I was looking some old ISDT pictures (early 70's), and saw a small KTM decal on the side of the Penton gas tanks. What is the story with the decals? Did KTM insist on them for some advertising? At the time, I think KTM was selling the bikes in Europe under their name, weren't they? Thanks, Jl
James,
I have yet to see any photos of ISDT Steel Tank Pentons WITHOUT that KTM decal, including the ones that John Penton rode. I don't know if Mr. "T" from KTM insisted on them being placed on each ISDT machine, but I also can't envision Penton putting those KTM decals on without being prodded to do so, but that is just my opinion. Possibly Jack or his Dad might have that answer, I have made a note to ask that question at the next POG meeting.
That being said, I haven't noticed any of those decals on any of the CMF ISDT machines. Possibly some of you sharp eyed folks can help with this question
Hope this helps.
Paul
I think it depended on who actually supplied the bike. I have noticed that all KTMs in Europe were blue, and all the bikes the US team rode were blue because they rode bikes they were supplied with there instead of shipping US bikes back to Europe, except '73 in Dalton. The blue bikes ridden by US riders in Europe had large non-standard oval "Penton" decals over where the KTM would go. Other country riders on Penton/KTM at Dalton rode bikes colored by size because those bikes were supplied by Penton and not shipped over from Europe, but they had KTM decals over the Penton decal.
At least, that is what I have deduced from looking at photos, I have not heard any of that from someone who would know, although is seems like someone (maybe Jack?) told me thats how it worked with the bikes, and I figured out the decals.
Brian
Brian,
I have yet to see a Steel Tank Penton that was used in the ISDT that was blue, either in literature, mag write ups or Penton archive photos, USA or otherwise. I am not saying that someone at some time didn't have one, but it would have been the exception rather than the rule, from what I have observed, but I am always looking to learn something new :)
In the Jerry West photo collection is a beautiful photo of Itialian Arnaldo Farioli on his Steel Tank Penton at the 1969 ISDT, it has that same small KTM decal above the Penton Six-Day 125cc decal, and the tank is Green.
The blue USA ISDT Team color started with the CMF machines.
In the 1973 ISDT I had the large blue oval Penton U.S.A. decal on the tank in the knee indent area. My gut feeling is that all of the Team Penton machines had that same decal in that location as they paid attention to such details, but I would need to look at the photos to say for sure.
Our 1974 ISDT Pentons had the larger stripe tank decals that eliminated the need for the oval decals.
Interesting topic....what I have written is what I have seen or used, possibly you or others have seen different pictures and will have other details to add. I will make another note for the next POG meeting about tank colors :D
Paul
Yes Paul, I should have clarified I was talking about the CMF bikes. Not sure about the Steel Tankers. Is my story correct? Did you guys get supplied bikes from KTM when you raced there instead of ship bikes?
Brian
Brian,
Yes, for the Camerino, Italy ISDT KTM brought our bikes to the event by truck, and then they hauled them back at the conclusion. Unbeknownst to me, our ISDT machines were later shipped back to Lorain. I wish I had realized that as I would not have needed to wait for 35 years to luckily find my 1974 ISDT machine on eBay in Florida, but it ended well:)
At the time of those events not much thought was given to keeping those machines, later in life the sentimental value of one's ISDT machine starts increase. I am very lucky to have both of my ISDT machines.
Take care,
Paul
I always assumed that the US team bikes were blue not because it was our country color, but because all KTMs were blue in Europe, but I could be wrong about that.
Brian
I will be asking John and Jack that question....thanks for bringing it up.
In looking at the book, KTM by Friedrich F. Ehn, many of the Euro machines don't look to be blue, how did you come to the conclusion that they were?
Thanks,
Paul
Just from looking at random pictures, it seems many sizes of KTMs over there were blue, not just 175s.
Here are some I picked off the web:
(http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x348/kartwheel68/a20197420KTM20125-74.jpg)
(http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x348/kartwheel68/a20197720ktm2017520gs20202020h20202.jpg)
(http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x348/kartwheel68/19772020KTM20202020175GS20202020202.jpg)
(http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x348/kartwheel68/a20197320ktm2017520gs2020v.jpg)
(http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x348/kartwheel68/a2019752020ktm2050gs205.jpg)
(http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x348/kartwheel68/a2019752020ktm_125gs2020i.jpg)
(http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x348/kartwheel68/a20197720KTM202502020GS.jpg)
(http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x348/kartwheel68/197720KTM2025020gs202020io.jpg)
(http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x348/kartwheel68/a20197720KTM-400-GS-Bjb.jpg)
(http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x348/kartwheel68/197520KTM2012520mc20mx20f.jpg)
A bunch of different years and different sizes all blue. Yet, for every one of those, you can find another example that matches the US color/size scheme. I really dont know the answer, totally working on guess work.
Brian
Brian, your photographic examples of blue Penton/KTM all appear to be restorations. Who knows what color they really were? Does it matter? I will add comment that just like a serious antique collector - it is only original once and that is where the value is.
Ernie P.
Chattanooga, TN
Quotequote:Originally posted by Ernie Phillips
Brian, your photographic examples of blue Penton/KTM all appear to be restorations. Who knows what color they really were? Does it matter? I will add comment that just like a serious antique collector - it is only original once and that is where the value is.
Ernie P.
Chattanooga, TN
The value is in the eyes of the beholder. I value each and everyone I see. Skip
Skip Page
Tucson, AZ
//www.robertpagearchitect.com
photo #5 above, is that the other 50cc prototype, a bike someone put together on their own or did KTM build those in Europe????
Thanks Paul! Being that the bikes were supplied by KTM for the events, it would make sense that they would have their name on the bike also. Hope you have a merry Christmas! Jl
Quotequote:Originally posted by Paul Danik
James,
I have yet to see any photos of ISDT Steel Tank Pentons WITHOUT that KTM decal, including the ones that John Penton rode. I don't know if Mr. "T" from KTM insisted on them being placed on each ISDT machine, but I also can't envision Penton putting those KTM decals on without being prodded to do so, but that is just my opinion. Possibly Jack or his Dad might have that answer, I have made a note to ask that question at the next POG meeting.
That being said, I haven't noticed any of those decals on any of the CMF ISDT machines. Possibly some of you sharp eyed folks can help with this question
Hope this helps.
Paul
I have a photo of Jack Penton riding (a wheelie:)) on a CMF Penton in what I think is the 1971 ISDT with a KTM oval in the knee indent area of a toaster tank. Thanks Rob for the link to Andre Horvath's site! I have been looking for those stickers for a long time.
Mike Schulz
Plenty of red and white in addition to blue -- but lots of blue to be sure! Probably there is some green and certainly some rare yellow too!!!!
http://web.tiscalinet.it/ktm70pages/ann74-76.htm
Here is a green.
http://web.tiscali.it/ktm70/ann74-76.htm
Quotequote:Originally posted by marsattacks
Here are two greens. Maybe they are restorations but I think the original dealer/mfgr literature showed multiple colors.
http://web.tiscali.it/ktm70/ann74-76.htm
http://web.tiscali.it/ktm70/ann74-76.htm