Penton Owners Group

What a thrill to find your site.  It brought back a flood of memories (I had huge crushes the Penton boys and went to the ISDT in MA to photo them).  I only rode for a very short period of time but won every powder puff (how I hated that name) I entered - minus the one or two where I broke down.  The only event names I remember are Alligator and Stone Mountain and I remember how huge the trophies were...almost as tall as me.  My adrenaline runs just at the smell and sound of a two-stroke.

My question is...... after my hiatus raising three girls (who raced horses instead of bikes), I want to start riding enduros again.  The new bikes are too tall and too expensive – so is it reasonable to think that I could buy a vintage bike and be able to run it and find parts to maintain it.  I remember that I used to trash an awful lot of parts – particularly levers, cables, fenders, gas tanks, brakes and chains – every race and I worry that parts would be a real problem for an older bike.

BTW I am in Illinois (Chicago area) so may not be too far from Ohio resources for parts.


 

Lynn, No racing a vintage bike is time consuming and parts are hard to come by. Some are almost impossible. You don't want to ride your vintage mount on a regular basis against modern bikes.
I would suggest something like the Yamaha TTR125E.  Light and Low. Put on some "Bark Busters" to protect your hands and controls. Go out and have fun. I only ride my vintage machines a couple times a year. I am also very careful and I don't compete against modern machines with these bikes. The ISDTR is held once a year, usually in October. This is a celebration of the riders and machines of the peak of ISDT competition. Very low key competition , lots of comraderie. Get autographs, talk to and ride with your hero's of the 60s, 70s, and early 80's. This years event will be held near Dalton, MA. It is also the 30 year anneversary of the first and only ISDT held in the USA. The only other event of this type held in the USA was 21 years later and it was the ISDE.
Cher'o,

Dwight Rudder
7 time ISDT / E medalist
7 time National Enduro Class Champion.

Thanks Dwight for taking the time to give the advice........ it must be good... given your credentials and the fact that no one has offered any to the contrary.

Thanks also for the info on the ISDT reunion, however, it looks like the entries have filled and besides..... it would probably be a big humbling to ride with that bunch.

BTW, if you rode in the Berkshire event, let me know your number.  I just moved, but when I dig out...am going to see if I can find my old photos.


 

Im not sure I agree. You may have more fun racing vintage events on vintage bikes. If you go with a 72thru75 Penton most everything is avib or being remade. I have a good parts supply and would be happy to help. I live near Peoria. Getting one already restored would make things much eisier. Im restoring a 72 175 Jackpiner this winter in an effert to try to get my wife riding a little. A Jackpiner may be an excellent bike for you. I race AHRMA vintage 500 class MX and have a blast doing it. My advice,ride vintage!

 

Lynn,
I recently started riding and racing after 25 years away from this sport. I wondered about the same things. What kind of competition are you taking about?
I use to race MX before I stepped away from this sport. When I started flirting with the idea of riding again I started looking at the local modern Mx tracks and racing. I was sure that I did not want to race like that, and riding on fire roads seemed pretty boring to me. Then I discovered Vintage MX racing. The track is alot more sane. It is more like a scrambles race than even an old Motocross track. The track that is being used in this area for vintage racing has been cleaned of all rocks and the jumps are large enough to get you in the air if you dare but not enough to thrust you into the upper atmosphere like the modern tracks do.Because the track is much more sane, the racing is not nearly as hard on these old bikes. This may or may not be true in your area. Some of the old bikes are best left in the shop and only ran a couple times a year as Dwight has suggested. They are much too rare and need to be preserved. There are others old bikes that can be raced. Getting parts for these bikes is a lot easier. Maybe some of the other guys can help you with which is which. Many people are working to reproduce some of the harder to find parts on some of the more popular bikes. I am sure that this will continue to be true as more and more people discover the joys of vintage racing.
I think that you will find that being alittle older and wiser will change the way you ride. You just might find that you will not be as hard on bikes as you use to be. It is my opinion that trail riding a vintage bike is alot harder on bikes than is Moto cross. In the woods you will incounter all sorts of unknown obstacles that can cause damage to you beloved steed. If you are trail riding a two stroke, you will find that long down hills are especially hard on pistons,cranks and cylinders. At least on a MX track they will remove large rocks and fallen logs and it is not too often that you will be asked to cross a creek or ride down a two mile hill. I think that is important to preserve vintage racing in all its forms because the competition. It is as much a part of the history as is the bikes.
I hope that you find just the right bike and riding style that fits you best.

Thom Green,I own and ride a 76 250 MC5 MX which I bought new.

OK, here comes another opinion!!! I have a 1999 KTM 125 EXC. The EXC is KTM's enduro model and the 125 is a blast to ride and easy to start. The 125 KTM gives me the same enjoyment that I get from my 125 Penton, but requires much less maintence and is easier on my old body.  The nice thing about a modern machine is all of the plush suspension along with the disc brakes that don't need pulled apart after each ride, like the old drum brakes. There are lots of short folks out there that have had the suspension lowered, you might just find a used, lowered machine that fits your budget. If I were you I would try out someone's 125 EXC and see what you think. I also really enjoy riding my 125 Penton from days gone by, you may just end up with more than one machine! I think several others on this site have!!!!!
Paul














 



















 

First of all, Mike,
Definitely some food for thought.  If I decide to go vintage, I would appreciate picking your brain (or maybe buying your Jackpiner if you wife hates it ).  Seriously, though, I am sure your wife will love just tooling around out in the woods and fresh air -- if not the adrenaline rush.  I am going on the 'net after this response and see what AHRMA is about.

Thom –
I guess I need to go to a few vintage and regular races to figure out which I might like.  Heck....... Now I am ready to try both!!!

I tried MX, however, there is no question that I excelled at endurance and picking my way through the swamps, creeks, logs and hillclimbs.  I remember that less than 60 people finished the Alligator the year that I won.... It was torture, but I seem to do better the worse it is and the longer it goes on.  The other thing I like with enduros is that no one is watching most of the time and spectators made me self-conscious.  Of course that was the good old days.........and you are probably right... an MX vintage race might be more appropriate now.

My two Husqvarnas and Yamaha 175 were stolen shortly before my first kid was born and that was the end of that!!! How fantastic that you still have your old bike.


 

Great to see somone going riding again. I have been off since 98. I am going again in Oct. New bike? Sure but even to me -6'2"-220 and 35 (my "generation" did not race vintage bikes) it is a priority behind a vintage bike. Maintainece? I remember putting a ring in my 93 cr250 every few races. Not to mention cleaning the powervalve. Brake pads wear out as do brake shoes. Really.. I must admit to being finiky about bike care-so I can see the newer four stroke being good.

 I will strongly agree about enduros and cross country racing. I ran one or two back in 90..and man it was hard on the bike (it was harder on me passing everyone out of the woods so they could pass me back in the woods LOL). I never raced the Penton in a cross country-since I couldn't bear to scratch and crack it up that bad.
 BTW-levers are still made-MAGURAS-not cheap but they do last. The rest of the controls are being made..H&H has I think very good racer quality palstic for the vintage Pentons.
 I just always wondered if a nice rock happened under my engine case...how long would I wait for another to be found-good enough to use but not so nice that I wouldn't want to race with it.. just some thoughts. I'm sure you will make a good decision about bikes and racing-and have fun. This board is great for help-awesome people here. James

I have bike parts in the kitchen cabinets where most people have dishes..

Lynn,
I have to agree with Paul on this one.  I love the old Penton's but give me my 200 KTM any day to ride and race.  Love the brakes and the suspension.
What years were riding District 17 Enduro's, I've been around for years, maybe I know you!!
I do have a 99 KTM 200EXC forsale if your interested, $2800.  I live straight west of Chicago almost to the Iowa border.
Rocket

 

No, Lynn , I didn't ride Dalton in 73 but was wishing I was. Guys like Doug Wilford, Paul Danik , Dane Leimbach and Jackie Penton, were my hero's then. I rode my first Nat'l Event in 1974 and rode most of the ISDT qualifiers in 75 picking up a ride with Hercules in the later half of the year. I qualified for the ISDT in 77 but broke my collarbone in an Airplane accident the same day Elvis died, Aug 16.  I qualified in 78 as a Member of TEAM YAMAHA,(Dane Leimbach and Carl Cranke were too ) but got bumped because the AMA wanted a SWM rider on the team and I was the rookie. I first attended the ISDT in 1979 Germany.
Cher'o,

Dwight Rudder
7 time ISDT / E medalist
7 time National Enduro Class Champion.

Hi Lynn, now for my 2 cent's.The main question I think should be is just how fast do you want to ride,with that being said,if you want to fly, the new bike's are the way to go,but if you want to relive some fond times you got to go vintage,  Also vintage bikes will make the new bike rider's stop and take notice! I too am coming back, from the 70's! I am now in resto stage with a 250gs. Good Luck and WELCOME BACK !!!

Thomas Carmichael

Lynn, it depends on what your desires are.  We have a couple of very talented ladies on the west coast that race AHRMA motocross and enjoy it a lot.  If you want the competition of racing, vintage racing is usually less expensive, easier on the bike and body (except I'm recovering from a broken leg I got at the vintage iron world championships a few weeks ago) and there are great friendships to be had.  It's a lot of fun.  If you just want to play ride, nothing beats the modern bikes.  I have 3cz, 1 maico, 1 husky, 1 MC5 (ktm) and several "modern" bikes.  I would only race the vintage bikes but spend a great deal of time play riding the modern bikes.  Parts have not been a problem.  Something for everyone.  Think about what you want and what type of riding experience you want to have and go for it.  The people on this site are a wealth of information.  I've been riding for over 30 years, raced for 4-5 years as a teenager, then returned to vintage racing about 10 years ago.  It's all good.  Have fun.

 

Lynn,

It sounds like enduros are the thing for you. I raced scrambles in the late 60's on a Bultaco 200 Serpa S. Then I discovered Enduros and like you fell in love with them. I bought the best enduro bike you could get in 1971, a Penton steel tank Six Day 125cc machine and road the Bershire International Two Day and the Jack Pine that year among others. In 1972 Rosemary and I moved to Missouri and I didn't ride a bike again until 2000!!! Wanting to ride enduros again, but not wanting to buy a ladder to get on a motorcycle, I found that there are only two avenues to ride a vintage bike and enjoy yourself. The first is the AHRMA Cross Country series. Borrow somebodies Jack Piner and go to Ashtabula, Ohio this Sunday. If you go there and to Casey, Il in October, I am sure you will be an AHRMA National Champion in the 0-200 Sportsman Novice class. There is another gal competing here also but she and the others in this class have only gone to one race. If you needed three races to garner the championship, go to Montgomery, AL in November also. You can check out the point standings at the AHRMA site under the H&H Cross Country series. These cross country races are really fun. They are a little short at one hour long, but they are always fun.

The other fun riding to do with a vintage bike is the AMA Dual Sport series. These are usually two day, 200 mile events that are not hard but an awful lot of fun and you proceed at your own pace. Contact Lynn Burton, he puts them on here in the midwest at (501) 847-9791. I have ridden my Piner at these events and had no problem staying up with the modern bikes. It's not a race, it's a ride.

Since there are not very many opportunities to ride vintage enduros, I have gotten sucked back into vintage motocross over the last two years. It has been a ball, the best part being the comraderie with the other racers and their families. I look forward to seing the people every race more than to the actual racing.

Go to Ashtabula this Sunday, it is an easy way to get started again, only an hour race. If my Piner were ready and I was going for sure, I would offer it to you. Who has a Piner out there she could ride???

Teddy

 

I am truly moved/encouraged/enthused by the advice and VERY generous offers to help get me back in "the race" – it makes me remember why I felt so "at home" with enduro riders.  You guys are the best!!!!

Just tell me if I am weighing advice --- does "junior" versus "advanced" versus "senior" refer to knowledge or senility????  

Paul:  I looked online and found a 1999 one selling for $2,800.  That model gets great reviews at:  http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mcdirt/trailrider/ktm125.html... but I think you are right that I might need two machines .. after reading the posts ... that Jackpiner is calling me too.  I am just a little afraid of the parts issue.  

James:  I was a little confused by your reference to 4-stroke --- tell me it ain't so that the newer bikes are 4-strokes.  (although I can remember being envious of a the few Honda 4-strokes I would see chugging up a steep switch back while I am try to keep my rpms up and my front wheel down).... I obviously need to go look at the bike specs a little closer.
I got a chuckle out of your reference to woods versus open...... I remember being frustrated at being passed up out in the open, but passing over the same guy in the woods!!  What a hoot!!!

[redRocket:  I don't remember the district I rode, but it was Maryland – District 7 maybe???  Can you tell me what the seat height is on your 200 EXC.  Are you west on I80 or I88.  If it is inappropriate to talk sale on this post, you could email me at [email protected] with details or point me to it on the "Sale" post.  Thanks!

Dwight:  So it looks like I wasn't rooting for you in the Berkshire.  However, it will be interesting to go dig out and see what pictures I have of who......Penton boys, Malcom Smith, Steve McQueen...  But no question that you had some great shows and some wild setbacks (the airplane crash sounds pretty intriguing, if not inconvenient).  I can relate to the Yamaha thing... Yamaha wasn't very nurturing when I was winning on their 175.  I remember getting a lot of posters (of Daytona), letters of thanks, etc., but no money.

How incredible to have won 7 ISDT medals.  I was out surfing for ISDT results trying to get an idea of how hard it might have been to win 7.  It looks like only 4 other people matched or exceeded your record.  Sounds like Hall of Famer stuff????

Thomas C.:  I always did better at the rough terrain ....and just plain dogging it out -- not the speed – especially given my small engine sizes. Thanks for the best wishes.

Lloyd:  You have a good point about "easy on the body".  My knee still hurts where I went down playing around on a sheet of ice (without tire spikes).  I am surprised to hear that parts are not a problem.  Of course, they say everything is more bountiful in Sunny California .

Teddy:  Wow!!! Loved your call to action and was touched by your attempt to find me a ride.  I would definitely feel uncomfortable borrowing anything, but you gave me some specific stuff to shoot for.  I can't make Ohio, but I will definitely come check out the race in Casey, IL. And who knows.... I may have a ride by then.  I am not really concerned about garnering races for a championship.  In fact I usually feel bad when I beat someone.  That's another reason I liked Enduros – just out trying to beat the terrain and the clock (and your body).  The only time I felt good about beating an individual was some girl from up North who everyone told me that I would never beat (I think she ended up managing one of the ISDT Teams – not Penton -- ).

Between the races and the contacts you gave me, I really feel like I can out of the block now!!!!  Thanks a million!!!!


 

lynn-if you're smallish, consider the gas-gas pampera-they rip and even my liitle legs can touch the ground-pricier than the yammy ttr but pretty good quality-real torquey
rob

 

Rob: Thanks. I hadn't heard of the gas-gas, but it looks interesting.  The seat height is 34" and the Yamaha ttr 125 e is 30", but the gas-gas has a 21" front wheel vs. the 18" on the Yamaha.  I worry about how much harder it might be to bounce over stuff with the smaller wheels.  But I also worry that the gas-gas dealer is about 4 hours away from me......   I have a KTM dealer pretty close (but that's a 37" seat) and I have a friend (not real close, but a friend) who has a Yamaha dealership and has quoted me an excellent price.  Plus there is the whole 2 vs 4 stroke thing ....  on the flip side, I am very excited about the vintage bikes and races.  ... more food for thought...