Penton Owners Group

General Discussion => Penton Talk => Topic started by: robbersroost1 on December 26, 2003, 10:08:40 PM

Title: Information on Tyran
Post by: robbersroost1 on December 26, 2003, 10:08:40 PM
Does anyone know much about a Tyran 125. Is it some sort of a Wassell? If yes then I'm on one of those crazy missions again. No hope for me I guess? Oh well

Terry Laible
Title: Information on Tyran
Post by: jj on December 27, 2003, 08:53:01 AM
Check out this site for some Tyran info:

http://home.earthlink.net/~offroadnut/offroadnut/Tyran.htm

and this one for another photo:

http://www.calvmx.com/guestbook/tyranl.jpg

John J Slivka
Title: Information on Tyran
Post by: Dennis Jones on December 27, 2003, 09:24:35 AM
Terry, yes they were made by the Wassell factory. In the USA they were distributed by Mitsubishi, in Europe the were sold as the Wassell Gazelle. There is a 3 page feature article on them in VMX #19, this is the issue with the history of KTM in it. I have a fairly complete one that is next on my list to bring back to life.

Dennis Jones
Title: Information on Tyran
Post by: robbersroost1 on December 27, 2003, 02:16:24 PM
John & Dennis: Thanks for your reply. Now starts the hunt, does anyone know of any for sale. Just got to have one of these. Can you find the Gazelle's in the US or just Europe?

Terry Laible
Title: Information on Tyran
Post by: ksithumper on December 27, 2003, 03:53:50 PM
I have a copy of a Tyran ad somewhere. If either of you need me to dig it out and scan it, email me off list: [email protected].
Title: Information on Tyran
Post by: robbersroost1 on December 27, 2003, 06:28:42 PM
Dennis : Where do I find the VMX #19 article?

Terry Laible
Title: Information on Tyran
Post by: swamp fox on December 27, 2003, 08:27:06 PM
Terry,
You can probably still order a copy from vmx. Their website is:
//www.vmxmag.com.au///

PS - If I remember correctly, they shut down their USA distributor and everything comes from Australia.
Robert Manucy
72 Berkshire
Title: Information on Tyran
Post by: robbersroost1 on December 28, 2003, 12:32:50 PM
Where does the Dalesman fit into all this? Are they a Wassell also?

Terry Laible
Title: Information on Tyran
Post by: Dennis Jones on December 29, 2003, 07:48:04 AM
The dalesman is not a wassell but a close cousin. Peter Edmondson a designer for Dalesman left them and went to work for Ted Wassell. Good luck in your search they are very rare.

Dennis Jones
Title: Information on Tyran
Post by: ksithumper on December 29, 2003, 04:36:51 PM
Terry
I have the 3 page VMX article, also a 2 page Cycle World ad from '73. I'll send both, but be patient as my scanner is at work and I don't return until 5th Jan.

Now the curious bit- the ad is not for the 125, but for the 250 and 400. Did anyone ever see one of those?!

It's hard to see from the ad, but I'll make a fool of myself by guessing the motor is perhaps a Sprite?

Gentlemen, debate...
Title: Information on Tyran
Post by: desmond197 on December 29, 2003, 09:30:13 PM
I have three Tyran 125's. They are very nice bikes but hard to find as many have been broken up for parts. They have a stingray bike styling to them which is very cool along with the alloy tank and fenders. The wheels are real nice and one of the bikes I got the wheels went to build a Triumph racer. So I am looking for a Wassel front and rear wheels which are the same as the Penton trials bike. The were a pair of 250/405 Tyran MX bikes at mid Ohio. These were built by Sprite in the UK and had the Sprite motors which were based on the Husky 4 speed motors. Nice bikes with Alloy tanks and alloy side panels. They looked like Cheney's with Husky motors in them. The pair went for $700. I spent my money on a Penton Woodsman or I would have boutght them. You see them on Ebay every once and a while u.
Title: Information on Tyran
Post by: desmond197 on December 29, 2003, 09:40:17 PM
The Dalesman 125's used Puch motors for the MX and trails models and Sachs motors for the enduro bikes. These bikes were in part designed by Joel Robert who sold the bikes in Belgum. The dalesman bikes were made from 1969 to 1973. Some bikes had a all in one tank seat like a Bultaco Alpina others had a Lyta alloy tank like the Penton Trials and Tyran bikes. The Dalesmans are very rare mostly found in the Northest and in Texas. I am currently restoring a 125 Lynx MX bike with the Puch motor. Jim Lee worked on the frame sesign of both bikes.
Title: Information on Tyran
Post by: robbersroost1 on January 06, 2004, 07:43:04 PM
Does anyone have a picture of the Dalesman? What do these bikes go for if you find one?

Terry Laible
Title: Information on Tyran
Post by: Kip Kern on January 07, 2004, 06:50:55 AM
There was a real nice one restored at the ISDTRR museum.  There may be a picture on this site from that event.
Title: Information on Tyran
Post by: Paul Danik on January 07, 2004, 08:53:53 AM
Any of you guys who are interested in the Tyran, Wassell, Dalesman, Saracen, Sprite, Rickman, ect. need to try to find a copy of "Classic British Two-Stroke Trials Bikes" by Don Morley. This book is full of great pictures and historical information on many interesting machines. Ebay might be the place to look.

     I was able to pick up the last of the Mitsubishi International parts for the Tyran sales in the USA a couple of years back. Those guys were running stuffed "D" engines, special Sachs "Superlite" pistons, internal motoplat ignitions and one of three different E.C. Bert pipes. The Sachs Superlite pistons have a cast hole above the wristpin hole that is larger than the one for the wristpin. E.C. Bert was incharge of the race and R&D department and they were building some real gernades.  Some of the engines/cylinders have a bad case of meltdown, others seem to have worked well, some are NOS and are waiting for use. The pipes each have a specific use according to the paperwork that came with the parts. There was quite a bit of paperwork, service bulletins, an Owners manual, sales literature ect with the package. Tyran didn't last all that long but they tried!!!
Paul

Title: Information on Tyran
Post by: Mark Annan on January 07, 2004, 03:18:08 PM
Hey Paul,

Sounds like you have some special parts and info there.  Any chance you could share some of the engine info??  I'm always interested in was to "improve" the performance of the Sachs motors.  

Mark A
Title: Information on Tyran
Post by: Paul Danik on January 07, 2004, 07:56:55 PM
Mark,
   There is a page of diagrams of the porting changes and a page of text giving specs for milling the head, ect, that I will be glad to copy and send your way. Just send me your address. [email protected]
   I don't know if this info will make for any improvements but it is interesting!
Paul

Title: Information on Tyran
Post by: fastfred on January 15, 2004, 07:10:15 PM
Quotequote:Originally posted by robbersroost1

Where does the Dalesman fit into all this? Are they a Wassell also?

Terry Laible

I am pretty sure that the Dalesman frames were made at Jim Lee's factory in Batley Yorkshire. I used to live in UK until 2 and a half years ago and ride trials a bit.
Title: Information on Tyran
Post by: fastfred on January 15, 2004, 07:16:17 PM
Quotequote:Originally posted by desmond197

The Dalesman 125's used Puch motors for the MX and trails models and Sachs motors for the enduro bikes. These bikes were in part designed by Joel Robert who sold the bikes in Belgum. The dalesman bikes were made from 1969 to 1973. Some bikes had a all in one tank seat like a Bultaco Alpina others had a Lyta alloy tank like the Penton Trials and Tyran bikes. The Dalesmans are very rare mostly found in the Northest and in Texas. I am currently restoring a 125 Lynx MX bike with the Puch motor. Jim Lee worked on the frame sesign of both bikes.
Yes,correct, in fact I can still see a row of Dalesman frames in Jim Lee's workshop being welded and put together in Batley, Yorkshire in 1970. I rode one of Jim's special racers with Commando engine in. I live in Upsate Ny now but lived in the Uk until 2001. Still ride trials a bit.  Fred B
Title: Information on Tyran
Post by: imported_n/a on January 19, 2004, 09:27:41 AM

  Hi I'm Larry.I raced Dalesmans in 1970-1972.I am interested in talking Dalesmans with anyone interested.I have collected some literature and tests and am willing to share.
Title: Information on Tyran
Post by: cardojr on January 19, 2004, 03:30:12 PM
for some really good tyran pics (as well as other bikes) go to
//www.clarionconst.com-see events/other pages/motorcycles---if my kids were here i'd make them link this site-i'm not that savvy
rob
Title: Information on Tyran
Post by: cardojr on January 19, 2004, 03:31:49 PM
oops- just //www.clarionconst.com  
rob
Title: Information on Tyran
Post by: jj on January 19, 2004, 05:45:41 PM
There is a '72 Dalesman just posted for sale on the CALVMX site for $1,800.

http://www.calvmx.com/guestbook/guestbook.html

I can remember this bike up for auction on ebay a few months back by the same seller. What caught my eye was the Durham, NC location (just an hour south from my place in Danville, VA), and the entire team of Hercules ISDT bikes that he also had on auction.

John J Slivka
Title: Information on Tyran
Post by: robbersroost1 on January 19, 2004, 10:44:19 PM
I just found out there was a Dalesman Trials. Anyone got a picture? Are there any old time Scottish 6 Day results posted anywhere? Would be great to see a Penton Wassell or Dalesman in there.

Terry Laible
Title: Information on Tyran
Post by: Dennis Jones on January 20, 2004, 08:23:48 AM
The Dalesman trials was very similar to the Wassell trials. In 10 years of riding vintage trials I only know of one. I can copy a picture of the Dalesman line up from a 1972 buyers guide. Email your address if interested.

Dennis Jones
Title: Information on Tyran
Post by: RD on January 24, 2004, 01:44:21 AM
I found the Dalesman Trials bike to be interesting enough just on looks alone, that I bought one from what turned out to be one of the few distributor reps in Texas for Dalesman back in the early 70's. After months of trying to buy it from the guy, we finally reached an amount that convinced him it was advantageous for him to sell it than having it collect dust in his shop.  Anyway,  I've had this one for about 7rs or so.  It was the reps demo bike, with less than 30 miles on it (so says the vintage odometer on the right fork leg, with tyre tread condition testifying about the same).  This one is the early model tyrials, looking to be all original with the Puch 125cc, girlings, and the neat Dunlop English tyres front 2.75 x 21 and rear 4.00 x 18, and alloy fender, with the front being original high mount.  Bike came with all of the rep's Dalesman price lists, parts lists, some service bulletins, model brochures, dealer set up requirements,etc.  Evidently the Dalesman was made by Dalesman Competition Ltd., with their head office and factory being Phoenix Works, Station Road, Otley, Yorkshire, LS21 3HX, England (Telephone 0943 4 2712), and was imported or distributed in the USA by Jeckel Industries, Incorporated.   The bike came with some of the original letters to Dalesman dealers issued by Ronald N. Jeckel, President of Jeckel Industries. It is interesting in one of Mr. Jeckel's 1974 letters he tells the Dalesman dealers that..."The energy crisis had a tremendous impact on the British economy....."This crippling effect is particularly difficult for a small firm like Dalesman...". From the information I have Dalesman also sold an Enduro bike called the Scout, and an MX bike sometimes referred to as the Although I am not a Dalesman expert, I am more than interested in them (as I am with Pentons) and would appreciate learning more about the Dalesman from those willing to share. If anyone would like to correspond about Dalesman bikes, I would be more than happy to participate.

RD
Title: Information on Tyran
Post by: robbersroost1 on January 24, 2004, 05:43:37 PM
RD:
   Your story is just to cool. Please email me a picture of your bike, or better yet just sell it to me. [email protected] I just received an old motorcyclist buyers guide from Dennis Jones on the Dalesman, I could mail or email you a copy. Let me know.

Terry Laible
Title: Information on Tyran
Post by: celcius232 on January 24, 2004, 09:35:49 PM
Quotequote:Originally posted by desmond197

I have three Tyran 125's. They are very nice bikes but hard to find as many have been broken up for parts. They have a stingray bike styling to them which is very cool along with the alloy tank and fenders. The wheels are real nice and one of the bikes I got the wheels went to build a Triumph racer. So I am looking for a Wassel front and rear wheels which are the same as the Penton trials bike. The were a pair of 250/405 Tyran MX bikes at mid Ohio. These were built by Sprite in the UK and had the Sprite motors which were based on the Husky 4 speed motors. Nice bikes with Alloy tanks and alloy side panels. They looked like Cheney's with Husky motors in them. The pair went for $700. I spent my money on a Penton Woodsman or I would have boutght them. You see them on Ebay every once and a while u.

Brian S. Goodman
Title: Information on Tyran
Post by: celcius232 on January 24, 2004, 09:39:18 PM
I thought the Sprite 405s were also sold here as American Eagle Talons.  I have never found out who made the Husky clone 405 engine.  Does anyone know the source of the 405 motors?  Also the American Eagle 250s that I have seen had Sprite frames and Kawasaki rotary valve singles in them.  Brian G.
Quotequote:Originally posted by celcius232

Quotequote:Originally posted by desmond197

I have three Tyran 125's. They are very nice bikes but hard to find as many have been broken up for parts. They have a stingray bike styling to them which is very cool along with the alloy tank and fenders. The wheels are real nice and one of the bikes I got the wheels went to build a Triumph racer. So I am looking for a Wassel front and rear wheels which are the same as the Penton trials bike. The were a pair of 250/405 Tyran MX bikes at mid Ohio. These were built by Sprite in the UK and had the Sprite motors which were based on the Husky 4 speed motors. Nice bikes with Alloy tanks and alloy side panels. They looked like Cheney's with Husky motors in them. The pair went for $700. I spent my money on a Penton Woodsman or I would have boutght them. You see them on Ebay every once and a while u.

Brian S. Goodman

Brian S. Goodman
Title: Information on Tyran
Post by: robbersroost1 on January 25, 2004, 07:27:19 PM
Maybe the best Tyran out there, check out //www.clarionconst.com click other events then vintage motorcycle. There is a Wassell Trials also,plus much more. You must visit this sight. Thanks Dalesman49 for showing the way to these outstanding bikes.

Terry Laible
Title: Information on Tyran
Post by: OhioTed on February 18, 2004, 04:44:02 PM
Terry,  How much info were you able to locate on the Tyran?  I stumbled across a good bit of data published by Rick Sieman.  You can track down his stuff by going through offroad.com.  Also, you can
e-mail him at [email protected] for more info.  Good luck.  Ted
Title: Information on Tyran
Post by: Dennis Jones on February 18, 2004, 08:00:16 PM
I believe the Wassell on that site is a Woodsman that has been converted back to a trials. Check out the bobed rear fender loop and the extra mounts on the left side that would have mounted the Husky exhaust.

Dennis Jones