Yes - an MC5 250 exhaust pipe. I know - I don't have an MC5 250, do I? I need it for my 175 MC5. Here's why: I want to move back to an earlier 7 fin 175 cylinder/top end and (per Gary E) I need an exhaust that will work with that cylinder's exhaust exit AND with the MC5 frame.
Try not to snicker, chuckle, or guffaw. I thank you in advance.
Bob Close
[email protected]
I guess you are knowing the manifold is a different size?
Larry P
The earlier 7 fin is the same as a 250. Let me look in the shop and see what I have. Mike
Michael R. Winter
I enjoy rebuilding and appreciating Pentons!
1974 250 HS Pentons-1978-1979 MX-6 175 & 250 KTM's
1976-78 125-400 RM's & 79 PE250 Suzuki & 2012 DR650
2007 CR125R Honda
1977 MC250 Maico
Bob, I actually installed a 77 style MC5 175 MC5 pipe in a 76 MC5 125 chassis with an old-style (1975) 7 fin engine at one time. In order to get that to fit I had to grind some fins from the head and use the 77 6 fin style aluminum finned exhaust manifold. Bear in mind the exhaust manifold where it matched up to the cylinder was a smaller opening than the cylinder port and I would have had to open it up to match the port with a due grinder, if I had completed that application, however the 77 GS6 250 has one like it that has a larger opening, but it would not fit the 77 MC5 pipe diameter. With that said, I do have a MC5 pipe I will send you some pics to your phone. This pipe would require the angled downward 250 standard style manifold. I have only seen a few early MC5 pipes that have used the straight manifold like on the 7 fin 175 engines. Mike
Michael R. Winter
I enjoy rebuilding and appreciating Pentons!
1974 250 HS Pentons-1978-1979 MX-6 175 & 250 KTM's
1976-78 125-400 RM's & 79 PE250 Suzuki & 2012 DR650
2007 CR125R Honda
1977 MC250 Maico
I believe the manifold size of the 175 and the gasket are not the same size as a 250. Different part numbers also. I don't believe if they have different part numbers that they would be the same. Bolting up and the same are two different things.
Larry P
The only difference I have seen are the number of tabs welded to the manifold, I have seen 1 or 2, or whether there are tabs to hold the Springs to the manifold, or if small loop washers bolt to the manifold to hold the springs. The manifold size and how it mounts up to the cylinder are the same on the ones I have had. It is possible that some years are different. Mike
Michael R. Winter
I enjoy rebuilding and appreciating Pentons!
1974 250 HS Pentons-1978-1979 MX-6 175 & 250 KTM's
1976-78 125-400 RM's & 79 PE250 Suzuki & 2012 DR650
2007 CR125R Honda
1977 MC250 Maico
The size of the opening is different. You can see that in the two different gaskets. The bolt pattern is the same but the internal hole is different. Hold the gaskets up to each other and you will see this. Thus different part numbers. Part numbers have been different for all years.
Larry P
The square plate at the back of the manifold may have a smaller opening on the 175 but can be easily opened up with a die grinder to match on the smaller manifold to the larger 250 opening. Where the pipe slips on is the same. I imagine that is why you see people trying to sell a 175 pipe listed as a 250 because they're confused about the size of the inlet since it is the same. Mike
Michael R. Winter
I enjoy rebuilding and appreciating Pentons!
1974 250 HS Pentons-1978-1979 MX-6 175 & 250 KTM's
1976-78 125-400 RM's & 79 PE250 Suzuki & 2012 DR650
2007 CR125R Honda
1977 MC250 Maico
If you are opening it up by grinding then obviously they are NOT THE SAME! Which is what I said and not what you were stating.
Larry P
The whole point of this Larry is that the pipe fits on the manifold the same. Since I have fit one to a chassis, I believe using the 77 MC5 175 pipe and grinding the head for clearance with the 77 MC5 alumin finned manifold is a better fit. Mike
Michael R. Winter
I enjoy rebuilding and appreciating Pentons!
1974 250 HS Pentons-1978-1979 MX-6 175 & 250 KTM's
1976-78 125-400 RM's & 79 PE250 Suzuki & 2012 DR650
2007 CR125R Honda
1977 MC250 Maico
Just pointing out that you said and I quote, "The earlier 7 fin is the same as the 250". You said this right after I said, "I guess you are knowing the manifold is a different size". Again working and being the same are two different things. One infers that there is nothing but bolt on and the other infers modification is needed.
Larry P
No one said anything about taking a early design 175 manifold off of the 175 cylinder he wants to use on his engine, it was only whether the 250 pipe would fit it, which it is the same diameter. The only manifold change that would be required is if he uses the actual 77 175 MC5 pipe. That would require a different manifold. Mike
Michael R. Winter
I enjoy rebuilding and appreciating Pentons!
1974 250 HS Pentons-1978-1979 MX-6 175 & 250 KTM's
1976-78 125-400 RM's & 79 PE250 Suzuki & 2012 DR650
2007 CR125R Honda
1977 MC250 Maico
You can try to say it nine different ways but they are not the same and you said they were which was directly after I said they were different. You were not correct and I am pointing it out because you often try to correct what people say here and your experience is limited and in this instance it shows. But it is ok go ahead and try to say it where it sounds different. By the way the 250 pipe fits a bit looser on the 175 manifold than it does on a 250 manifold and it is because the manifolds are different.
Larry P
All I was stating is the size is the same and it would fit. You tried to make it sound like it wouldn't. Mike
Michael R. Winter
I enjoy rebuilding and appreciating Pentons!
1974 250 HS Pentons-1978-1979 MX-6 175 & 250 KTM's
1976-78 125-400 RM's & 79 PE250 Suzuki & 2012 DR650
2007 CR125R Honda
1977 MC250 Maico
WRONG! The size is not the same or the gaskets would be the same and both pipes would fit on both manifolds. I never said it would not work. I said they were a different size and they are.
Larry P
No one is changing any gaskets the manifold is the manifold for that cylinder it would have been factory on that cylinder and it should stay on that cylinder with the same style gasket, unless he uses the other type manifold with the 77 MC5 style pipe which might require a little Port matching. Mike
Michael R. Winter
I enjoy rebuilding and appreciating Pentons!
1974 250 HS Pentons-1978-1979 MX-6 175 & 250 KTM's
1976-78 125-400 RM's & 79 PE250 Suzuki & 2012 DR650
2007 CR125R Honda
1977 MC250 Maico
Plain and simple Mike you were wrong when you said they were the same. Just own up to it and let it go. Trying to explain does not change what I said or what you said. It is in print and wrong is wrong! The 175 manifold not fitting the 250 pipe as well makes a small difference in performance. That small stuff makes a different sometimes on the track. I realize from your perspective it matters not if you are just running it up and down in a field.
Larry P
I'm just trying to help from the experience that I have doing the same type of thing that Bob is. I'm not sure what you're trying to do. Mike
Michael R. Winter
I enjoy rebuilding and appreciating Pentons!
1974 250 HS Pentons-1978-1979 MX-6 175 & 250 KTM's
1976-78 125-400 RM's & 79 PE250 Suzuki & 2012 DR650
2007 CR125R Honda
1977 MC250 Maico
I was just showing that you were saying I was wrong and you were incorrect. Don't try to correct someone if you are wrong, it is that simple. I don't expect you to actually admit it but it is in black and white. I have seen you do this before when you were not quite on target and never said anything but this time you did it to what I said and I will weigh my experience with these bikes over 35-40 years and the thousands of races I have had on them against yours anytime. Nuff said!
Larry P
Enough! Let the buyer and potential seller work out the details in this special request/application. I'm sure there is some expectation by Bob that this is not a bolt on and go transaction.
Dale Fisher
Penton Owners Group - President/Memberships
POG Merchandise
Mudlark Registry
Facebook - Penton Owners Group - Administrator
Facebook - Cheney Racing Group - Administrator
It was already over Dale. The point was made and Bob does understand, I am sure, there is some modification necessary. My initial question to HIM was only to make sure he knew that and then it became something else. When someone says I am wrong and I am not or contradicts what I know to be true I will Always speak up. This is especially true if that guy just a week or so back texted me repeatedly climbing up my ass telling me I should have bought a different bike than I did because he would have gotten paid to go get the other bike. So please don't try and jump on me as I said Nuff said and was done.
Larry P
You don't seen to understand Larry. You are not the buyer or seller.
Please no further comments on this post.
Dale Fisher
Penton Owners Group - President/Memberships
POG Merchandise
Mudlark Registry
Facebook - Penton Owners Group - Administrator
Facebook - Cheney Racing Group - Administrator
You don't seem to understand Dale. In trying to help Bob I asked a simple question not knowing if he was aware of the fact that the manifolds were different and then someone else said they were the same and that was debated. Now you try to jump me about it and you are off base. Plus you jump me and only me about it after I said I was done with it. At least be fair about it. Perhaps you for some reason don't wish to be fair? I am done with iot. All that is going on now is me defending my right to ask a question and defend my point of view and not be told to shut up.
Larry P
My 76 has loop washers not tabs.....
Quotequote:Originally posted by 454MRW
The only difference I have seen are the number of tabs welded to the manifold, I have seen 1 or 2, or whether there are tabs to hold the Springs to the manifold, or if small loop washers bolt to the manifold to hold the springs. The manifold size and how it mounts up to the cylinder are the same on the ones I have had. It is possible that some years are different. Mike
Michael R. Winter
I enjoy rebuilding and appreciating Pentons!
1974 250 HS Pentons-1978-1979 MX-6 175 & 250 KTM's
1976-78 125-400 RM's & 79 PE250 Suzuki & 2012 DR650
2007 CR125R Honda
1977 MC250 Maico
1976 MC 5 Original Owner
1982 Suzuki PE 175
1976 Penton 175 XC
1985 20' Hi Point trailer
I guess you are knowing the manifold is a different size?
Larry P
The earlier 7 fin is the same as a 250. Let me look in the shop and see what I have. Mike
Michael R. Winter
I enjoy rebuilding and appreciating Pentons!
1974 250 HS Pentons-1978-1979 MX-6 175 & 250 KTM's
1976-78 125-400 RM's & 79 PE250 Suzuki & 2012 DR650
2007 CR125R Honda
1977 MC250 Maico
Bob, I actually installed a 77 style MC5 175 MC5 pipe in a 76 MC5 125 chassis with an old-style (1975) 7 fin engine at one time. In order to get that to fit I had to grind some fins from the head and use the 77 6 fin style aluminum finned exhaust manifold. Bear in mind the exhaust manifold where it matched up to the cylinder was a smaller opening than the cylinder port and I would have had to open it up to match the port with a due grinder, if I had completed that application, however the 77 GS6 250 has one like it that has a larger opening, but it would not fit the 77 MC5 pipe diameter. With that said, I do have a MC5 pipe I will send you some pics to your phone. This pipe would require the angled downward 250 standard style manifold. I have only seen a few early MC5 pipes that have used the straight manifold like on the 7 fin 175 engines. Mike
Michael R. Winter
I enjoy rebuilding and appreciating Pentons!
1974 250 HS Pentons-1978-1979 MX-6 175 & 250 KTM's
1976-78 125-400 RM's & 79 PE250 Suzuki & 2012 DR650
2007 CR125R Honda
1977 MC250 Maico
I believe the manifold size of the 175 and the gasket are not the same size as a 250. Different part numbers also. I don't believe if they have different part numbers that they would be the same. Bolting up and the same are two different things.
Larry P
The only difference I have seen are the number of tabs welded to the manifold, I have seen 1 or 2, or whether there are tabs to hold the Springs to the manifold, or if small loop washers bolt to the manifold to hold the springs. The manifold size and how it mounts up to the cylinder are the same on the ones I have had. It is possible that some years are different. Mike
Michael R. Winter
I enjoy rebuilding and appreciating Pentons!
1974 250 HS Pentons-1978-1979 MX-6 175 & 250 KTM's
1976-78 125-400 RM's & 79 PE250 Suzuki & 2012 DR650
2007 CR125R Honda
1977 MC250 Maico
The size of the opening is different. You can see that in the two different gaskets. The bolt pattern is the same but the internal hole is different. Hold the gaskets up to each other and you will see this. Thus different part numbers. Part numbers have been different for all years.
Larry P
The square plate at the back of the manifold may have a smaller opening on the 175 but can be easily opened up with a die grinder to match on the smaller manifold to the larger 250 opening. Where the pipe slips on is the same. I imagine that is why you see people trying to sell a 175 pipe listed as a 250 because they're confused about the size of the inlet since it is the same. Mike
Michael R. Winter
I enjoy rebuilding and appreciating Pentons!
1974 250 HS Pentons-1978-1979 MX-6 175 & 250 KTM's
1976-78 125-400 RM's & 79 PE250 Suzuki & 2012 DR650
2007 CR125R Honda
1977 MC250 Maico
If you are opening it up by grinding then obviously they are NOT THE SAME! Which is what I said and not what you were stating.
Larry P
The whole point of this Larry is that the pipe fits on the manifold the same. Since I have fit one to a chassis, I believe using the 77 MC5 175 pipe and grinding the head for clearance with the 77 MC5 alumin finned manifold is a better fit. Mike
Michael R. Winter
I enjoy rebuilding and appreciating Pentons!
1974 250 HS Pentons-1978-1979 MX-6 175 & 250 KTM's
1976-78 125-400 RM's & 79 PE250 Suzuki & 2012 DR650
2007 CR125R Honda
1977 MC250 Maico
Just pointing out that you said and I quote, "The earlier 7 fin is the same as the 250". You said this right after I said, "I guess you are knowing the manifold is a different size". Again working and being the same are two different things. One infers that there is nothing but bolt on and the other infers modification is needed.
Larry P
No one said anything about taking a early design 175 manifold off of the 175 cylinder he wants to use on his engine, it was only whether the 250 pipe would fit it, which it is the same diameter. The only manifold change that would be required is if he uses the actual 77 175 MC5 pipe. That would require a different manifold. Mike
Michael R. Winter
I enjoy rebuilding and appreciating Pentons!
1974 250 HS Pentons-1978-1979 MX-6 175 & 250 KTM's
1976-78 125-400 RM's & 79 PE250 Suzuki & 2012 DR650
2007 CR125R Honda
1977 MC250 Maico
You can try to say it nine different ways but they are not the same and you said they were which was directly after I said they were different. You were not correct and I am pointing it out because you often try to correct what people say here and your experience is limited and in this instance it shows. But it is ok go ahead and try to say it where it sounds different. By the way the 250 pipe fits a bit looser on the 175 manifold than it does on a 250 manifold and it is because the manifolds are different.
Larry P
All I was stating is the size is the same and it would fit. You tried to make it sound like it wouldn't. Mike
Michael R. Winter
I enjoy rebuilding and appreciating Pentons!
1974 250 HS Pentons-1978-1979 MX-6 175 & 250 KTM's
1976-78 125-400 RM's & 79 PE250 Suzuki & 2012 DR650
2007 CR125R Honda
1977 MC250 Maico
WRONG! The size is not the same or the gaskets would be the same and both pipes would fit on both manifolds. I never said it would not work. I said they were a different size and they are.
Larry P
No one is changing any gaskets the manifold is the manifold for that cylinder it would have been factory on that cylinder and it should stay on that cylinder with the same style gasket, unless he uses the other type manifold with the 77 MC5 style pipe which might require a little Port matching. Mike
Michael R. Winter
I enjoy rebuilding and appreciating Pentons!
1974 250 HS Pentons-1978-1979 MX-6 175 & 250 KTM's
1976-78 125-400 RM's & 79 PE250 Suzuki & 2012 DR650
2007 CR125R Honda
1977 MC250 Maico
Plain and simple Mike you were wrong when you said they were the same. Just own up to it and let it go. Trying to explain does not change what I said or what you said. It is in print and wrong is wrong! The 175 manifold not fitting the 250 pipe as well makes a small difference in performance. That small stuff makes a different sometimes on the track. I realize from your perspective it matters not if you are just running it up and down in a field.
Larry P
I'm just trying to help from the experience that I have doing the same type of thing that Bob is. I'm not sure what you're trying to do. Mike
Michael R. Winter
I enjoy rebuilding and appreciating Pentons!
1974 250 HS Pentons-1978-1979 MX-6 175 & 250 KTM's
1976-78 125-400 RM's & 79 PE250 Suzuki & 2012 DR650
2007 CR125R Honda
1977 MC250 Maico
I was just showing that you were saying I was wrong and you were incorrect. Don't try to correct someone if you are wrong, it is that simple. I don't expect you to actually admit it but it is in black and white. I have seen you do this before when you were not quite on target and never said anything but this time you did it to what I said and I will weigh my experience with these bikes over 35-40 years and the thousands of races I have had on them against yours anytime. Nuff said!
Larry P
Enough! Let the buyer and potential seller work out the details in this special request/application. I'm sure there is some expectation by Bob that this is not a bolt on and go transaction.
Dale Fisher
Penton Owners Group - President/Memberships
POG Merchandise
Mudlark Registry
Facebook - Penton Owners Group - Administrator
Facebook - Cheney Racing Group - Administrator
It was already over Dale. The point was made and Bob does understand, I am sure, there is some modification necessary. My initial question to HIM was only to make sure he knew that and then it became something else. When someone says I am wrong and I am not or contradicts what I know to be true I will Always speak up. This is especially true if that guy just a week or so back texted me repeatedly climbing up my ass telling me I should have bought a different bike than I did because he would have gotten paid to go get the other bike. So please don't try and jump on me as I said Nuff said and was done.
Larry P
You don't seen to understand Larry. You are not the buyer or seller.
Please no further comments on this post.
Dale Fisher
Penton Owners Group - President/Memberships
POG Merchandise
Mudlark Registry
Facebook - Penton Owners Group - Administrator
Facebook - Cheney Racing Group - Administrator
You don't seem to understand Dale. In trying to help Bob I asked a simple question not knowing if he was aware of the fact that the manifolds were different and then someone else said they were the same and that was debated. Now you try to jump me about it and you are off base. Plus you jump me and only me about it after I said I was done with it. At least be fair about it. Perhaps you for some reason don't wish to be fair? I am done with iot. All that is going on now is me defending my right to ask a question and defend my point of view and not be told to shut up.
Larry P
My 76 has loop washers not tabs.....
Quotequote:Originally posted by 454MRW
The only difference I have seen are the number of tabs welded to the manifold, I have seen 1 or 2, or whether there are tabs to hold the Springs to the manifold, or if small loop washers bolt to the manifold to hold the springs. The manifold size and how it mounts up to the cylinder are the same on the ones I have had. It is possible that some years are different. Mike
Michael R. Winter
I enjoy rebuilding and appreciating Pentons!
1974 250 HS Pentons-1978-1979 MX-6 175 & 250 KTM's
1976-78 125-400 RM's & 79 PE250 Suzuki & 2012 DR650
2007 CR125R Honda
1977 MC250 Maico
1976 MC 5 Original Owner
1982 Suzuki PE 175
1976 Penton 175 XC
1985 20' Hi Point trailer
Thanks for the lively discussion gentlemen (and an extra thanks to Mike for going thru this again offline with me at a level that even I could understand).
Between Gary and Mike, we think we have found an early (76/77) 250 pipe with straight header inlet that will work. It in two pieces right now, but - hey - 18 days till my first event. Plenty of time!