Penton Owners Group

General Discussion => Penton Talk => Topic started by: metalkfab on December 27, 2002, 01:10:09 PM

Title: Call To Arms
Post by: metalkfab on December 27, 2002, 01:10:09 PM
The Missouri Vintage MotoCross Series is having a having a First Annual 100cc race,sponsored by Strictly Hodaka on May 24th.Any Pog members(Berkshire enabled) willing to the task,please mark this date.Web site ://www.movmx.com
Title: Call To Arms
Post by: Jeff D on December 29, 2002, 02:20:54 PM
Curtis Harper is building a complete new VINTAGE FRIENDLY track for the MOVMX series races at his place.  ALL POG'rs (not just Berkshire-ites) will love it!  It will have something for everyone...good jumps, off-cambers, hills (up and down) twisties, and at least one WFO straight-away.  Total track length will be at least a mile!  He's had work parties out there the past 2 weekends clearing brush to make it safe for racers and spectator-friendly as well.  If anyone remembers the "old track" that went up the hill and through the pasture on the right of the driveway (last 2 years have been on the left), this is where the new track will be, except that it will be tons better than the original old track.  Party on!

Jeff DeBell
Title: Call To Arms
Post by: tlanders on December 30, 2002, 12:37:17 PM
Looks like I need to get a 100cc Sachs engine or a red tank for my Six Day!!!

 
Title: Call To Arms
Post by: tlanders on December 31, 2002, 11:02:07 AM
AirBob,

The 100cc Hodakas I believe are reed valved. Can a 100cc Sachs compete? Did or does anyone make a reed kit for the 100cc Sachs? Did the Bershire exist in 1972 when the CMF frame came out? When did the Bershire stop being produced? It did use the same frame as the Six Day right? Phast Phil wants me to put one together for the race. Any other Bershires going to this?

Teddy

 
Title: Call To Arms
Post by: Rocket on December 31, 2002, 11:56:30 AM
Teddy
Just happen to have an extra red Berkshire tank.  Can't imagine you would be the first to ever run a 125 as a 100!!
Rocket

 
Title: Call To Arms
Post by: tlanders on December 31, 2002, 12:32:00 PM
I guess I need a cylinder, head and piston in addition to the tank!!! Can I use the Six Day pipe with it? Anyone have these parts? What do you want for the tank Rod? email me at [email protected]. Thanks

Teddy

 
Title: Call To Arms
Post by: tlanders on December 31, 2002, 12:35:37 PM
I have a couple red tanks, but they are the big 1975 variety, I would expect the bershire tank would be a small mx tank like my CMF Six Day has right?

 
Title: Call To Arms
Post by: metalkfab on December 31, 2002, 01:47:16 PM
The small MX tank was available on any Penton.If you bought a Penton with the enduro setup it had the larger toaster tank.If it was setup for MX it usually came with the small tank.As for the pipe.I've found that they were identical,however if you hopped up the motor with specs from Penton Imports they spec'd a smaller stinger and shorter cone on the chamber.Al Buehner might have a 100cc top end.
Title: Call To Arms
Post by: Rocket on December 31, 2002, 02:18:08 PM
Teddy
My red tank is a toaster style.
Rocket

 
Title: Call To Arms
Post by: Dwight Rudder on December 31, 2002, 02:34:30 PM
I love Hodaka 100s. I have several. I am also in process of building a 1970 Steel Tank 100 Berkshire. I believe this actually might be better as a 100 than the 1972 CMF type. Smaller frame. I remember when ( Adm.) Rick Grant had a factory ported Sachs / Hercules 100cc. The thing ran like a 175 for a short while. They had widened the exhaust port a bit too much without a bridge.  I think AHRMA ought to give better recognition to 100cc machines.
Cher'o,

Dwight Rudder
7 time ISDT / E medalist
7 time National Enduro Class Champion.
Title: Call To Arms
Post by: tlanders on December 31, 2002, 03:14:55 PM
Thanks for checking in Dwight. Didn't Penton go to the CMF design to achieve better handling or wasn't the result better handling? Is the CFM frame with plastic tank heavier or lighter than the steel tank frame and tank? I really believe that Kent K is right when he says that rider weight is more important than frame weight, so therefore, handling and power are the important variables. So does the steel tank handle better than the CMF design?

 
Title: Call To Arms
Post by: tlanders on December 31, 2002, 11:02:07 AM
AirBob,

The 100cc Hodakas I believe are reed valved. Can a 100cc Sachs compete? Did or does anyone make a reed kit for the 100cc Sachs? Did the Bershire exist in 1972 when the CMF frame came out? When did the Bershire stop being produced? It did use the same frame as the Six Day right? Phast Phil wants me to put one together for the race. Any other Bershires going to this?

Teddy

 
Title: Call To Arms
Post by: Rocket on December 31, 2002, 11:56:30 AM
Teddy
Just happen to have an extra red Berkshire tank.  Can't imagine you would be the first to ever run a 125 as a 100!!
Rocket

 
Title: Call To Arms
Post by: tlanders on December 31, 2002, 12:32:00 PM
I guess I need a cylinder, head and piston in addition to the tank!!! Can I use the Six Day pipe with it? Anyone have these parts? What do you want for the tank Rod? email me at [email protected]. Thanks

Teddy

 
Title: Call To Arms
Post by: tlanders on December 31, 2002, 12:35:37 PM
I have a couple red tanks, but they are the big 1975 variety, I would expect the bershire tank would be a small mx tank like my CMF Six Day has right?

 
Title: Call To Arms
Post by: metalkfab on December 31, 2002, 01:47:16 PM
The small MX tank was available on any Penton.If you bought a Penton with the enduro setup it had the larger toaster tank.If it was setup for MX it usually came with the small tank.As for the pipe.I've found that they were identical,however if you hopped up the motor with specs from Penton Imports they spec'd a smaller stinger and shorter cone on the chamber.Al Buehner might have a 100cc top end.
Title: Call To Arms
Post by: Rocket on December 31, 2002, 02:18:08 PM
Teddy
My red tank is a toaster style.
Rocket

 
Title: Call To Arms
Post by: Dwight Rudder on December 31, 2002, 02:34:30 PM
I love Hodaka 100s. I have several. I am also in process of building a 1970 Steel Tank 100 Berkshire. I believe this actually might be better as a 100 than the 1972 CMF type. Smaller frame. I remember when ( Adm.) Rick Grant had a factory ported Sachs / Hercules 100cc. The thing ran like a 175 for a short while. They had widened the exhaust port a bit too much without a bridge.  I think AHRMA ought to give better recognition to 100cc machines.
Cher'o,

Dwight Rudder
7 time ISDT / E medalist
7 time National Enduro Class Champion.
Title: Call To Arms
Post by: tlanders on December 31, 2002, 03:14:55 PM
Thanks for checking in Dwight. Didn't Penton go to the CMF design to achieve better handling or wasn't the result better handling? Is the CFM frame with plastic tank heavier or lighter than the steel tank frame and tank? I really believe that Kent K is right when he says that rider weight is more important than frame weight, so therefore, handling and power are the important variables. So does the steel tank handle better than the CMF design?

 
Title: Call To Arms
Post by: metalkfab on April 25, 2003, 04:35:17 PM
Is anybody in POG going to this race?If you visit Strictly Hodaka's website they give a decent talk about this event.They also have INSULTED all of us,calling us the "yahoo Penton group".
Title: Call To Arms
Post by: AndyL on April 25, 2003, 04:55:12 PM
I will be attending the MOVMX Memorial Weekend races at Harpers Moto Guzzi track!

If I have my Jackpiner re-assembled by then I will run it on Sunday in the +40 class.  I dont own any Penton 100's, so I will have to resort to running the 74 Super Rat that I am building up, on Sat for the 100cc race. (I normally run a Hodaka Super Combat in Sportsman 125 Novice, #14u). Should be a blast!

The track is very vintage friendly but is still a hoot to ride.  We rode the track back on the season opener, March 16th, and it was fun.  There were 203 entries for teh day.  Curtis Harper who runs the series said he may add some additional turns and length for the Memorial races but it will be essentially the same track.

MOVMX does have a pretty good Penton showing in the series. I will be able to add my Jackpiner to Teddys "fleet" and several other Pentons in the series.  Isnt Fred running a Penton now?

If you are in the area, should be a fun weekend!


Andy
Title: Call To Arms
Post by: tlanders on April 25, 2003, 05:27:05 PM
Fred does have a Hare Scrambler that he is planning on racing. He raced it at Thayer last fall and got a first place in his class. With all the work I have been doing building a new MC5 and all the traveling I have had to do these last few months, I will not have time to do a 100cc Berkshire for the Memorial Day weekend, especially since I haven't looked for or purchased the cylinder and head yet!!!! The weekend will be great including a motocross school on Saturday. Hope we get a lot of Pentons. PENTONS RULE!!!!

Teddy

 
Title: Call To Arms
Post by: Larry Perkins on April 26, 2003, 06:36:20 AM
Even with the reed valve the properly ported Berkshire would eat up the Hodaka Super Rat.  The last time MOVMX saw a Berkshire was with Jesse motoring one to victory three seasons ago in his very first race ever.  It was the bike that Ted now owns with a 100 topend.  The 100 and 125 used the same pipe.  The Penton had better cooling, better handling, and far superior stock workmanship.  

I won the GNC 100cc Schoolboy Championship on one in the Astrodome when "The Day had ended for the 125 Six Day because of the Japanese invasion.  I believe this was possibly the last Amatuer title won in MX on a Penton until Vintage came around.  I found that old Berkshire and bought it about a year ago but it is a future restore project and a ways from ready.  Alas.

 
Title: Call To Arms
Post by: HD Raidel on April 27, 2003, 09:00:03 PM
I was almost ready to volunteer to go battle those nasty Hodaka people when two things came to mind...  First, their Hodakas will probably never finish a moto (mine never did; and second, (i have seen a lot of this group and you would seem to eat as well as I do)...well...we probably belong on bigger bikes!!!
Title: Call To Arms
Post by: john durrill on April 28, 2003, 09:35:00 AM
Teddy,
 The main , pilot jet are different. drop one size on the countershaft sprocket. the pipe is the same.The swap is easy to make a 100 from a 125 or visa versa. cylinder, head , piston kit, jets and a countershaft sprocket.
 I had  a 100 and use it in enduros for a year. you will love the  bike.
John D.

 
Title: Call To Arms
Post by: Mike Lenz on April 29, 2003, 10:06:53 PM
Ditto Larry. A good running penton will have any hodi for lunch,engine wise. And handling,not even from the same planet! Teddy, for MX as Carl Cranke use to say "reed valves are nothing more than obstruction in the intake tract!".

 
Title: Call To Arms
Post by: tlanders on May 01, 2003, 03:55:36 PM
OK, I have found a cylinder, head, piston, and countershaft sprocket and I should have them in hand by early next week. What do I do with the jetting? The carb is a 27.5mm Bing. I will be gone to Texas for 5 days so I won't be able to start on the Bershire project until the week before the race in Kansas City. If all goes well and I can get the jetting right, we might have one Bershire to battle the Hodies. Larry Perkins is also trying to get one ready for this race.

Teddy

 
Title: Call To Arms
Post by: metalkfab on May 01, 2003, 04:16:11 PM
If all goes well on the Home Front,I'll be there with my (actually,the wife's) restored Berkshire,She says "Go Racing,just don't scratch the paint".
Title: Call To Arms
Post by: john durrill on May 01, 2003, 06:49:52 PM
Ok Teddy ,
 heres what i have in my notes from years ago.
 Main jet 130/135
 needle jet 273
 pilot jet 35
 this was with out the 404 vaporizer
 here is what John P sent out with  the carb article.
 slide #1
needle #4
main jet 130
needle jet 2.76
pilot jet 45 or 35
atomizer 404
 air screw 1 to 1 and 1/2 turns out
 needle 3 rd  grove from the top.
 your air filter ( type and manufacture , paper , foam and if its a uni or another brand can matter etc.) and the oil to gas ratio can change all this a little.
 i would have a 130, 135, 140 main
a 2.76, 2.73 needle jet
and a 35, 40 and 45 pilot on hand when you jet the bike.
 get it good and hot ( at least 15 min of running) befor you jet it.
 have enough new plugs on hand to do a good check when you think you have it.
 good luck Teddy! go get um.
John & Peter



Edited by - john durrill on 05/01/2003  6:53:52 PM
Title: Call To Arms
Post by: tlanders on May 02, 2003, 10:45:41 AM
Thanks John. Why don't you bring up your 175cc Sachs engined Six Day and put a red tank on it and call it a Berkshire? We'll show those Hodies!!!!!

 
Title: Call To Arms
Post by: john durrill on May 02, 2003, 01:07:45 PM
I don't think so Teddy , chuckle chuckle
 We went to a lot of trouble to get it where its not a threat to a Jackpiner, hoping they would let me ride in the vintage class.  with  only 4 inches of travel in the rear its not competitive against the 76 and up machines.
 do you have a pipe for a 72 to 75 six-days?
 all you need is the header and a good front cone. we can send you the  Carl crank pipe mod's for a 100cc mx bike. aircone can role you a rearcone and the center section. I would not  go with the porting mod's in the article as I think they would shorten piston and ring life too much. If you cannot get someone to weld it up for you Peter and I can, we have a 72 frame and can get the pipe welded up to fit right. you would need to add a scliencer when you got the pipe back, but the pipe would fit. it would give some boost in power on the 100 with out shortening the life of the motor.
John & Peter

 
Title: Call To Arms
Post by: tlanders on May 02, 2003, 02:19:51 PM
I have a "trick" pipe made out of aluminum. It's very short. A couple people have told me who made the pipe, but I can never remember it. I will stay with this pipe, it works very well.

Teddy