Penton Owners Group

General Discussion => Penton Talk => Topic started by: Andreas Piepke on October 22, 2015, 06:01:54 PM

Title: GS conversion
Post by: Andreas Piepke on October 22, 2015, 06:01:54 PM
Hi All,

I am converting my 1973 Penton Hare Scrambler to a GS. I have almost all parts, only the rear fender is missing. Here a current image of the status:

(http://i1341.photobucket.com/albums/o746/andreas_g_piepke/Penton/100_5097_zps6cfuowth.jpg)

I want to install the speedo drive now:

(http://i1341.photobucket.com/albums/o746/andreas_g_piepke/Penton/100_5101_zps4erw9wve.jpg)

I am unsure how to put it into the front axle assembly. This is how the right sides looks (actually looked before I cleaned it):

(http://i1341.photobucket.com/albums/o746/andreas_g_piepke/Penton/100_2827_zpspsgdoiba.jpg)

These are the axle parts:

(http://i1341.photobucket.com/albums/o746/andreas_g_piepke/Penton/100_2843_zpsslffhaqs.jpg)

Can anybody tell me which parts/spacers are needed to accommodate the speedo drive? Your input would be very helpful. A photo of the showing the parts in correct assembly order would be most helpful too.

Cheers and many thanks in advance

Andreas
Title: GS conversion
Post by: marsattacks on October 22, 2015, 10:38:26 PM
Looks sweet!  I don't know the answer but some of our brothers have a bike with the info you need.
Title: GS conversion
Post by: Andreas Piepke on October 23, 2015, 08:59:09 AM
I think I figured it out: I removed the spacer behind the large hex nut and put the speedo drive in its place. It can then be held in place with that nut.

(http://i1341.photobucket.com/albums/o746/andreas_g_piepke/Penton/100_5102_zpsszbsdp0d.jpg)

Now I need to figure out how to connect all the cables. The color coding in the manual and the actual colors of the cables I have do not match in all cases. It would also be great to get some guidance regarding routing of the cables. Would anybody have photos showing the proper placement of the cables (multi-switch, harness, and tail light)?

Cheers

Andreas
Title: GS conversion
Post by: adrian_goold on October 23, 2015, 07:25:43 PM
Where did you obtain the speedo drive?
I am chasing one myself, all mine have the tabs broken off as they were left on the bike over the years and never lubed.

Looking nice too!



Regards,
Adrian Goold #101
http://www.ozktm.com
(http://i1089.photobucket.com/albums/i342/ozktm/1974%20KTM%20250%20Penton/1BB79418-1F02-412C-9EF5-67C029A9A961-1733-000002851414FCA5.jpg)[/URL]
'73 175 Rebuilt|2x'74.5 250 |'74.5 400 Restoring|2 x'76 MC5 250 |'76 MC5 400 |'78 250 in pieces|'81 250 | '81 495|74 CZ 250|
Title: GS conversion
Post by: skiracer on October 24, 2015, 07:51:07 AM
Looks great!  Time to get it muddy!!

Quotequote:Originally posted by adrian_goold

Where did you obtain the speedo drive?
I am chasing one myself, all mine have the tabs broken off as they were left on the bike over the years and never lubed.

Looking nice too!



Regards,
Adrian Goold #101
http://www.ozktm.com
(http://i1089.photobucket.com/albums/i342/ozktm/1974%20KTM%20250%20Penton/1BB79418-1F02-412C-9EF5-67C029A9A961-1733-000002851414FCA5.jpg)[/URL]
'73 175 Rebuilt|2x'74.5 250 |'74.5 400 Restoring|2 x'76 MC5 250 |'76 MC5 400 |'78 250 in pieces|'81 250 | '81 495|74 CZ 250|


1976 MC 5 Original Owner
1982 Suzuki PE 175
1976 Penton 175 XC
1979 KTM 175 GS
Title: GS conversion
Post by: Andreas Piepke on October 26, 2015, 06:12:27 PM
I have two speedo drives, both from POG people. On one of them the drive tabs are too far spaced and don't fit the wheel. I cleaned the drive and the speedo shaft with WD40. After that they both worked with noticeably less resistance. The drive has a grease nipple so it should be easy to keep it lubricated. Your bike looks great! How is it running?

Andreas
Title: GS conversion
Post by: Andreas Piepke on October 30, 2015, 07:23:57 PM
Hi POGers,

I've installed the engine into the frame and need to connect the wiring harness with the front light, switch, break switches (front and back), and tail light.

(http://i1341.photobucket.com/albums/o746/andreas_g_piepke/Penton/100_5159_zpsmpejcaoi.jpg)

(http://i1341.photobucket.com/albums/o746/andreas_g_piepke/Penton/100_5164_zpsownpmj96.jpg)

The colors of the cabling I have doesn't match the manual in all cases. My question: could people post some photos of the routing of the wiring? This would help me lay things out right and avoid conflicts (too short wires, pinch points, etc.) down the road.

Thanks

Andreas
Title: GS conversion
Post by: skiracer on October 31, 2015, 07:34:05 PM
Interesting cut out for the front sprocket....

Quotequote:Originally posted by adrian_goold

Where did you obtain the speedo drive?
I am chasing one myself, all mine have the tabs broken off as they were left on the bike over the years and never lubed.

Looking nice too!



Regards,
Adrian Goold #101
http://www.ozktm.com
(http://i1089.photobucket.com/albums/i342/ozktm/1974%20KTM%20250%20Penton/1BB79418-1F02-412C-9EF5-67C029A9A961-1733-000002851414FCA5.jpg)[/URL]
'73 175 Rebuilt|2x'74.5 250 |'74.5 400 Restoring|2 x'76 MC5 250 |'76 MC5 400 |'78 250 in pieces|'81 250 | '81 495|74 CZ 250|


1976 MC 5 Original Owner
1982 Suzuki PE 175
1976 Penton 175 XC
1979 KTM 175 GS
Title: GS conversion
Post by: Andreas Piepke on October 31, 2015, 07:50:48 PM
Can anybody tell me how to route the cable harness:

(http://i1341.photobucket.com/albums/o746/andreas_g_piepke/Penton/100_5208_zps9dchgrat.jpg)

There seems awfully little room anywhere. A picture of the routing would be most helpful!

Thanks

Andreas
Title: GS conversion
Post by: 454MRW on November 01, 2015, 04:30:11 AM
Here are some pics of an all original 1977 GS-6 wiring routing that was shared by another POG member years ago, and should be similar to most Penton Enduro's. Mike
(http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee220/454MRW/77%20GS%20Cable%20Routing%2015_zpsfmxx4dbk.jpg)
[URL=http://s232.photobucket.com/user/454MRW/media/77%20GS%20Cable%20Routing%202_zpshcjejblu.jpg.html](http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee220/454MRW/77%20GS%20Cable%20Routing%202_zpshcjejblu.jpg)
[URL=http://s232.photobucket.com/user/454MRW/media/77%20GS%20Cable%20Routing%203_zpsvmupuuxr.jpg.html](http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee220/454MRW/77%20GS%20Cable%20Routing%203_zpsvmupuuxr.jpg)
[URL=http://s232.photobucket.com/user/454MRW/media/77%20GS%20Cable%20Routing%204_zps6qv0m7rn.jpg.html](http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee220/454MRW/77%20GS%20Cable%20Routing%204_zps6qv0m7rn.jpg)
[URL=http://s232.photobucket.com/user/454MRW/media/77%20GS%20Cable%20Routing%205_zpswx6dklcs.png.html](http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee220/454MRW/77%20GS%20Cable%20Routing%205_zpswx6dklcs.png)
[URL=http://s232.photobucket.com/user/454MRW/media/77%20GS%20Cable%20Routing%207_zpsb8ed439g.jpg.html](http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee220/454MRW/77%20GS%20Cable%20Routing%207_zpsb8ed439g.jpg)
[URL=http://s232.photobucket.com/user/454MRW/media/77%20GS%20Cable%20Routing%2018_zpsrnzuv0br.jpg.html](http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee220/454MRW/77%20GS%20Cable%20Routing%2018_zpsrnzuv0br.jpg)
[URL=http://s232.photobucket.com/user/454MRW/media/77%20GS%20Cable%20Routing%2019_zpstknoqglx.jpg.html](http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee220/454MRW/77%20GS%20Cable%20Routing%2019_zpstknoqglx.jpg)
[URL=http://s232.photobucket.com/user/454MRW/media/77%20GS%20Cable%20Routing%2016_zpsakjzrujm.jpg.html](http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee220/454MRW/77%20GS%20Cable%20Routing%2016_zpsakjzrujm.jpg)
[URL=http://s232.photobucket.com/user/454MRW/media/77%20GS%20Cable%20Routing%2017_zps7gx3tkhq.jpg.html](http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee220/454MRW/77%20GS%20Cable%20Routing%2017_zps7gx3tkhq.jpg)
[URL=http://s232.photobucket.com/user/454MRW/media/77%20GS%20Cable%20Routing%2014_zpsllp7zf0k.jpg.html](http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee220/454MRW/77%20GS%20Cable%20Routing%2014_zpsllp7zf0k.jpg)
[URL=http://s232.photobucket.com/user/454MRW/media/77%20GS%20Cable%20Routing%201_zpsn2wseidq.jpg.html](http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee220/454MRW/77%20GS%20Cable%20Routing%201_zpsn2wseidq.jpg)
[URL=http://s232.photobucket.com/user/454MRW/media/77%20GS%20Cable%20Routing%2011_zpsnklcdu35.jpg.html](http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee220/454MRW/77%20GS%20Cable%20Routing%2011_zpsnklcdu35.jpg)
[URL=http://s232.photobucket.com/user/454MRW/media/77%20GS%20Cable%20Routing%2013_zpsm51zjsqf.jpg.html](http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee220/454MRW/77%20GS%20Cable%20Routing%2013_zpsm51zjsqf.jpg)
[URL=http://s232.photobucket.com/user/454MRW/media/77%20GS%20Cable%20Routing%208_zpsefdziv8k.jpg.html](http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee220/454MRW/77%20GS%20Cable%20Routing%208_zpsefdziv8k.jpg)
[URL=http://s232.photobucket.com/user/454MRW/media/77%20GS%20Cable%20Routing%209_zpser7k6j6b.jpg.html](http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee220/454MRW/77%20GS%20Cable%20Routing%209_zpser7k6j6b.jpg)

Michael R. Winter
I enjoy rebuilding and appreciating Pentons!
1974 250 HS Pentons-1978 KTM 250'S
1975 Can Am 175 TNT 250 conversion
1976-78 125-400 RM's & 79 PE250 Suzuki & 2012 DR650
2007 CR125R Honda
1977 MC250 Maico
 (http://s232.photobucket.com/user/454MRW/media/77%20GS%20Cable%20Routing%2015_zpsfmxx4dbk.jpg.html)
Title: GS conversion
Post by: Andreas Piepke on November 01, 2015, 09:10:41 AM
Mike, thanks a lot! This is really most helpful. I'll put the cables in later today. I'll orient at you pictures for the routing. There is really not a whole lot of room here. I searched the POG site but couldn't find this thread.

(http://i1341.photobucket.com/albums/o746/andreas_g_piepke/Penton/100_5209_zpsmtszzhuz.jpg)

Thanks again!

Andreas
Title: GS conversion
Post by: 454MRW on November 01, 2015, 09:18:51 AM
Andreas,
I had previously posted about the same scenario that you were inquiring and was emailed these and a few more pics directly to my email, these pics were not previously posted on the site, other than maybe one or two of them. Mike

Michael R. Winter
I enjoy rebuilding and appreciating Pentons!
1974 250 HS Pentons-1978 KTM 250'S
1975 Can Am 175 TNT 250 conversion
1976-78 125-400 RM's & 79 PE250 Suzuki & 2012 DR650
2007 CR125R Honda
1977 MC250 Maico
Title: GS conversion
Post by: adrian_goold on November 01, 2015, 11:47:15 PM
ski racer, yes, interesting cutout, i got the cover like that. Easy access to the clutch cable.

Adrian
Quotequote:Originally posted by skiracer

Interesting cut out for the front sprocket....

Quotequote:Originally posted by adrian_goold

Where did you obtain the speedo drive?
I am chasing one myself, all mine have the tabs broken off as they were left on the bike over the years and never lubed.

Looking nice too!



Regards,
Adrian Goold #101
http://www.ozktm.com
(http://i1089.photobucket.com/albums/i342/ozktm/1974%20KTM%20250%20Penton/1BB79418-1F02-412C-9EF5-67C029A9A961-1733-000002851414FCA5.jpg)[/URL]
'73 175 Rebuilt|2x'74.5 250 |'74.5 400 Restoring|2 x'76 MC5 250 |'76 MC5 400 |'78 250 in pieces|'81 250 | '81 495|74 CZ 250|


1976 MC 5 Original Owner
1982 Suzuki PE 175
1976 Penton 175 XC
1979 KTM 175 GS
Title: GS conversion
Post by: Andreas Piepke on November 08, 2015, 04:36:14 PM
Hi All,

I installed a GS rear fender and tail light this weekend:

(http://i1341.photobucket.com/albums/o746/andreas_g_piepke/Penton/100_5267_zpsnmznwuor.jpg)

The DC Plastics fender didn't fit too good, it took me quite a while to install. The tail light is a real CEV part I found in France, for a quite reasonable price.
Next step: rout all these cables and get them connected correctly. I plan to put four 1.5 V batteries together and connect them where the generator usually connects. This will allow me to try out all functions and measure all currents, before connecting the generator (and potentially burn something as there is no fuse anywhere). I'll also need to rout some additional cables to connect the front break switch which is not shown in the wiring scheme.

Have a great weekend!

Andreas
Title: GS conversion
Post by: Andreas Piepke on November 08, 2015, 11:12:51 PM
Hi All,

Another thing, look at the break light switch I have:

(http://i1341.photobucket.com/albums/o746/andreas_g_piepke/Penton/break_light_zpsik5ldkoq.jpg)

I am lacking the spring to connect it to the break pedal. Would anybody have one?

Cheers

Andreas
Title: GS conversion
Post by: StephenRead on November 09, 2015, 04:24:42 PM
Andreas - Where did you purchase the Enduro rear fender, and the taillight assembly ?  I am in need of the same components for my rebuild of a 1975 250 Hare Scrambler Enduro in the States. Thanks for any info.
Title: GS conversion
Post by: KJDonovan on November 09, 2015, 05:20:11 PM
Andreas,

You should be able to find a spring at most any hardware store.  Nothing special about it, just find one that fits.

(http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt298/KJDonovan/Spring.jpg)

Thanks,

Kevin
Title: GS conversion
Post by: Andreas Piepke on November 09, 2015, 09:52:12 PM
Thanks Kevin! This certainly helps. Would you know the force constant of this spring? Once I have an approximate value I can find a spring.

Andreas
Title: GS conversion
Post by: KJDonovan on November 10, 2015, 08:37:18 AM
Andreas,

Really? You expect I will know the constant force value of an extension spring I picked out of a bin at NAPA?  Here you go, you appear to be a sharp guy, you can do the math :D.

Variables
d = wire size (inches)
D = Mean Diameter (inches)
N = Number of active coils  
D / d = Index correction
G = Shear Modulus of Material (Music Wire = 11.5 x 10^6)
k = Spring Constant


Variable Values (From the spring I used)
Wire Diameter: d = 0.047 inches  
Outside Diameter: OD = 0.375 inches
Mean Diameter: D = 0.328 inches
Number of Coils: N = 42
G = 11.5 x 10^6 psi
Full Length: FL = 2.5" inches
 
Constant Force: k = Gd^4 / 8D^3N

Or you could do what I (and probably most people do) ;).  Pull out your tape measure and measure how long a spring you need extended and un-extended.  Then head on down to the hardware store or auto parts store and pick through the bins until you find one that works.

Thanks,

Kevin
Title: GS conversion
Post by: marsattacks on November 14, 2015, 03:23:55 PM
Andreas that's exactly the correct switch you have there.  I think my HS had a hike drilled in the top of the brake pedal whereas Kevin is running his from the rod it appears.  

Oh and Stephen you can get the tail light from Guzzino or bevel heaven -- the plastic backed version is cheaper than the metal but metal is how they came when new.  The fenders should be available but I can sell you a fiberglass one I used for whatever I paid but honestly plastic is more durable.
Title: GS conversion
Post by: Steve Minor on November 14, 2015, 04:20:03 PM
My memory isn't what it once was, but I don't recall my 77 400 GS6 having a front brake switch when I bought it new....you might want to check on that.

Quotequote:Originally posted by Andreas Piepke

Hi All,

I installed a GS rear fender and tail light this weekend:

(http://i1341.photobucket.com/albums/o746/andreas_g_piepke/Penton/100_5267_zpsnmznwuor.jpg)

The DC Plastics fender didn't fit too good, it took me quite a while to install. The tail light is a real CEV part I found in France, for a quite reasonable price.
Next step: rout all these cables and get them connected correctly. I plan to put four 1.5 V batteries together and connect them where the generator usually connects. This will allow me to try out all functions and measure all currents, before connecting the generator (and potentially burn something as there is no fuse anywhere). I'll also need to rout some additional cables to connect the front break switch which is not shown in the wiring scheme.

Have a great weekend!

Andreas


Steve Minor
Title: GS conversion
Post by: brian kirby on November 14, 2015, 05:28:17 PM
I dont believe they came with front brake switches.

Brian
Title: GS conversion
Post by: Andreas Piepke on November 14, 2015, 06:17:02 PM
My wiring diagram does show one either. However, I had a 1981 GS some time ago and that did come with a front break switch. I have a switch and the break lever accommodates it. Well, maybe I'll just leave it out on this one. Thanks for the input!

Andreas
Title: GS conversion
Post by: Andreas Piepke on November 26, 2015, 05:44:37 PM
Hi All,

I managed to put all electrical components together this weekend. I used a low voltage power supply with current limiter (to not fry any wires should there be a short). This allowed me to verify all functions, before running the engine.

(http://i1341.photobucket.com/albums/o746/andreas_g_piepke/Penton/100_5299_zpskfralddw.jpg)

This actually identified problems in the switch which were fixable by cleaning the insider and re-attaching the little cables.
The bike is put together now:

(http://i1341.photobucket.com/albums/o746/andreas_g_piepke/Penton/100_5323_zpsjobvatma.jpg)

It starts and runs much better now than before. I think it was worth taking the engine apart again, as painful as that was.
Now I need to fix the tank. I am having a hard time getting the old decals off. They are rock hard and seem to be permanently attached to the fiber glass. I tried heating with a heat gun, soaking in Windex and WD40, followed by scraping with a plastic spatula. Nothing seems to make the old decal budge. Do you have any tips beyond the measures described above? I want to try polishing the tank before paining it. The fiber glass was gel coated so a niche polish might bring back the shine.

Happy Thanksgiving for everybody!

Andreas

P.S.: Little movie https://youtu.be/w9Hzin_caXk
Title: GS conversion
Post by: JCHubbard on November 29, 2015, 02:35:35 PM
Andreas,  

Great job on the conversion.  I've been following your progress since 2014, and I know you had had some snafus along the way so I just have to say -- way to go and job well done! Saw your video and it looks like you are on your way!!

The guys on here are so helpful and collectively have just an astronomical amount of knowledge about these bikes. Big thank you to all of POG members here who are always willing to help.

Regards,

John
Title: GS conversion
Post by: Keith May on November 29, 2015, 06:20:10 PM
Andreas,

I've had pretty good luck removing old vinyl striping, graphics, and paint from fiberglass boats with Easy-Off oven cleaner. It will remove paint so if the tank has been painted...BEWARE! It doesn't seem to hurt the gelcoat. If you go that route please try it on a spot out of sight under the tank just to be safe. Once removed the gelcoat should buff out. I haven't tried Zip Strip or similar paint removers but that may be an option too.
Good luck.

Keith
Title: GS conversion
Post by: marsattacks on November 29, 2015, 07:29:20 PM
Nice job. There aren't loads of people who have the patience know how and commitment to do what you have done.  Congrats.
Title: GS conversion
Post by: Daniel P. McEntee on November 29, 2015, 10:46:45 PM
I'll add my congratulations to you also. To say that you can be thorough in your efforts is an understatement! Sticking to the problem with good thought process. And your photos are great! Threads like this should be pinned somewhere easy to find just for the photos! Several questions can be answered I think just by reading the thread and it's accompanying threads. The nest part is now you get to enjoy the fruits of your labor, and you did it all yourself! Just keep us in the loop on getting the decals off your tank! The Off oven cleaner is used by plastic car model builders to take paint off plastic, so may be a viable option, and one I might never have thought of!
   Thanks a lot,
   Dan McEntee
Title: GS conversion
Post by: Andreas Piepke on November 29, 2015, 11:06:26 PM
Hi All,

I'll try the decal removal advice. Seems worth a try!
Thanks for the encouragement. I am really happy that this job seems to come to a good conclusion now and proud that I was able to do this. I am looking forward to riding the bike. The POG was extremely helpful along the way, with good advice, encouragement, and even parts that helped at critical stages. I am enjoying interacting with this group a lot. I would love coming to your meetings, were it not such a long distance. With this project coming to an end I will probably start another one.

Cheers and thanks!

Andreas
Title: GS conversion
Post by: Andreas Piepke on January 30, 2016, 02:57:30 PM
Hi All,

the work on my 1973 (model year 1974) Hare Scrambler seems to be slowly concluding. I had the tank painted (that took a while) and put new decals on:

(http://i1341.photobucket.com/albums/o746/andreas_g_piepke/Penton/100_5425_zps0uhalty6.jpg)

(http://i1341.photobucket.com/albums/o746/andreas_g_piepke/Penton/100_5432_zpsigkeoqh8.jpg)

Looks much better than before, I hope. Two little things:
1) The color of the tank and the side panels is not exactly the same
2) This is something many of you must have struggled with: how to put flat decals onto a 3-dimensionally curved surface without putting any wrinkles into it? I have a bunch of little wrinkles in the front of the tank were it has the most curvature.

Cheers

Andreas
Title: GS conversion
Post by: Toolsurfer on January 30, 2016, 05:53:15 PM
Adrain I just saw one on Ebay while looking at Penton/KTM parts. Toolsurfer
Title: GS conversion
Post by: 454MRW on January 30, 2016, 07:28:41 PM
Try re-wetting the decals and use a careful application of a heat gun or hair dryer on the decals. Usually when first applying them on a wet, slightly soapy surface, the heat will allow the decals to stretch some allowing them to form to the contour better. The tank color looks good. The side panel seem a little dark. Mike

Michael R. Winter
I enjoy rebuilding and appreciating Pentons!
1974 250 HS Pentons-1978-1979 MX-6 175 & 250 KTM's
1976-78 125-400 RM's & 79 PE250 Suzuki & 2012 DR650
2007 CR125R Honda
1977 MC250 Maico
Title: GS conversion
Post by: Andreas Piepke on January 30, 2016, 08:04:49 PM
OK I will try this out. Indeed the two reds are not exactly the same. It is Ford Crimson Red in both cases but didn't come out the same.

Andreas
Title: GS conversion
Post by: Daniel Desranleau on January 30, 2016, 08:22:05 PM
Great job, looks amazing.
Title: GS conversion
Post by: Daniel P. McEntee on January 31, 2016, 10:26:50 AM
The bike looks awesome! The shade of red on the tank looks fine to me, and the side panel too dark. Maybe repaint the side panel with a white primer underneath to brighten it up a bit.
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee
Title: GS conversion
Post by: Andreas Piepke on January 31, 2016, 11:15:24 AM
Indeed, I used a dark primer for the side panels. On top of that I did the side panels myself, the tank was done by a local body shop. The finish and thickness of the paint cover on the tank are much better than what I did. Maybe I'll try your suggestion.

Cheers

Andreas