotequote:Originally posted by brian kirby
I just want to clarify, I understand the land access issues the club at Ohio in '09 had and I think they did a great job, my comment was not meant to slight them or the effort they put out to host the '09 race. Their event ran flawlessly and the tests themselves were the best of any year Reunion Ride I've been too, but I am far from the only one that commented that weekend on the VERY long stretches of paved roads.
Brian
Actually Brian, You are the ONLY one I have heard complain about Ohio. The only realistic complaint is that of the Banquet supper. I don't mind dirt roads at all if they add milage. I want to ride longer than 40 miles.
LOTS of easy trails and dirt roads are the ticket for a successful vintage enduro. I think Ohio was fun. I think both Arkansas events are fun. Park Hills is fun if it isn't raining.
I just want more seat time than a few miles of modern type enduro trail. 1970s enduros had lots of dirt roads and logging roads as does any ISDT and ISDE event in Europe.
Quotequote:Originally posted by Dwight Rudder
Actually Brian, You are the ONLY one I have heard complain about Ohio. The only realistic complaint is that of the Banquet supper. I don't mind dirt roads at all if they add milage. I want to ride longer than 40 miles.
First of all, it was not a complaint, and I already said I understood WHY there were lots of roads at Ohio. If I had been in the club's and Paul's position I would have made the same decision they did and cut out those trails for safety. Every person I have ever talked to about laying out trails for AHRMA races I tell them "Cater to the Novices and the older bikes. The Experts and newer bikes will just go faster, but if its so hard the Novices cant make it or the guys on Premier bikes destroy their bikes they wont come back.".
Second, I heard many comment (not complain) about the amount of road miles. Most notable was Speedy, who I'm paraphrasing because it was over 2 years ago and I dont remember the exact words but it was something like, "I have the wrong tires, I should have had slicks.".
I think I am going to stop commenting here except on purely technical topics, its too easy to hurt someone's feelings.
Brian
Quotequote:Originally posted by brian kirby
I think I am going to stop commenting here except on purely technical topics, its too easy to hurt someone's feelings.
Brian
Brian, Your take on all topics, is very welcome by me. I appreciate, and respect your presence here. Don't go change'n - keep on keeping on. Thanks.
Bob
The fun ride that I attended at the same location on October 8-9 had 100 miles each day, and although I was not able to finish the ride due to mechanical problems followed by burying my bike up to the frame at a creek crossing and hiking out, mostly because of the mechanical issue, I enjoyed the trails and portions that I did manage to ride. This particular ride was actually more suited for modern bikes, which there was plenty of in attendance, with only a handful of Post Vintage bikes there.
I spoke to an individual who was going to allow the club access to some of his 600 acres for future events, so the amount of wooded riding area and varying terrain is almost unlimited in the area. Mike
Michael R. Winter
I enjoy rebuilding and appreciating Pentons!
1974 250 HS Pentons-1980 KTM 175-400'S
1975 Can Am 175 TNT & 77 250 Black Widow
1979 Husqvarna OR390
1976-78 RM & 77-79 PE Suzuki's
1974 CR250M 07 CR125R 79 CR250R
FOR ME. Back in the day when longer travel bikes appeared on the racing scene (1976/77) - things got way more serious, and the fun kinda diminished. I will always prefer riding '1970 /'75 machines, with 7" / 4" of travel.
The only reason I responded is that I did not want anyone to feel that the club was responsible for the extra road miles, pretty hard to hurt my feelings :)
Thanks,
Paul
Quotequote:Originally posted by Dwight Rudder
LOTS of easy trails and dirt roads are the ticket for a successful vintage enduro. I think Ohio was fun. I think both Arkansas events are fun. Park Hills is fun if it isn't raining.
I just want more seat time than a few miles of modern type enduro trail. 1970s enduros had lots of dirt roads and logging roads as does any ISDT and ISDE event in Europe.
I loved Park Hills, even with a little bit of rain. I would like to see it be there again.
Rocket
It is hard to put on an event that suits everyone. Maybe some thought could be put toward having A and B sections where riders choose their "amount of trail" they want to ride. I for one like more trail and more mileage and is the main reason I don't travel to ARK to ride. 3-4 hours total ride time for 20-24 hours drive time makes no sense to me. Lack of land in Ohio was not reason as Paul pointed out. Having laid out many enduros in Ohio over the years I do find it strange that a single downhill could not have been routed around without tossing out all that trail and special test. Steve puts on GREAT events and I for one trust his judgement totally. In my opinion I think the ISDTRR should be moved around a lot more than it is to allow riders from all over the US to ride. Carolinas, New England, MO, MS, OR, WA etc..... Never did understand the AR thing. Not meant to be a slight to those clubs, just the same area of country all the time! ? Steve, how about another vintage enduro in 2012? Spring/Fall? I'll help.
Ted Atkinson
I have fond memories of Park Hills. Like the ISDTRR in 2001:It was 22 degrees that November morning. My worn out YZ250 was running a little crisp. 1st gear was too tall for the woods/hills and 5th was too short for the flat straight aways, but in between it done me good. Later years I was glad to be sporting my Penton to carry me faithfully through the ruts and mud!;)
(http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/2230/01isdt.jpg)
Pete Petrick
175 Jackpiner
Slow but Good
Probably the single most significant factor influencing site selection is the availabiltiy/willingness of a knowledgeable organization to put on the event.
Ed
Keep the rubber side down!
This looks like some nice scenic terrain :) Note the strange flashing bushes.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYOhS4-eOz0
Dale Fisher
POG Membership
74 Berkshire 100
70 Six-Days 125
72 Jackpiner 175
I think we can all agree there are great places to ride all over the US and each of us has a favorite. But when I suggested Dalton, MA as the 2013 ISDTRR site, I wasn't thinking about terrain or topography, or paved roads vs fire roads vs dirt roads, or degree of difficulty. I was thinking about the "spirit" of the event. The 48th ISDT was held in Dalton, MA in 1973 and I thought it would be appropriate to hold the 2013 ISDTRR there, marking the 40th anniversary, just as the 2003 ISDTRR in Dalton marked the 30th. I think anybody who rode the 2003 ISDTRR will agree it was a blast!
I'll shut up now....
Steve Minor
Wilmington, NC
Quotequote:Originally posted by rob w
FOR ME. Back in the day when longer travel bikes appeared on the racing scene (1976/77) - things got way more serious, and the fun kinda diminished. I will always prefer riding '1970 /'75 machines, with 7" / 4" of travel.
Mike sorry about the sinking!!!:D:D:D:D
2007 KTM 525
1983 KTM 495
1983 YAMAHA IT250
1984 YAMAHA IT200
1976 SUZUKI RM370
1986 HONDA Z50 My first bike
Hope to add a PENTON soon!
I couldn't agree with you more! If it can't be there, then it should be somewhere close. James
Quotequote:Originally posted by Steve Minor
I think we can all agree there are great places to ride all over the US and each of us has a favorite. But when I suggested Dalton, MA as the 2013 ISDTRR site, I wasn't thinking about terrain or topography, or paved roads vs fire roads vs dirt roads, or degree of difficulty. I was thinking about the "spirit" of the event. The 48th ISDT was held in Dalton, MA in 1973 and I thought it would be appropriate to hold the 2013 ISDTRR there, marking the 40th anniversary, just as the 2003 ISDTRR in Dalton marked the 30th. I think anybody who rode the 2003 ISDTRR will agree it was a blast!
I'll shut up now....
Steve Minor
Wilmington, NC
1976 MC 5 Original Owner
1980 KTM GS
1982 Suzuki PE 175
1976 Husqvarna 175GP
2002 KTM 200 EXC
1975 Jackpiner (project)
1976 Penton 175 GS (project)
+1
Quotequote:Originally posted by skiracer
I couldn't agree with you more! If it can't be there, then it should be somewhere close. James
Quotequote:Originally posted by Steve Minor
I think we can all agree there are great places to ride all over the US and each of us has a favorite. But when I suggested Dalton, MA as the 2013 ISDTRR site, I wasn't thinking about terrain or topography, or paved roads vs fire roads vs dirt roads, or degree of difficulty. I was thinking about the "spirit" of the event. The 48th ISDT was held in Dalton, MA in 1973 and I thought it would be appropriate to hold the 2013 ISDTRR there, marking the 40th anniversary, just as the 2003 ISDTRR in Dalton marked the 30th. I think anybody who rode the 2003 ISDTRR will agree it was a blast!
I'll shut up now....
Steve Minor
Wilmington, NC
1976 MC 5 Original Owner
1980 KTM GS
1982 Suzuki PE 175
1976 Husqvarna 175GP
2002 KTM 200 EXC
1975 Jackpiner (project)
1976 Penton 175 GS (project)
2007 KTM 525
1983 KTM 495
1983 YAMAHA IT250
1984 YAMAHA IT200
1976 SUZUKI RM370
1986 HONDA Z50 My first bike
Hope to add a PENTON soon!
Quotequote:Originally posted by t20sl
It is hard to put on an event that suits everyone. Maybe some thought could be put toward having A and B sections where riders choose their "amount of trail" they want to ride. I for one like more trail and more mileage and is the main reason I don't travel to ARK to ride. 3-4 hours total ride time for 20-24 hours drive time makes no sense to me. Lack of land in Ohio was not reason as Paul pointed out. Having laid out many enduros in Ohio over the years I do find it strange that a single downhill could not have been routed around without tossing out all that trail and special test. Steve puts on GREAT events and I for one trust his judgement totally. In my opinion I think the ISDTRR should be moved around a lot more than it is to allow riders from all over the US to ride. Carolinas, New England, MO, MS, OR, WA etc..... Never did understand the AR thing. Not meant to be a slight to those clubs, just the same area of country all the time! ? Steve, how about another vintage enduro in 2012? Spring/Fall? I'll help.
Ted Atkinson
As most of you know I have competet for years in Europ,s Vintage events.There it is common to have on Section A (= difficuld)to use section B(=easier)for sidecars and riders who do not feel to tackle the hard ones .This riders become a time penalty for each bypass.Sidecars and People over 60 can bypass without any penalty.
Works great and everybody likes it.
(http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/1487/isny05daytwo231.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/828/isny05daytwo231.jpg/)
See them smiling?They took the detour....:)
(http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/1400/isny05guentersbilder004.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/593/isny05guentersbilder004.jpg/)
He probably said:I should have taken the detour.:D