I have owned several 1971/2 CMF 100/125 Pentons. I think the earliest one I have seen was built in 106 or June 1971. Anyone have any input on this subject? Thanks.
Ron Carbaugh
Greetings, If you go to Production Years on the Home Page and then look under Frame Numbers you will be able to see the collected frame numbers which will show that the earliest CMF machines had a build date of June of 1971 shown as 106 on the frames. I have posted the earliest numbers below.
Discussions on this topic have concluded that the very earliest of the serial production CMF 100 / 125 machines would have a build date of June of 1971 and the very first serial production CMF machine would most likely have an actual production number of 50,000 or 50,001. Those conclusions were drawn from studying the collected numbers, not from any paperwork or input from someone who would have actual knowledge on the subject.
If anyone has a CMF Sachs powered machine with a serial number lower that 10650167, that person can go to the top of the list as far as CMF Sachs powered machine production numbers go. If you have any of these machines sitting around, or even just bare frames, please check out the serial numbers as maybe that elusive 10650000 is sitting in your shed..... Surely something signed by The Man Himself, John Penton, can find its way to anyone coming up with either 10650000 or 10650001......:)
Just for the record, as one scrolls down through the numbers below the first frame with a 7 prefix has a build date of 204, April of 1972, that is the earliest CMF Jackpiner listed in the list. For anyone not aware, when the first CMF Jackpiners were built, Penton / KTM used the existing CMF 100 / 125 frame with motor mounts built into it to allow for the installation of the KTM engine, those frames have a 7 prefix in their serial number to allow for easy identification of a KTM engine powered Jackpiner VS a Sachs powered CMF machine.
106 50167 125
106 50190 125
106 50264 125
108 50274 100-125 Frame
106 50303 100-125 Frame
106 50309 125
107 50322 100-125 Frame
108 50692
108 50713 100
108 50750 125
109 51140 125
109 51336 125
110 51494 125
110 51547 125
110 51679 125
111 51860 125
111 52040 125
112 52229 125
112 52319 125
112 52423 125
201 52593 125
201 52707 125
201 52722 125
201 52729 100-125 Frame
201 52807 100-125 Frame
201 52810 100
202 53074 125
202 53090 125
202 53091 125
202 53316 125
203 53831 125
203 53927 125
7 204 54258 175
Hope this helps....
Paul
Paul....How do I add my Six Day to the data base?
It's frame #203 53728..motor #7103503-6B.
Thanks
Steve Minor
Thanks Paul. Excellent post as always. I was hoping to see if anyone had a number lower than 10650167? Thanks for adding the early Jackpiner information.
Ron Carbaugh
Yes, some good info in this thread for sure. If someone is updating the serial number list, please add a few that our family has. We have frames 10750621, 10850886 and 10951060. I bought the 10850886 frame and some misc parts off a Craigslist ad in Oberlin, OH during the trip to the POG 50th anniversary celebration a few years ago. I'm just about finished with a restoration on 10951060 which is a 125 Six Day purchased out of New Mexico back in 2008. By the numbers, it looks like the the factory was easily producing 300-400 CMF bikes a month during these early days.
Dave McCullough
Steve, and others...
Bill Smith is the man behind the frame number list and when I asked him about how to get the numbers to him he supplied me with the paragraph below from the POG website. Bill also said that he has some numbers that folks have sent him that he will be adding to the list in due time.
It is safe to say that without the efforts of Bill much of the frame serial number information would never have been gathered, evaluated and listed. I remember years ago he and I discussed the frame numbers one evening, not long afterward he called with his evaluation of what the numbers meant, I guess you might say he cracked the code...:) It was an exciting time to be sure..... Below is the info from the POG website...
Below you will find hyperlinks to a Frame Number List and a Engine Number List. These lists are comprised of numbers that I found on the old Bike Registry, those given to me by friends and some found on the POG message board. In any case, I hope this allows you to enjoy our passion with even more interest and enthusiasm than ever before. If you do have numbers and would like them to be included on this list (your name will be kept confidential and not appear on the list), please email the information to
[email protected] Be sure to include the full frame number and engine size if known. If you want to send your engine information, be sure to include the full engine number.
Thanks to all for suppling Bill with your frame / engine info, the more numbers that he has the more info can be deducted from the list. Hopefully very soon we will all be able to get back to a more "normal" life, before we all get ramped up lets get those frame numbers and get them off to Bill at
[email protected]Paul
Greetings, If you go to Production Years on the Home Page and then look under Frame Numbers you will be able to see the collected frame numbers which will show that the earliest CMF machines had a build date of June of 1971 shown as 106 on the frames. I have posted the earliest numbers below.
Discussions on this topic have concluded that the very earliest of the serial production CMF 100 / 125 machines would have a build date of June of 1971 and the very first serial production CMF machine would most likely have an actual production number of 50,000 or 50,001. Those conclusions were drawn from studying the collected numbers, not from any paperwork or input from someone who would have actual knowledge on the subject.
If anyone has a CMF Sachs powered machine with a serial number lower that 10650167, that person can go to the top of the list as far as CMF Sachs powered machine production numbers go. If you have any of these machines sitting around, or even just bare frames, please check out the serial numbers as maybe that elusive 10650000 is sitting in your shed..... Surely something signed by The Man Himself, John Penton, can find its way to anyone coming up with either 10650000 or 10650001......:)
Just for the record, as one scrolls down through the numbers below the first frame with a 7 prefix has a build date of 204, April of 1972, that is the earliest CMF Jackpiner listed in the list. For anyone not aware, when the first CMF Jackpiners were built, Penton / KTM used the existing CMF 100 / 125 frame with motor mounts built into it to allow for the installation of the KTM engine, those frames have a 7 prefix in their serial number to allow for easy identification of a KTM engine powered Jackpiner VS a Sachs powered CMF machine.
106 50167 125
106 50190 125
106 50264 125
108 50274 100-125 Frame
106 50303 100-125 Frame
106 50309 125
107 50322 100-125 Frame
108 50692
108 50713 100
108 50750 125
109 51140 125
109 51336 125
110 51494 125
110 51547 125
110 51679 125
111 51860 125
111 52040 125
112 52229 125
112 52319 125
112 52423 125
201 52593 125
201 52707 125
201 52722 125
201 52729 100-125 Frame
201 52807 100-125 Frame
201 52810 100
202 53074 125
202 53090 125
202 53091 125
202 53316 125
203 53831 125
203 53927 125
7 204 54258 175
Hope this helps....
Paul
Paul....How do I add my Six Day to the data base?
It's frame #203 53728..motor #7103503-6B.
Thanks
Steve Minor
Thanks Paul. Excellent post as always. I was hoping to see if anyone had a number lower than 10650167? Thanks for adding the early Jackpiner information.
Ron Carbaugh
Yes, some good info in this thread for sure. If someone is updating the serial number list, please add a few that our family has. We have frames 10750621, 10850886 and 10951060. I bought the 10850886 frame and some misc parts off a Craigslist ad in Oberlin, OH during the trip to the POG 50th anniversary celebration a few years ago. I'm just about finished with a restoration on 10951060 which is a 125 Six Day purchased out of New Mexico back in 2008. By the numbers, it looks like the the factory was easily producing 300-400 CMF bikes a month during these early days.
Dave McCullough
Steve, and others...
Bill Smith is the man behind the frame number list and when I asked him about how to get the numbers to him he supplied me with the paragraph below from the POG website. Bill also said that he has some numbers that folks have sent him that he will be adding to the list in due time.
It is safe to say that without the efforts of Bill much of the frame serial number information would never have been gathered, evaluated and listed. I remember years ago he and I discussed the frame numbers one evening, not long afterward he called with his evaluation of what the numbers meant, I guess you might say he cracked the code...:) It was an exciting time to be sure..... Below is the info from the POG website...
Below you will find hyperlinks to a Frame Number List and a Engine Number List. These lists are comprised of numbers that I found on the old Bike Registry, those given to me by friends and some found on the POG message board. In any case, I hope this allows you to enjoy our passion with even more interest and enthusiasm than ever before. If you do have numbers and would like them to be included on this list (your name will be kept confidential and not appear on the list), please email the information to
[email protected] Be sure to include the full frame number and engine size if known. If you want to send your engine information, be sure to include the full engine number.
Thanks to all for suppling Bill with your frame / engine info, the more numbers that he has the more info can be deducted from the list. Hopefully very soon we will all be able to get back to a more "normal" life, before we all get ramped up lets get those frame numbers and get them off to Bill at
[email protected]Paul
After checking my frames and bikes I own 10650167. Thanks
Ron Carbaugh