My 125 six day gas tank just started leaking from bottom seam how or what is the fix when I poured the gas out there was a lot of what looked like plastic or some kind of coating came out please help this is a nice bike and need it fixed
Ethanol gas?
Yes 93octane
Jeff,
This is a very timely topic. For nearly half of the day, I've been researching tank sealer failures. Specifically, Caswell tank sealer. I've treated 6 tanks with Caswell and only 2 have held up. The tanks that held up were from 72 Ossa Pioneers, which just happened to have vented gas caps. As a matter of fact I never even had to drain the tanks!
The failed fiberglass tanks were from a Rokon, 78 KTM (with enduro tank), and 2 Maico coffin tanks -- the one thing they all had in common -- none of them had vented gas caps. Even after I drained them I noticed some time later that the sealer was cracking around the gas filler hole. Today, I realized that it was probably gas vapors combined with heat from the garage during the summer, and a non-vented cap that led to the demise of the tank sealers in my case.
Earlier today, I painted a Caswell treated fiberglass tank for my 74 Rokon 340. It was treated about 6 months ago and has had plenty of time to cure. Nonetheless, when I drain my tank after my next ride on it this weekend, I'm going to make sure that the gas cap is not tightened, thereby mitigating the build up of heat, gas vapors and another premature sealer failure.
Later this fall, I'm going to call one of my local body shops that I frequently use to restore my metal gas tanks, and ask if they can open up my failed fiberglass tanks, peel off the damaged Caswell liner and reglass the tanks. If they can't do it, I'm sure they'll know someone who can.
I apologize for being long winded, but this topic has been swirling around my brain for most of the day. Look forward to hearing what others have to say on this topic.
Interesting article on fiberglass tanks in the boating world:
http://www.boatus.com/seaworthy/fueltest.asp
I used Caswell sealer on a 1973 Norton fiber glass tank. It lasted for about one year before the methanol gas destroyed the tank. Success or failure with Caswell may have to do with how well you've cleaned the interior and whether or not you've coated the tank in its entirety. Unfortunately you can't tell as you can't look inside. I won't try this again.
Andreas
'73 Penton Hare Scrambler
'73 Norton Commando
'77 Maico 440 GS
JC, Great article thanks for posting! I will add that I have has success with the Caswell Dragons Blood product on Penton, Montesa and Bultaco tanks. I have used it on a more than a few with no failures. That stated, as part of the prep I also include an additional step of an argon purge after the tank has been cleaned to completely remove any residual moisture. Additionally I apply 2 coats and avoid fuels with ethanol as much as possible.
Thanks,
Kevin
If I use the caswell tank sealer what would be the best way to clean the in side thanks for all the help
JC:
Non vented gas caps?? If the cap isn't vented there has to be a vent hose somewhere. Many caps are vented underneath instead of with a hose or pin hole coming off of top of them. If there is no vent bike will run for only a short time and then fuel stops flowing. I believe your hypothesis is flawed.
Ted
Quotequote:Originally posted by jeff gibson
If I use the caswell tank sealer what would be the best way to clean the in side thanks for all the help
I had trouble a few years ago with sealing a fiberglass 1974 6day tank. The sealant started fluffing off. Finally decided that the problem was I had been previously using synthetic oil in the gas mixture - synthetic being much more slippery. When the tank was prepped for resealing (can't remember who did it - I was one step removed from the process), apparently the inside surface wasn't de-lubed enough due to the higher lubricity of the synthetic oil.
At least, that's how I remember the final conclusion reached.
Larry Seale
I choose to ride...slower and slower all the time
To date, after 40+ years of playing with bikes, I have never heard/seen any tank sealer working on any type of tank steel or fiberglas. Best thing to do is never leave any fuel in the tank when done riding and having the machine sit. Hope someone out there can prove me wrong but I really doubt it.
So, if a tank and has been treated and the sealer begins to flake off, what is the fix? I believe someone here was going to cut the tank open, clean it out, then basically rebuild the tank? I would like to hear a step-by-step process if that is the case.
Mick
Kip:
I have used Red Kote on 2 steel gas tanks. One is a 1979 Honda CBX. Was used only as a preventative measure and it has been 8 years plus. Gas is left in bike all the time. Sometimes 100 octane no ethanol and most of the time regular pump gas. No ill effects at all. Other bike is my wife's Yamaha 650 with same good results and it has been over 18 years with regular pump gas. I do not drain gas in winter just use a little Stabil or 2 stroke oil mixed in. Best thing about Red Kote is if it fails just rinse it out with acetone and re-install. Never had to do it but manufacturer says it is thinned with acetone so seem it would work.
My prep procedure is as follows:
Clean tank with acetone. Soak with hot water and 1/2 cup iron out over night. Rinse completely with water. Pour in some acetone to remove water. blow in warm air until dry and immediately coat with Red Kote. Let dry for at least a week.
I have used this on several other tanks but they have never seen fuel since coating but would expect same good results. As far as fiberglass I have zero knowledge.
Ted Atkinson
I guess I'm lucky to have several local stations that sell race gas and one that sells recreational fuel. The recreational fuel is Sunoco REC-90 and is 90 octane non-ethanol. I still drain the tanks and avoid any lengthy exposure though.
Aside from the tank issue I have seen even with the non-ethanol a powderish residue forming in the float bowl area of the carburetor(s) with the potential to gum up the jetting and passages.
What ever happened to the old days of just pour and go [?]
Dale Fisher
Penton Owners Group - President/Memberships
POG Merchandise
Mudlark Registry
Facebook - Penton Owners Group - Administrator
Facebook - Cheney Racing Group - Administrator
Ah yes...the complexities that arise when using food crops to create a solvent to mix with gasoline...
> I use Caswell in my Norton 750 F/G tank.
Read and FOLLOW the prep directions...that is the key.
Because I use it for general road riding I use pump E-10, but I drain the tank and the carb if the bike is going to sit for more then a few weeks...and I leave the cap flipped up.
Needless to say, it's drained and dried when stored for the winter.
I did have some flaking around the inner diameter of the cap tower, but was able to reseal it.
Despite all of that...I'm sure the day will come when I'll have to spring for a repop steel tank.
> For ANY 2 stroke race or trail bike, or any race bike with a F/G tank, I strongly recommend an E-0 race gas. I use VP Vintage...either leaded or unleaded...about 96 to 98 octane. There are similar products, usually sold in 5 gal cans.
Expensive? I guess...but cheap compared to potential engine detonation or rotting of expensive F/G tanks or read petals...
Richard Colahan
1969 V1225
Upper Black Eddy PA
One of the biggest problems with 2-stroke premix tanks is that the fiberglass has already been saturated by premix oil and it's almost impossible to get that oil out of the fiberglass before coating the tank. Mike
Michael R. Winter
I enjoy rebuilding and appreciating Pentons!
1974 250 HS Pentons-1978-1979 MX-6 175 & 250 KTM's
1976-78 125-400 RM's & 79 PE250 Suzuki & 2012 DR650
2007 CR125R Honda
1977 MC250 Maico
Quotequote:Originally posted by Mick Milakovic
So, if a tank and has been treated and the sealer begins to flake off, what is the fix? I believe someone here was going to cut the tank open, clean it out, then basically rebuild the tank? I would like to hear a step-by-step process if that is the case.
Mick
That was me. I have 6 tanks with failed Caswell coating. They are worthless as is so I figure I have nothing to lose by cutting them apart and fixing them correctly. All of my tanks were meticulously cleaned and prepped, and great care was taken applying the Caswell. All failed in 3 years or less.
Brian
Brian,I have an MX tank in similar condition. Let's talk about the process at the RR.
Mick
Sure thing Mick. There is nothing wrong with the Caswell coating, it's nothing but thin epoxy resin, the problem is you can't get the inside of the tank clean enough and even more importantly you can't properly prep the inside surface of the tank, rolling around some sheet rock screws is not enough. I did a lot of fiberglass repair on jet ski hulls and if you tried to stick Caswell to the hull of a ski without sanding it its not going to stick to that either. The only way to permanently fix it is to cut the tank open so you can prep the surface correctly. After that I plan to lay a thin layer of glass cloth with epoxy resin on the inside of the two halves, then clamp them together. Before the resin cures I will pour in some more resin to seal everything. This should be a permanent fix because epoxy is impervious to fuel, oil and ethanol.
Brian
Just having the problem of a failed caswell (or some kind of) tank sealer and have spent some time trying to get it all out of my 74 MX fiberglass tank - got most of it with wire brushes, old hacksaw blades, hangers with various end hooks, etc etc. I got up at least 4 or 5 full dustpans of the old failed liner chips and pieces. Trying to find a replacement tank is just not possible - none to be found. I put a piece of the old liner in a cup of acetone for an hour or so - didn't do anything to it - was still hard and brittle, so I don't believe flushing the tank with acetone will do any good (and its harmful to the fiberglass. I'm going to clean the tank out as best I can, and only use non ethanol gas since the ethanol also will eventually break down the fiberglass resin. As far as epoxies go, the newest are phenol novolac which can stand up to ethanol.
After a couple of weeks of cleaning the tank with hangers, bent brushes, shaking screws in the tank, etc - most all of the epoxy coating is gone. What liner is left is well adhered to the fiberglass. I flushed the tank with gas a couple of times and it seems good. I'll be sure to go through a couple of fuel filters and am using 90 octane ethanol free fuel from a local marina.
also looking for a new tank - if anyone has one please let me know.
(http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab162/ccmnova/IMG_20150802_141933a.jpg) (http://s860.photobucket.com/user/ccmnova/media/IMG_20150802_141933a.jpg.html)
I have a nice one. I can send some photos, what is your email or phone number?
pls send some pics to
[email protected]
Its a freak thing for sure, but I just recently bought a barn fresh 74 Berkshire that's been sitting in a friends barn for at least thirty years with out being touched. when I got it home and took off gas cap there is still gas in it. And the inside looks very good. And gas still smells like gas, but no I have not tried to start it yet.
Is that a fiberglass tank on that Berkshire ? I bought the fiberglass from Carl Hill and it looks good -
Yes a 74 Berkshire had a fiberglass tank.
Larry P
Well the gas sitting in the tank sure didn't bother that one ! I'm being told not to leave even non Ethanol fuel sit in the fiberglass tank for any length of time.
It is the ethanol gas that screws them up. It softens and thins the glass.
Larry P
Never ever put ethanol in a fiberglass tank. Race gas is expensive but well worth it.