I've been talking to a fiberglass guy out in CA who will make new gas tanks for us, if there's enough demand.
He currently makes replica fiberglass tanks for Bultaco, Maico and Montesa. Those are for sale for $185 each. He'll make tanks for us if we bring him demand for six tanks. Now, he needs an old tank to use to make his molds. Thanks to Dave Withrow, I have a beat up small mx (pea) tank he can use. But he only makes them in white, with the intent that we paint them or something. I know I would buy a white one for my 400 project.
He would need to see my tank to firm up a price.
Are any of you looking for a remake or a tank to put on for racing? Let me know if there's any interest.
Glenn
Glenn,
I am very interested, as I have a bike I believe to be a 77 or 78 250 MX version. It has no tank, but I need to ID the year before I can make a commitment. What was the last year KTM had the rear frame loop above the fender?
Mick
Mick Milakovic
Delphi, IN
765-268-2570
[email protected]
Mick, I only know for sure the '73 through '75s were the same. Does anybody know if the '76 and '77 tanks are the same dimensions as the earlier ones?
Glenn
Glenn, Good investigative work. You know I would take a couple if.....
THEY CAME IN THIS COLOR
and
ANOTHER ONE LIKE THIS
Have ya got that Six Day dirty yet?
Thanks, Bob.
White is good. 73-75 MX are the same. Get this going, I'll make sure the minimum is met. I need one personally and I'll have the remaining available for sale.
Bob, I've got to figure out the color thing. Just trying to establish the year range of the shape I want made at this point.
I took the Six-Day out to Byron for jetting and break-in a couple of weeks ago. I'm going there next Saturday for some real riding. I'll let you know how it goes.
Chris, I'll contact the guy and arrange to ship my old tank off to him so he can tell us how much they'll run. I'll jump on this Monday.
Thank you all for your heads-up responses.
Glenn
Edited by - glenn Sonntag on 10/14/2002 08:15:00 AM
Edited by - glenn Sonntag on 10/14/2002 08:15:58 AM
Quotequote:
Does anybody know if the '76 and '77 tanks are the same dimensions as the earlier ones?
No they're not. '76 & '77 are wider where they straddle the frame. When Penton went to frame breathers ( vs. seat breathers ), the tanks changed.
Bob
Glenn, Make sure the tank you have is flat on the underside. Prior to the frame breather the tanks came in more to hug the center backbone. I believe they flattened out the underside to give more airflow for the frame breather. Wouldnt want to make up the wrong ones!
Mike, I just checked and it's flat. These are the kinds of things to have everybody's input on before pulling the trigger, as they say.
Did any Pentons come through that were not frame-breathers, but had the small mx fiberglass tank? The first small tanks I ever saw were on a 250 and 175 sitting side by side at my dealer in June of '73. I bought the Jackpiner. I wish I had bought the 250, also!
If anybody has a couple of cents to put in here, please let us know.
Glenn
Edited by - Glenn Sonntag on 10/14/2002 6:09:56 PM
I never saw a small mx tank until 73 too. But I have a tank that is not flat on the underside and its a small mx model?? Maybe a very early version?
I think you should replicate the tanks that came on Penton MX models from 73-75. Called "1.8 gal. gas tank MC". The part # is 52.07.001.100.
There is 3 pictured in the "past featured Pentons" photo's.
Mar. 02
Jan. 02
June 01
That would be great if that happens. Because the demand is there. So, do you need a tank to copy? Thanks Bob.
Mike, did the '76+ MC-5s have the non-flat bottom you describe? I know the Pentons were orange, but the KTMs on the West Coast came in the colors, as I recall. Maybe your tank is one of them?
Bob, I have a tank that I can sacrifice for the molds but I want to be absolutely sure it's right. If you have one of the 1.8 gal. tanks, maybe if you could ship it to me to compare with mine??? I'll e-mail you my shipping address.
As an aside, this guy also makes right side heat guard panels for '74 mx 175/250/400 models, in white only. I've ordered a couple to see what kind of a job he can do with fiberglass. I'll let you know.
Any other info will be appreciated.
Glenn
Edited by - Glenn Sonntag on 10/15/2002 12:48:54 PM
NO,I WAS REFERING TO THE 73-75 FRAME BREATHER TANKS. THE MC-5 AND GS-6 TANKS ARE DIFFERENT AND WILL NOT INTERCHANGE WITH THE EARLIER ONES. SOUNDS TO ME LIKE YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TANK TO REPLACATE.
I just was checking out some of the old Penton brochures for the '73-'75s. In looking at the pictures in detail, there is a sort of v-shape towards the front of the mx tanks, kind of where your kneecaps would be. The tank I have does not have that "v" detail. As my tank had been repainted at some point in the past, I took some sandpaper to it and found Bondo (sp?) has been applied to the sides of the tank. It does not have the original shape of a stock tank. As of now, I'm going to disqualify this tank from being used as a model for reproduction tanks. I'm going to call the fiberglass guy to see how badly the molding process affects a tank and will get back to you all tomorrow p.m. or evening, to see how we should proceed. I don't want to end up with a bunch of screwed-up tanks.
Glenn
I was tossing and turning all night as I contemplated the impasse we're at.
Just "thinking outside the box" here, what would your thoughts be on this: I have a '78 MX KTM white tank. Its shape is a little different, but not much, from the '73-'75s that we're trying to replicate.
Would there be any interest with using this tank for the exterior mold for tanks that would fit '73 all the way through '78, but provide the fiberglass guy with different tanks to use for the "underside" mold, so that tanks could be remade for all those years, all with the same exterior, but choose between the two or three different underside styles that were OEM?
I'm kind of grasping at straws here for now, but let me know your thoughts.
Glenn
Would that be any eisier for the tank maker than to just have two molds? One for 73 to 75 tanks [which will also work on 72's], and one for 76-78 tanks. The 78 tank is slightly different than the 76 and 77 tanks but will again work on all 3 of those years. I have a good 73 to 75 tank if you need another to procede.
Mike, the figerglass company was closed yesterday; therefore, I couldn't get ahold of the guy. I want to ask him what specifically the moldmaking does to the existing tank, and how he can try to minimize any effects.
Yes, it would be great if we could use your tank; but, again, I'll need to find out about damage.
I'll try the guy again today and see what I can find out.
Glenn
Glenn, You don't need to lose any sleep over this. I don't think there's any question which style tank needs to be reproduced. The 1.8 gal. MC tank that was made to fit 73 thru 75 is the most in demand. Those are the year bikes that 75% of the vintage racers are using. It needs to be as close to those dimensions and style as he can make them, with the "V" in the sides and all.
Have some patiences, you will get the correct tanks to use as patterns, I have one, and I'll bet some more will turn up if you offer some $$'s or another tank for one. Any venture like this is apt to begin with a little investment. You just need to be certain that the end result is something good enough that guys are going to want one.
I would also be concerned that the thickness of the fiberglass around the edges is comparable with a stock tank. Now if you could only figure out how to get them gel-coated colors, then most of the design questions would be answered.
Set a goal, time wise, that is resonable to meet, say Feburary, and relax, it will come together.
Does this guy have a company where he already sells reproduction body parts?(like RPM) Would we be purchasing these tanks from him, or does someone else have to sub-contract these parts from him?(who's investment is this?)
The days of desperately seeking Penton parts will soon be behind us. I will say that in another year or so, exhaust pipes, swing arms, tanks, fenders, and other needed parts, will be on the shelf waiting.
Thanks, Bob W.
Edited by - rob w on 10/18/2002 07:54:40 AM
Guys, I just talked to the tank guy and here's the story. He needs a tank to mold for the shape, but he also cuts out the petcock and gas cap fittings because he (or we?) needs to source them. The gas cap fitting is a potential problem. We may have to find somebody to make them.
Mike and Bob, I think that if we have a tank that can be destroyed, that's the first step. My tank is not going to work. And maybe Karl (Mr. Metalkfab) might have some interest here in the gas cap fitting?????
I think we're at the point where it's going to have to be a total team effort here to get this done. I'm not doing this to be a tank seller. I want tanks to be made and I'm willing to help facilitate getting it done. We need to get a tank to CA, and we need patience, as you said, Bob.
As a little background, the tank guy's name is Roger Paul Moreau at Trailer Products, Inc., in Hemet, California. I found his website a while ago and never thought of trying to have him make Penton tanks until finding out firsthand the shortage that seems to be there. He has restored vintage motorcycles, and has a Monark enduro that is his "baby." He remade the tank on that, and has worked a lot with Maico, Montesa and CZ tanks. The deal is: He's makes the molds, makes the tanks, owns the molds. He asks nothing from us except to provide a tank and buy a minimum of 6. He will sell them on his website. We invest the cost of the tank to sacrifice, and we get tanks. The color thing I think needs to be addressed down the road, after we get the first bunch made. He'll have to be convinced he can sell a bunch more in colors than just white.
His price estimate is this: 2-piece mold about $200 each. 3-piece mold $250. The Monark Tank is 3-piece. He won't know until we send him something.
If anybody wants to talk to him, his phone number is 1-909-654-7334, and if you want to visit his website, his URL is //www.pe.net/~rpm/order.htm
If you have any questions of me, please let me know. All I want out of this deal is a good, correct replica tank.
Bob, when I just looked up his URL, it is RPM!!! Have any of you bought from him before? What's the story?
Glenn
Edited by - glenn sonntag on 10/17/2002 6:12:59 PM
Edited by - glenn sonntag on 10/18/2002 09:23:30 AM
Edited by - glenn sonntag on 10/18/2002 11:56:28 AM
I have an orange Penton tank that I have been told is from a 76 - 77. It's in relatively good shape, no patches, soft spots or leaks that I know of. A little fading and the decal has some rubbing. Somebody make a reasonable offer and its yours.
Tom, I don't think the '76-'77 shape is the one that we're looking to make at this time. I appreciate your offer.
Thanks.
If there's anything going on out there as to this thread, please keep us posted. It's kind of quiet now. Do any of you have information on RPM?
Glenn
Just received the two '74 250 right side covers previously ordered. They seem a little "rough," if you know what I mean. If the gas tanks came through with a finish like this, we'd be pretty unhappy.
Private e-mails of any prior experiences is invited.
Glenn
I just received an e-mail from Roger at RPM. A guy provided mx and enduro tanks that were used to make the molds and the first set of tanks are finished as we speak. I'm going to ask if he'll send me some jpegs so we can all see what they look like. The price is $250, plus $25 for fittings. I'll get you more information as soon as it becomes available.
Glenn
Nice work Glenn! :)
Edited by - rob w on 11/18/2002 10:18:56 PM
I received a couple of jpegs today. In looking at them, the "Enduro" model is really the "Toaster" style of tank. These are not in short supply, so I don't know why this was done. Anyway, the "MX" tank is the small version that came starting in '73 and ran through '75, if I'm not mistaken, which is the style of tank I've been searching for. If you e-mail me, I will reply and attach the pictures.
There still is an issue with petcock thread sizes. I don't think Roger has found a metric size yet. Do any of you have any sources for the petcock fitting? Please let me know, or call Roger directly.
The choice of colors (none) still needs to be addressed. I'm going to buy a white one 'cause I have a 400 project to work on, but that doesn't help you who need colors. I'll let you know as things progress.
FYI, the $275 is the price for Penton Owners Group members. Others will be charged $300.
Glenn
I got an e-mail from Roger today stating that he has petcocks to fit the tanks. That makes this project complete, except as to colors. Thanks to all for their efforts to get this done.
Glenn