Penton Owners Group

Here is my new project to start next year.Not sure if there are any others in Australia and this is the closest I have been to one. Hopefully I get some help from some fellow enthusiasts with the restoration. I am extremely pleased with the purchase.
Bill

(http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g356/ozktm151/P6090683.jpg)
(http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g356/ozktm151/P6090682.jpg)
(http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g356/ozktm151/P6090684.jpg?t=1339215390)
(http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g356/ozktm151/P6090685.jpg)

Bill, hi,

great score !!!

i have to agree with you, the Penton Steel Tankers have to be a very rare find in Au.

Parmabike from Ebay has the seat and fenders you will need for your resto, looks like your bike has most of the small parts in place !!

it will be a beautiful bike when restored :-))))

here is a pic of my V1646, only 29 builds before yours, they appear to have most of the same components,

good luck with your resto !!!

(http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss114/checkcrew/69Penton125SteelTanker002.jpg)

here is another shot with some of the Enduro goodies i have gathered,
also V1346 in the background of my display area :-))))

(http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss114/checkcrew/PentonV-1646001.jpg)


Mike Gallagher, NJ.
[email protected]

Mike,
Great looking bike! Why is the rear fender sticking up in the back so far? Is the rear fender loop bent up?

Donny Smith
Paragould, AR

Donny,

i agree with you it seems to be bent up, i will have to jack it down level with the rest of the frame,

thank you for the compliment :-))))

regards,

Mike Gallagher, NJ.
[email protected]

Thanks for the tip Mike. I checked out parmabike on ebay but there was no seat.Does anybody have a spare one out there that would look great on my Penton.I'm also not sure on what type of fender to get. Should I get aluminium or steel? hope my Penton will lokkas good as yours when finished Mike. Cheers Bill

Bill,

look in Parmabike's Ebay store, he usually has the seat and fenders { fenders are alum. } in his buy-it-now section,
if you still don't see them email him { his name is Roberto } and he will take care of you,
tell him you are a POG member and he will give you a discount !!!
he has the chain guard and handle bars as well,

good luck,

Mike Gallagher, NJ.
[email protected]

Bill, I also sent you a message through the POG mail system with some alternative contact information for Roberto.  See bookmark below for link to his Ebay store for a complete list of items.  Some items may drop off and take time to be re-listed and the out of stock items sometimes taking months for replenishment from his supplier.

http://stores.ebay.com/Vintage-Moto-Parts/Penton-KTM-/_i.html?rt=nc&_fsub=13069378&_sid=58391566&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1513&_pgn=1

Dale Fisher
Penton Owners Group - Memberships
Facebook - Cheney Twinshock Owners Group - Administrator
74 Berkshire 100
70 Six-Days 125
73 Jackpiner 175
And some silly other bikes...

Thanks Dale. I will check those addresses that you sent. Cheers Bill

Seats are back [8)]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1968-Penton-Steel-Tank-SHORT-SEAT-KTM-Saddle-Cover-Pan-Six-Day-Berkshire-MC-ISDT-/271096965539?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f1ea369a3&vxp=mtr

Dale Fisher
Penton Owners Group - Memberships
Facebook - Cheney Twinshock Racing Group - Administrator
70 Six-Days
71 Six-Days (Brother Dave's)
73 Jackpiner
74 Berkshire
And some silly other bikes...

I'am doing a early 69 ST as well; parma's seat is a far cry from the OEM look. I'am going to try and get some covers made that match OEM ( like Mike's ). Some short seats on the early ST's are somewhat flat on the top and had a smooth top on the cover ?[?]

I found v 54 this week, now I just need to find some other Sachs stuff to barter with.

Thanks Dale for keeping an eye out. I had emailed Roberto about ST seats of which he had none at the time. I am not sure what the seat for my bike should be but have my mind set on a long seat. If nothing shows up in the next year i guess I would have to try and construct my own from photos and POG help. Mr GD please keep me informed on your seat covers. I would be interested if they are the long version. Happy voting. Cheers Bill

Note the mounts on the bottom of the seat pan.  Your frame would have had the short seat.  Long seats started appearing in 1970 after the short ones were used up (as in my #2017).

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1970s-VINTAGE-PENTON-SIX-DAY-125-STEELTANKER-SHORT-SEAT-EX-RESTO-71-03-/261067731967?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cc8d973ff&vxp=mtr

Dale Fisher
Penton Owners Group - Memberships
Facebook - Cheney Twinshock Racing Group - Administrator
70 Six-Days
71 Six-Days (Brother Dave's)
73 Jackpiner
74 Berkshire
And some silly other bikes...

Bill,

Dale is correct, your bike has to have the short seat like the one on my bike,
the one that Parmabike has F/S is not that bad, looks a little high in the foam, this could be cut down to the correct height "IMO"
take your time you have a good base bike to work with :-))

regards,

Mike Gallagher, NJ.
[email protected]

here is a photo of my V1346 Berkshire, i had a new seat cover and foam done local to me here in NJ, this cover was the smooth top as LG describes, my V1646 has it's origional pleated top cover still in place as shown,
LG i still have the origional cover from my V1346 that could be used for a pattern ??

(http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss114/checkcrew/69PentonBerkshireV-1346002.jpg)

Quotequote:Originally posted by gooddirt

I'am doing a early 69 ST as well; parma's seat is a far cry from the OEM look. I'am going to try and get some covers made that match OEM ( like Mike's ). Some short seats on the early ST's are somewhat flat on the top and had a smooth top on the cover ?[?]

Mike Gallagher, NJ.
[email protected]

This was my original.

(http://i957.photobucket.com/albums/ae59/CheneySachs/Pentonseat001.jpg)

This was done by a little old mennonite in Ohio.  Pleats were sewn in to duplicate the original heat pressed.

(http://i957.photobucket.com/albums/ae59/CheneySachs/005-crop.jpg)

Dale Fisher
Penton Owners Group - Memberships
Facebook - Cheney Twinshock Racing Group - Administrator
70 Six-Days
71 Six-Days (Brother Dave's)
73 Jackpiner
74 Berkshire
And some silly other bikes...

Thanks guys for the heads up. I don't know where I got the idea it had to be a long seat. It must have been my post 75 brain at work. A short seat would definitely make it different to my other bikes. Once again thanks - the photos are brilliant and great for future reference. Cheers Bill

Greetings all. This is a very helpful thread. I'm about to take my seat out for it's redo. and this is kind of a sanity check with you guys beforehand.
 V416 is the short seat w/alum. pan. ala checkcrew's v1646 and Dale Fisher's bike shown here in the pics.
 I could swear mine was a smooth seat though, and if I understand correctly both were used. If so, I'd go with the smooth.
 I'm going to print these pics to take to the upholsterer for a panel/stitch example.
 I was just wondering if I've got everything covered (no pun intended) before I make that move so I thought I'd run it past you guys for anything I may be missing. 'Collective thoughts?   Fred

V416 OneMoreTime

I ended up doing the smooth type /flatter foam that the early ST had.  This seat type can be seen on  various photos. Shaped my own foam from a  blank and used a belt sander .

Thanks Gooddirt, that's pretty much the pat on the head I was looking for. The seat on Mike's Berkshire is the way I remember mine from all those years ago. I know it was flat on top as opposed to the pic of the original ribbed seat in the prior post. Also, I didn't recall their being a seam running around the whole top. To support that further, the one old poor picture I have of V416 from back around '71 shows where I'd duct taped a split at the rear corner/side, right where that diagonal seam would have been.
 I'm probably making a bit too much of this kind of thing but I'm trying go get it as close as I can to original. It'll cost the same $ to get it wrong.
 Thanks again. I hope to see the Upholsterer today and maybe get this detail in process.  Cheers...,  Fred


V416 OneMoreTime

I have just seen some new aluminium fenders on Parmabike's website that he says are for 71 to 73 Pentons. Are these the same for my 69 steel tanker and if not what are the differences? Cheers

No, the rear fender is too short.  This set is for the CMF framed bikes.  Take a good look at the measurements.  Since mine came with no fenders to measure off I purchased a set from Roberto only to be disappointed.  They are now tucked away for one of my other bikes ;)

Dale Fisher
Penton Owners Group - Memberships
Facebook - Cheney Twinshock Racing Group - Administrator

'70 Six-Day 125 - V2017
'71 Six-Day 125 (Dave Fisher's) - V5553
'72 Mudlark - W257
'73 Jackpiner - 175 21159727
'74 Berkshire 100 - 40171056
And some silly other bikes...

Thanks Dale

Have started to to pull down my Penton. The engine is out of the frame and I have the head off. The barrel will not move after some gentle taps with a wooden mallet. I am worried about breaking the cast iron fins so I am asking for a safe method to get the barrel off. Bore looks pretty good considering and piston moves freely.Just another question of many to come. Thanks in advance
Bill

Bill, if the piston is seized and preventing the cylinder from coming off, put your favorite penetrating oil in the top and be patient.  I think I read someplace that a 50/50 mix of acetone (nail polish remover) and ATF works better than the commercial offerings like Liquid Wrench, Aerokroil, etc., but the main point is to be patient and let the stuff work its way down.  I had a 500 Yankee that was seized like that and I put oil in every night and gave the pistons a few taps with a wooden drift.  It took over a week, but they finally came loose.

Jeff DeBell

Forgot to mention that diesel fuel also works very well for this application.  Figured I'd better add that one in before Onkel Speedy Clasen scolded me for forgetting it :)

Jeff DeBell

Oops, should have read your post a bit closer...did not realize the piston was not stuck.  You can still try drizzling penetrant around the cylinder/case junction to help free it up as well as down the cylinder stud holes.

Jeff DeBell

The base gasket is probably glueing the cylinder down. Take a putty knife that is sharpened to a sharp edge and run it around the base joint, just below the cylinder. let some penetrating oil work it's way down the cylinder studs also. Like Jeff said, patience is the key here. A lt of gentle force over a period of time is better that just wailing on it with a hammer. In thinking about it, it may be some rust on the cylinder studs bonding and binding with the holes in the cylinder. Lots of oil, and maybe even some heat from a small torch or hear gun to let things expand and contract to help break it loose. Add in the putty knife action as you go. That will put some upward pressure on everything to help break it loose. Remember, slow and easy and patience is the key!
  Good luck and have fun,
   Dan McEntee

Thanks again guys. Have soaked the barrel a bit but leave for a two week holiday. Will see how it goes when I get back. Holiday includes a vinduro on either my Hare Scrambler or MC5 next weekend.

Hi guys.Roberto has got some more aluminium fenders with a pair for steel tankers at $299.Are these ok for my Penton. Cheers Bill

Bill,

email Roberto and ask him to give you the total length of the rear fenders, if the one posted for the S/T is a good bit longer it should work,
let us know,

regards,

Mike Gallagher, NJ.
[email protected]

The last listing I looked at included the measurements.  I only glanced but they looked appropriate.  Note that you can contact him directly via email and receive a member discount and save on the pricing.   http://www.ebay.com/itm/1968-1971-Penton-MC-GS-100-125-Six-Day-ALUMINUM-FRONT-REAR-FENDER-KTM-MUD-GUARD-/271253724165?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f27fb5c05&vxp=mtr

[email protected] or [email protected]

Dale Fisher
Penton Owners Group - Memberships
Facebook - Cheney Twinshock Racing Group - Administrator

'70 Six-Day 125 - V2017
'71 Six-Day 125 (Dave Fisher's) - V5553
'72 Mudlark - W257
'73 Jackpiner - 175 21159727
'74 Berkshire 100 - 40171056
And some silly other bikes...

I now have the frame all stripped down. It took awhile to get the tank rubbers out of the frame as I had to improvise with pullers.Swingarm bolt was rusted in but eventually got it out.I have got the barrel off the motor. Piston is soso bore sort of rusty and the head has been pocked by blown rings or bearings before the piston was put in. Forks are seized in their sliders but that is a problem to be tackled further down the track. Next is to split the motor and learn about the gearbox etc. Looking forward to it.

Is the bracket on the swingarm for the chain guard straight or does it have a slight bend in it? Cheers

The three swingarms that I have all have the bend , when the chain guard is bolted on it will flex to clear the tire ; as there is not much clearance for the tire.

Thanks GD

I am now ready to powdercoat the frame etc. I know there have been references to paint colours/codes in other topics but can somebody tell me what they think is the closest powder coat colour to use. If there is one readily available can you please tell me how I can get some shipped to Australia. ps just got a 400 MC5 to restore. Not sure which way to look in the shed at the moment. Oh the dilemma!

Finally after 3 years I am recommencing the resto.Now comes all the silly questions starting with.. I need a new big end pin and Al B says he doesn't have any. Is there another pin eg Wiseco that I can use even if the ends need to be ground down. The other question is I am after some stainless steel spokes for the ST. Can somebody tell me if they are available and from whom. Cheers Bill

Bill,

I found a 54.5 tapered crank pin for the Sachs "A" engine. I have sent you and e-mail confirming this and have it on reserve for you.

Alan Buehner

Hi. What can you guys tell me about the DCPlastics Steel Tanker seat base. Is it reasonable

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1968-71-Penton-Sachs-DKW-KTM-v-3778-Steel-Tank-Model-Seat-Saddle-Cover-/352160060809?hash=item51fe601589:g:TXkAAOSwb3NZr2lG&vxp=mtr    Here might be a better option.

The first new stages have taken place. I have got the tank repainted etc. Its more than ok but not perfect. That's what you get with people who are not experienced with old bikes I guess. The other stage is getting the new crank put in. This has been done where a new steel rod has replaced an old alloy one. Al B supplied me with the correct length pin as well as the oversize B pin. When the new rod was pressed together it was found that the new correct length pin was a loose fit in the lobes that would not survive if the motor was reassembled and operated. Has anybody came across this situation and if so what was their remedy. Do I just buy another crank and try again? The person doing the rod reassembly is experienced in this procedure with a wide variety of motors. His suggestion is to TIG spot weld the pin to the lobes. He has done this in racing jet ski engines and found it to work successfully. I know this is an almost last resort fix. Bear in mind I want the motor to last but the bike won't be ridden in anger. Thanks in advance for your inputs.

Okay, time to tackle the frame. My frame appears to have taken a serious hit to one side. The middle of the seat locating crosspiece does not line up with the centreline of the backbone which I am assuming is the result of a side on hit that has bent the wishbone. The reason I am stating the obvious is the wishbone appears to have been manufactured about 10 mm out in the vertical plane and so was there some inherent misalignment in the manufacture of the frames from time to time. I will try to straighten the frame out as best as I can but I am curious about the misalignments in both the vertical and horizontal planes.

Okay, time to tackle the frame. My frame appears to have taken a serious hit to one side. The middle of the seat locating crosspiece does not line up with the centreline of the backbone which I am assuming is the result of a side on hit that has bent the wishbone. The reason I am stating the obvious is the wishbone appears to have been manufactured about 10 mm out in the vertical plane and so was there some inherent misalignment in the manufacture of the frames from time to time. I will try to straighten the frame out as best as I can but I am curious about the misalignments in both the vertical and horizontal planes.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/mDT4vGvX1uxke1HYA
Finally have got the frame painted. I am having fun with the forks but Al B is helping me out with some too tired parts. I have assembled the wheels and the tank has been painted. Bottom end of the motor is together and will get barrel bored soon. Finally getting somewhere. Hope you can see the picks. Can somebody please direct me to a place that would sell a Twin Air filter for the bike and I am also after a chain guard for it. I'm not the best searcher but I have not seen one on parmabike or Provenance.Bill

https://photos.app.goo.gl/mDT4vGvX1uxke1HYA
Finally have got the frame painted. I am having fun with the forks but Al B is helping me out with some too tired parts. I have assembled the wheels and the tank has been painted. Bottom end of the motor is together and will get barrel bored soon. Finally getting somewhere. Hope you can see the picks. Can somebody please direct me to a place that would sell a Twin Air filter for the bike and I am also after a chain guard for it. I'm not the best searcher but I have not seen one on parmabike or Provenance.Bill

Progressing slowly. I keep sending a final parts order to AB only to find I have misplaced some parts or need new ones anyway. Probably another order to go Al next month. My question for this month is does anybody have a photo of how they have rigged a rear brake light switch to the rear brake system. There isn't a lot of frame near the brake lever so mounting appears to be a problem. I'm still looking for a chainguide. If anybody has one for sale i would consider buying it. If not, can someone supply me with a template so I can get one made here. Enjoy your spring as we will our autumn.  Bill

Hi Bill,


   This photo may help with your brake light switch . My enduro lights, switches and such are at the shop so I don't know if I have the one shown or not. I am thinking the switch shown came in the Steel Tanker enduro kit...if you need one of those I will surely take a look.
http://www.pentonusa.org/steeltank/regviews/steeltank41b.jpg


   I may be able to help with the chain guard. If you still need one let me know.

[email protected]

Paul

Hi guys. Just like to say that as of the 27th of October there is a running Steel Tanker in Australia. After 7 years I have managed to bring V1675 back to life.He,she or it did a couple of runs up and down our quiet little street on that Sunday afternoon with very few problems. The ST shifted well. Got one neutral but I blame the very short shift lever. Have to get a longer one. Rear brake pedal is too high. Needs an adjuster under the foot peg. Front brake needs fine tuning. I will get to that shortly. Carby overflows too much but didn't load the engine up. Sticky float? Needs more investigation. The experience was filmed but I haven't managed to get it to a media. Thanks go to all the people in Oz and the US for getting me parts etc that I needed. I think this is my most expensive restoration to date but I don't keep tabs on the money I have spent on any project so there are no problems with that. Now to get vintage registration so I can ride the bike to nearby vintage displays.
Cheers Bill

Congratulations as i know  you have been working on it for several years.


Ron Carbaugh

I have finally been able to take my ST out on the road for its first real test ride. Yes I did take AL B's advice and get the bike road registered. That's "regoed" here. That in itself was a journey with the best part being that the Penton brand is now on the New South Wales vehicle data base. Who would have thought that there were no Pentons ever registered in NSW.
Now the test ride. Put some more petrol in the tank but the bike had not been started for some months. I thought I'd give it a go as is rather than checking the carby for gelled petrol. Now at this point I should mention that I have previously noted that there is copious quantities of fuel running out of the tickler. I had previously checked the float needle and it did seem to shut off the fuel flow. I was living in hope that a bit of a ride might see this problem vibrate itself away. Not so it appear. The bike started and seemed to need an increase in idle but I managed not to stall it. Taking off the bike seemed to be under geared in first and second. Off I went heading for about a 8 km ride. After getting about a quarter of the way - about 5-8 minutes the ST locked up. I pulled the clutch in and got to the side of the road. Looking down I noticed that fuel was still pissing out from the tickler. It was almost a fountain. So much for my wishful thinking. The first thing I did was slowly kick the bike over which it would do. Trying to get fuel into the motor again I tried to start the bike but it would not fire up. i pulled the plug which was dry, a light brownish colour and not overly hot. In fact the motor was remarkably cool. Another attempt at starting got the bike going eventually. It did have a lot of fuel in the bottom end. I rode it home successfully with fuel with a very slow trickle of fuel coming out of the tickler. When I stopped the fountain returned.
Its now back to the drawing board for the carby. I will try to get a new float needle and check the float level. I have done this but perhaps I need to close the needle off before the float is parallel to  the carby floor.
I am running 13:60 for my gearing which is way too low. Al B has 57, 52, 50 & 48 rear sprockets on his site. Which one should I purchase bearing in mind I will mainly use this bike for vintage m/c club day rides on the road.
Finally the bike was absolute fun to ride. It feels so small and cramped at first but after I got used to it I felt right at home. It's great to get on a short wheel based bike again. Hope I can iron the bugs out soon and get that Penton reliability back.
Cheers Bill