My friend has a saracen with a fiberglass tank. He recently pulled it from his fathers barn and got it running. He left gas in the tank and the tank blistered badly and the tank is ruined. Is there a coating that can be done to the inside of the tank to keep this from happening? Or is draining the tank everytime you ride the only way to save the tank?
Is aviation fuel safer to use?
73 Jackpiner
73 Husky 360 WR/RT
76 Husky WR360
78 husky cr250
10 ktm 250xc
02 bmw r1150r
You will need an epoxy resin sealant - a company called Caswell do a kit that will do the job. I have just restored a 74 Hare Scrambler and sealed the tank with a similar product as modern fuel destroys fibreglass. So far, it seems to have worked.
Hope this helps,
Ethanol is a solvent that dissolves polyester resin used in fiberglass. I do not recommend Caswell or any other epoxy tank sealant, it WILL eventually peel off potentially seizing your engine from plugged petcocks. I have 5 tanks that were all sealed with Caswell, all were done with meticulous prep, and now they are all worthless because the sealer is peeling off in small pieces plugging the petcocks. It might work if you could prep the surface by sanding it like you would any other fiberglass surface, but unless you cut the tank open you cant do that, shaking some screws around inside the tank is not going to do it.
The only solution, in my opinion, is non-ethanol fuel.
Brian
...or an aluminium tank. Looks like a business opportunity for someone.
Since my tanks are ruined, I am going to try cutting them open, sanding out the Caswell, and sealing them with plain epoxy resin and a layer of glass, then putting them back together.
Brian
There is a small airport near me. Is aviation fuel non ethanol?
73 Jackpiner
73 Husky 360 WR/RT
76 Husky WR360
78 husky cr250
10 ktm 250xc
02 bmw r1150r
Visit the pure-gas.org website. You may find a gas station near you that sells straight gas.
Yes Dale, the FAA says ethanol is too dangerous to be allowed in aviation fuel, but I would not use it straight, mix it 50/50 with some non-ethanol pump fuel. Most boats have fiberglass fuel tanks, and as a result almost every marina will have non-ethanol fuel.
Brian
The biggest problem is that once a tank gets contaminated with oil/gas mixture seeping into the fiberglass resin when the Ethanol begins to break it down, that it is next to, if not completely impossible to get the oil removed from the fiberglass matting. Tanks that I have coated successfully with POR-15 clear paint remain unaffected by Ethanol, but a few others that were probably already contaminated with oil have lifted or failed like the Caswell coated ones that Brian is referring to. In a tank that is not already contaminated, the fix is permanent, as POR-15 is impervious to chemicals including Ethanol, as attested to by a piece or fiberglass cloth treated with POR-15 and submerged in gasahol over a long period of time, even with the back side of the fiberglass cloth left unsealed allowing the gasahol to penetrate to the POR-15 Clear paint from underneath with no change from when 1st introduced to the gasahol. POR-15 will not tell you this will work and will try to sell you their fuel tank sealant which is a much softer more gel like product, (and I do not recomment), than the rock hard POR-15 paint. They do not want to be responsible in case of failure. You can remove with limited success failed Kreme coatings with Acetone, but even Acetone with not phase POR-15 Clear Paint. Mike
Michael R. Winter
I enjoy rebuilding and appreciating Pentons!
1974 250 HS Pentons-1980 KTM 175-400'S
1975 Can Am 175 TNT & 77 250 Black Widow
1979 Husqvarna OR390
1976-78 RM & 77-79 PE Suzuki's
1974 CR250M 07 CR125R 79 CR250R
I agree Mike. My Dad uses black POR-15 in his Mustang car restorations, so I know it is good stuff. I plan to use it in one of my tanks that I cut apart.
Brian
Quotequote:Originally posted by Dale Sonnenschein
There is a small airport near me. Is aviation fuel non ethanol
LL 100 AvGas will solve all your problems. Use it in your bike, chainsaw, leaf blower, weed whacker...........they will always start and your tank won't self destruct.
Dennis Jones
A bit off topic. What would you recommend using to clean out a 74 125
plastic tank that had gas in it from a round 1980. Its very gummy.
Thanks
Vince
Original formula PineSol.
Michael R. Winter
I enjoy rebuilding and appreciating Pentons!
1974 250 HS Pentons-1980 KTM 175-400'S
1975 Can Am 175 TNT & 77 250 Black Widow
1979 Husqvarna OR390
1976-78 RM & 77-79 PE Suzuki's
1974 CR250M 07 CR125R 79 CR250R
Mike
Thanks, actually have a big bottle in the shop.
VV
The VP race fuel I use is ethanol free.I know it is expensive but I have had no issues with the fiberglass tank. You can get it with lead or unleaded depending on the requirements of your engine.
Thanks for the help guys. I did check the pure gas site, nothing closer than an hour from where I am. Is straight avgas too high octane for these old bikes?
73 Jackpiner
73 Husky 360 WR/RT
76 Husky WR360
78 husky cr250
10 ktm 250xc
02 bmw r1150r
No, it will work just fine.
Brian
another plus in moving to Missouri from Illinois is that I can get non ethanol 93 octane at the pump in town
Big Dave
Thanks Dave, Rub it in!! :)
73 Jackpiner
73 Husky 360 WR/RT
76 Husky WR360
78 husky cr250
10 ktm 250xc
02 bmw r1150r
Brian have you used only race fuel in your tanks that failed with Caswell? I just did a Bultaco tank and plan on only using race fuel and now I am wondering if it will fail over time.
Terry
I have used a mix of race fuel and pump, none of it with ethanol. The problem is not the fuel in the tank after the application of the Caswell, its the inability to properly prep the inside surface of the tank and the oil/fuel already in the fiberglass.
Brian
I have found that the best way to clean a tank that has not already been affected by Ethanol softening the original gel coating inside the tank, or even gas/oil mixture affecting it is to rinse the tank thoroughly with Acetone several times over a period of a couple of days. The biggest problem even if the tank has been previously unaffected is that Acetone will its self soften the gel coat if left in the tank very long, but it is almost imperative to leave it in the tank to the point that the gel coat starts to actually become tacky for the best chance of removing any oil residue. Extreme caution should be used to monitor the effects of the Acetone, because leaving it in too long can actually collapse or ruin the tank as it can cause the fiberglass to lose its shape when it gets too soft. The tank needs to be rotated to rinse the insides evenly while checking it frequently during the process. I generally tend to rinse a tank for 5-10 minutes at a time with about 1/3 gal of Acetone then dumping the contents completely and allowing a drying period after the first couple of rinses, then a couple more again followed by a longer drying period, and winding up doing single rinses with even longer periods of drying in between, often using a total of 1-1/2-2 gallons of Acetone depending on the condition of the inside of the tank and verifying a clean clear rinse of Acetone for the last couple of rinses, then application of POR-15 clear paint in 3 coatings usually done 10-15 minutes apart, but initiated right after the last Acetone rinse as soon as the Acetone evaporates from the tank leaving a slight sticky tank inside to help the first coating of POR-15 Clear paint to adhere. Do not shake screws or anything else inside a softened tank! Each subsequent coating of the POR-15 Clear paint is applied as soon as the previous coating becomes slightly tacky. Patience and close monitoring is key because the POR-15 Clear paint takes longer for the first coat to become tacky than the next coating and even sooner for the 3rd. There is usually not enough time to do a 4th coating unless the shop temperature is cooler than normal. I usually shoot for 60-65 degrees shop temperature. The POR-15 Clear paint will become more aerated on each subsequent draining which speeds up its becoming thicker and becoming tacky. I rotate the tank for at least 5-7 minutes each time I apply a coating, then drain it into a large mixing cup with a paint strainer, then re-use it for the next 2 coatings. I have been buying 6 packs of pints of POR-15 Clear paint and using 2 pints for 1-2 tanks done at the same time. Wipe the top sealing surface and just inside of the filler neck lightly after the last coating is drained. Also after it sets up to the point that no more liquid drips from any petcock threaded collar a large drill bit turned by hand can be used to clear it from those threaded collars, but do it before it fully hardens! It will be rock hard once it sets up, almost impossible to sand, so make sure to keep clean rags and some Acetone handy to wipe off any external drips on the tank as soon as possible, and no more coating should be applied over the set up coating. I use rubber corks for the petcock collar plugs and GORILLA tape over the filler neck while rotating as a cap will leak and POR-15 will permanently plug the cap vents, but even GORILLA tape will leak as pressure builds during rotation during rinsing and during coating, so caution is advised. Mike
Michael R. Winter
I enjoy rebuilding and appreciating Pentons!
1974 250 HS Pentons-1980 KTM 175-400'S
1975 Can Am 175 TNT & 77 250 Black Widow
1979 Husqvarna OR390
1976-78 RM & 77-79 PE Suzuki's
1974 CR250M 07 CR125R 79 CR250R