Hi guys, I'm a Penton fan from Italy and i'm curious about the history of this particular bike. I would like to ask you if there are any sort of data regarding the number of 250s bikes sold in the U.S. in 1973.
I would like to thank in advance all of you for the replies and for this amazing site. :)
Michelle thanks for the post! The 73 Jurassic Penton is awesome. If you go to the serial number link on the home page it should tell you some information. The rugginose site as you may know has some information too. If you use the search engine you'll see attempts to determine when the "red shift" began. That is an astronomical term but I'm from Mars.
We began to get 74 red tank regular swingarm Pentons in late September early October of 73 at Odessa Sales & Rentals in West Texas. In April of 74 we began to get the 741/2 models with the multi-position swingarm. When I came to Odessa Sales & Rentals the summer of 73 the yellow tankers were already there and we sold more of those than anyone in the Penton Central jurisdiction if I remember correctly.
Larry P
Thank you for your replies. I saw the frame number list and that's why i was curious about it. I notice that you have registered 10 '73 250 HS (8 truly '73 and 2 late '73 maybe already 'red tank' model?). Of course not all of the 250s sold in 1973 are in that list.
I'm a 25 years old guy so i don't have your knowledge and i may be wrong in what i'm saying but i've heard that in Italy these bikes back in 1973 were very rare (maybe 30-35 bikes sold as KTM in Italy or even less).
So, considering that the U.S market was bigger than the italian one, i would like to ask you, if any of you has an idea, how many bikes were sold in the U.S.?
I hope you understand what i'd like to know.
PS: sorry if i made some writing's mistakes.
Michele
Michele, this is a very knowledgeable group. I got much good advice on my own 1973 HS from this site. Regarding the number listing: it seems to be kind of stale. I submitted my numbers some time back but they don't show up there. Maybe nobody is adding new data any more. Post some photos of your bike.
Cheers
Andreas
P.S.: Where do your language skills come from? Your post reads almost like from a native English speaker.
'73 Penton Hare Scrambler
'73 Norton Commando
'77 Maico 440 GS
I'm sorry I cannot say exactly. I had a 12/1973 250 that had the "regular" swingarm and other elements of the yellow/gold "giallo" Penton but had a red tank. I should say that the characteristics of the yellow bikes or very early red bikes are as follows:
Regular swingarm with single position
Short/low seat
For giallo only, a 12mm kicker and black cases
Early red (1973) had a particular clutch cover different from later red
Tubular engine supports.
Early red had small black lettering on tank whereas later red had white lettering
Maybe there are other elements. Perhaps I'm mistaken on some.
You are on it. Yours was an early 74.
Larry P
Hi Andreas, i saw every single post about your restoring process. Quality pictures for many like me that have to restore or rebuilt the bike. At the moment my project is far from being a bike, i've just found the frame and the swingarm in a good shape and me and my dad already have some minor parts from previous bikes. We used to own a '72 125 with Sachs motor but we sold it, and many other Europeans dirt bikes from the 60's and the 70's.
Maybe you are right, no one updated that list any more but i hope they start doing it again.
Ps: Thank you, I've studied English at school and at University and than i keep on exercised it in my spare time reading articles and watching things about my passions: dirt bikes and English football.
Cheers guys
From what I can tell, the biggest difference between the yellow tank 250's and the red tank one's was the exhaust pipe on the yellow tank was completely different. Has anyone ever seen a red tank 250 with the yellow type pipe on it knowing for sure that it was original?
RCG
Also the yellow tankers had the small kick shaft like a 175. They were weak!
Larry P
I had two guys I rode with among many. One new 73 Jackpiner and his brother new 73 Harescrambler .I have 74 1/2 now , the 73 had a different yellow toaster tank,green and yellow number plates, twin outlet expansion chamber/ silencer, short low seat with trim, handlebars had no cross brace, cases were Black , I believe the chain tensior was different along with his front and rear fender.Neither were Enduro versions . I remember the tires were Metzler's front and rear 3.00 front and 4.50 rear on 250. Neither of these bikes were modified and ran very competive in the woods, Harescrambles and Motocross in 1974 were I lived.
Thank you for all the interesting informations. I've another question for you. I've seen somewhere on the net, can't remember where, a picture of a '73 HS yellow tank with both front and rear fenders in aluminium. Can it be possible? Maybe the first one's?
I dont think any of the '73 250s should have had aluminum fenders since they were 73 1/2s but as with everything Penton during this time, anything is possible.
Brian
I have a brochure that shows the first 250's pictured with aluminum fenders, don't know if any were ever produced.
RCG
The very first ones had aluminum but not for long. I remember having to take some off for a customer and installing Pettys. They went on a shelf with quite a few other take offs from 125 and 175s. When we expanded our parts supply the owner had me throw them and a bunch of CEV headlights in the dumpster. No one wanted them then as Petty was the stink. Sad but true story. Hate to think what those new fenders and lights would net today. Hindsight.
Larry P
Does anyone know if the porting and/or compression were any different on those early machines, or was it just the pipe that gave them a reputation as far as being a bit wicked VS the later machines?
Thanks,
Paul
Paul as you may remember I had one of the first 10 to come into the USA. Mine had radical porting and in discussions over the years we felt like that KTM wanted to make a statement and probably put the same porting as they used on their race team? Never checked the compression, but it had more than my '74.
In talking to Mike Lewis when he was ridding one of the first 250 Pentons he stated he was clocked at over 100MPH at the Greenhorn National. Unfortunately when they brought the bike to him for the National no one had put new piston and rings in the engine and when he stopped for gas the bike wouldn't start.
As far as the pipe I never tried it on a '74 250 so I couldn't say what difference it would have made? I do know that we tried different pipes on the '73 250 and it slowed it down. Looking back maybe I should have left the slower pipe on it.
The '73 250 had to be the most radical 250 I have ever road and the 400 was a hand full untill we detuned them with a smaller carburetor.
That is all I can remember and some may or may not agree, but the '73 was a powerful and a good handling bike, but lacked any rear travel. Hope this helped.
Ron Carbaugh
Thank you Ron for posting! It's always nice to hear new things about this bike, expecially for a young fan like me!
The first batch were fringer ported and matched I was told by Rod Bush years ago.
Larry P
The ratio between the crank gear and clutch was also different on 73 black engines which would allow them to rev quicker. Mike
Michael R. Winter
I enjoy rebuilding and appreciating Pentons!
1974 250 HS Pentons-1978-1979 MX-6 175 & 250 KTM's
1976-78 125-400 RM's & 79 PE250 Suzuki & 2012 DR650
2007 CR125R Honda
1977 MC250 Maico
Hi everyone, i have another question for you experts about the '73 250 HS. I've seen some photos about the '73 ISDT in Dalton in which this bikes were fitted with low profile front and rear rims and not with Akront high profile ones.
So my question is, which configuration was the original one at the beginning?
Hope you understand what i mean.
The original 73s had the shouldered Akronts(The mud catchers).
Larry P
Thank you Larry, i knew that the original 73s had the shouldered Akronts but why do you think in the ISDT in some cases the shouldered were replaced by 'normal' ones? Just personal tastes? I add a picture of Jack Penton during Dalton's ISDT. I knew that he ran in the 350's class but i think the bike was the same a part from a bigger bore cylinder.
Does anyone know what type of rims are on Jack Penton's bike?
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They sure like the Akront mud catchers in the pic to me. Mike
Michael R. Winter
I enjoy rebuilding and appreciating Pentons!
1974 250 HS Pentons-1978-1979 MX-6 175 & 250 KTM's
1976-78 125-400 RM's & 79 PE250 Suzuki & 2012 DR650
2007 CR125R Honda
1977 MC250 Maico
Would agree with Mike. Just like the ones on my 250 . Akront with the shoulder , very popular in early 70's .