Ok, so here goes a question that is somewhat obscure but interesting at least to me. We have discussed before the fact that, at the 1973 Dalton ISDT, Jack Penton apparently was on a bored out 1973 yellow tanked 250 and competed in the 350cc class.
How about this one? Stef Van Der Sluis (Netherlands) is listed as having competed in the 175cc class in at least two places in the Dalton book. A photo in that book shows him on a yellow tanked bike but unfortunately the image is cropped so that (at least for me) it is not possible to tell unequivocally that it is a 175cc as listed (with a yellow tank and side panels) or is a 250cc. One other reference available through a Google search suggests that Sluis rode a 250cc bike.
I will try to post up the photo. But all I can tell is that the brake rod on the Sluis bike appears to be at a different position than the brake rod of a Jackpiner that also is in the same photo. Otherwise both bikes appear to be the same, including the curvature of the pipe (the end of the Sluis bike is not visible as that would be too easy!!).
If the bike really was a 175 it would be nice to build a tribute for next year's RR!
Btw, the 175 in the photo shows a black case engine. But the brake is on the right side so I am assuming that it is a proper 73 model and realize that some 73s had black cases.
Thanks!!
Mars Attacks!
72 Jackpiner
72 Jackpiner-in-a-box
74 Harescrambler
68 Planetary/Lunar Lander (very sadly, sold with Gamma death-ray to the Italians)
78 400 MC5 also sadly sold
79 space rock shox bike
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c36/80fj40/marsattacks.jpg)
Mars Attacks,
In the official results from the 1973 ISDT, S.V. Sluis from Holland is listed as riding in the 175cc class on a KTM with the number 143, it lists him as finishing with a silver.
Can you provide the page numbers from the Dalton book to make finding the pics a bit easier?
In looking at the production year guide serial numbers, the last 175 listed with the 7 prefix, indicating that it was a 175 in the modified 100 / 125 frame, had a June of 73 build date, same as the first 250 listed. From this information, it looks to me that he wanted the newer chassis but wanted to be in the 175cc class. Possibly was able to get a new gold Mint / Hare Scrambler and put his Piner engine in it.
The first 175 listed in the newer chassis was built in December of 73, possibly giving the dealers and the warehouse time to get the now obsolete 175s in the 100 / 125 frames out the door...and allowing the factory to concentrate on filling the pent up demand for the 250s with an uninterrupted production run.
http://www.pentonusa.org/prodyears/framenumber.asp
Neat topic :D
Have a great day fellow celestial native:)
Paul
I think Paul's scenario is probably what happened. The funny thing is now a lot of people like to build 250s or 400s using the early 175 frame.
Brian
Quotequote:Originally posted by brian kirby
I think Paul's scenario is probably what happened. The funny thing is now a lot of people like to build 250s or 400s using the early 175 frame.
Brian
Thanks Paul and Brian I will post up a photo and links when we get home. Regards, John
Ok, Paul's information is of course correct as usual. Stef Van Der Sluis was on the Dutch Vase Team (Netherlands B) which finished third as listed in the Dalton book. Van Der Sluis is shown as having been on a 175 "KTM". In case it helps, his teammates are listed as having been on 125s (2) and another 175.
In this photo (page 125 of the Dalton book), Van Der Sluis is shown along with German rider Gunter Luken of the German team, mounted on what is listed as a 175 "KTM" and clearly appears to be such. Luken retired.
Notice the curvature of the pipes, which appear to be very similar, but maybe not identical? Notice also the brake actuating rod, however, which appears to be much lower on the Van Der Sluis bike, probably pulling from below the axle. Maybe my eyes are fooling me though. The center stands and chain guards appear to be identical. Are there any other telltales?
It is frustrating but I can only get this to load upside down. Sorry but you might have to stand on your head (very easy to do on Mars), turn your head upside down (ditto) or maybe for you Earthlings you might save the photo to your hard drive and then rotate it. FIXED!!
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c36/80fj40/photo-51.jpg)
In this link it is said that Van Der Sluis appears with his Dutch teammates from Dalton but says that he was a 250 rider. Sadly the photo link is not operable.
http://www.classicenduro.be/Lantings.html
Maybe an inspection of the '73 video will reveal something but honestly I don't think that videographer or editor had too much attention span for anything but US Pentons!!:D
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Interestingly, the bike Luken is riding is also a "new" frame bike, 35mm forks, the conical non-damper KTM rear wheel which the '73 175 had the older damper sprocket carrier setup, its basically identical except with blue fiberglass.
Brian
on the blue bike it appears to have a Preston Petty front fender
both bikes have center stands, was that Euro only ??
great photo non the less :-))
Mike Gallagher, NJ.
[email protected]
The only difference I can see is the brake actuating rod. I am not knowledgeable enough about bikes in general or Pentons in particular to know if that could simply have been a matter of rider preference/set-up or was an actual difference in design.
Mike I am fairly certain that pillondorino has a center stand available for the frame breathers if you want one. [:p][:p] Regards, John
oh and in case Paul or someone else cares to chime in -- the fact that the numbers of the riders is sequential must not be coincidence. It certainly does not look like day 1 either! On following days are riders sent out in number/minute order? That is pretty funny (to me) because it would seem to make more sense to group the riders anew each day and send out riders with like times together. But there is a lot about the ISDT that I don't really understand but nevertheless think is remarkable as a sporting creation.
In those days bikes were sent out in order of smallest class first. Once you are on a row, you start at the same time every day with the same row mates. These two were on the same row, having the same size bike.
Brian