From time to time I have requested information from members on certain models of Pentons with hopes of using this information for future projects. In tracking these different bikes I hope to present suggestions to the Officers and Trustees of the Penton Owners Group for our shows and/or requests for models at shows by groups or promotors.
I am looking for all the Kenny Roberts Penton Short Trackers out there, any promotional material, magazine articles or any other related information. I would like copies or I will buy information on related items. Here is the information I would like initially.
1. The owner(s) and frame number of any KRP short trackers.***I own one and it is original with the correct seat, tank and engine. The serial number is #09.***
2. Any history on your bike or any others that are accounted for on this site.***My bike came from Ron Munson who purchased it in 2000 from Al Buehner.***
3. Any articles or supporting material.***I have some information on when Penton was closing out the bikes with a bulletin to the dealers.***
4. Please any questions or stories are invited.
Thanks to everyone for their time.
Ron Carbaugh
Ron, Do you have the promo flyer for this model titled "Introducing the Penton/KR", it is one page. Front- introduction and photo of the bike with Roberts and Mike Kidd. Back- there's some specs and another shot of Kidd riding it. I can fax it to you if you don't have it.
Bob
From what I'm reading here it's model name was the "Penton/KR Short Tracker"
Rob,
I would prefer a copy as opposed to a fax. You are correct on the name(Penton/KR). I intentially called it a Kenny Roberts Penton to help explain the the motorcycle to people that are not familiar with what KR stands for in the motorcyle world. But since you have some time on the clock with the KR family (seriously), you and a lot of other people know the term (KR) where I feel part of the people on the forum need more information. Thanks for your input.
Serial #41 bike located. Ron Munson owns it and it is currently being prepared as a 400(Penton). The bike was purchasd sometime back from H&H in Atlanta area.
Al Buehner has one. I don't know the number.
Paul Danik has one.
Kirk Sessions has one.
Ron Carbaugh
Ron, I know this is off subject here, but this months issue of the Motorcyclists Post up here in New England has Kenny Roberts famous Yamaha TZ750 powered dirt tracker on the front cover.If your interested, I'll mail you the paper, or the papers address, happy trails
Raymond
Raymond,
I would love to have it - read on. I can remember the race where Kenny Roberts won (I think it was Indy) and his hands were bleeding from the difficulty of steering/controling a in-line 4 cylinder 2 stroke motorcycle in the Class C Wars. It was wisely outlawed by AMA. Probably the Greatest Racer of all times(not that I am overly opinionated):D. Thanks for memories.
Please mail it to:
PO BOX 272444
Houston,Tx 77277
Ron Carbaugh
Hi Ron, Give me a day or so to finish reading up and I will mail it out to you. It says KR won at Indy on that bike. the photo was taken at Del Mar, California and you gotta guess who the rider is. I remember seeing that bike and how different it was compared to the XR 750 HD. a 2 stroke 750! That thing must fly on the straights!!
Raymond
Ron,
I think there was an article in Dirt Bike July 1977, but they called it the KTM Flat Tracker.
Donny Smith
In the Dec. 1974 Popular Cycling there's an article about a Natl. at Santa Fe Speedway. In that, there's a picture of a Penton dirt tracker with a 400 motor. The caption says "Frank Gillespie rode Al Gaskill's Penton 360 in it's race track debut". Which means there were guys wanting to use the KTM motor long before KR was commissioned to do so. In fact, this race would have been around Sept. or Oct. of 74. That could'nt have been long after the first Mint 400's arrived here. Gaskill was fast in building this one, it could have been the first Natl. caliber Penton flat tracker. I believe Al Gaskill was a Penton dealer around the Detroit area.
Ron, I know you're very busy, but I have a giant favor to ask of you, [V] and it does'nt have to be done in next month or more. I would like to make a few 250 down pipes, whether yours has one of those Carl Cranke down pipes on it or not, would it be possible for you to get some reasonably apx. dimensions off of it for me, I'll trade you for a shirt or more. Thanks a ton, Bob
Rob,
No problem on getting the dimensions as soon as I finish displaying the bike. There seems to be more interest in this bike because of people having no knowledge of its existence. I haven't even done any resto to it and it looks nice.
There was some talk of my friend having several pipes made from the original(he has a 400 KRP). Would this be something you would be interested in? Just let me know.
Ron Carbaugh
Raymond,
Just got home and THANKS for the copy of Motorcyclclists Post. Is this mine to keep? Thank you for taking the time to send it.
Respectfully,
Ron Carbaugh
I'm excited to report that two more KRP Short trackers will be resurrected over the coming months, with every intention to return them to competition in '05.
Thank you Alan Buehner!
Frame numbers #29 and #37.
Bob
Rob W,
That is great. They went to the right home. I may have news on finding another KRP Flat Tracker. Stay tuned.
Ron Carbaugh
Wow, all this talk about these hidden jewels got my mojo up. I would be interested in reproducing original seat pans and side panels.
Would like to know if there were several models or do they all appear basically the same, this will help with the mould selection etc....Can someone please send me a few pics as I have only seen one many moons ago.....
Tom..........
Tom,
I am traveling right now, but would be happy to send you pictures along with what Rob can provide. I also owe you a picture of the completed front number plate for the '77 Penton. You ask for a picture last year(no kidding) and it just came back from the paint shop. I guess DuPont only fills paint orders once a year in Texas[:o)].
Ron Carbaugh
Hey Guys ,With me being a old flat tracker and just finishing a resto job, give me a shout if ya'll happen to come across another that needs a good home !! I didn't even know they existed till meet BAJA RON. :D
Thomas Carmichael
I have one that I am still putting together and have not started it yet. I'll get the frame number and engine number for your post. It's nice to know that there are several experts out there on the Penton/KR, I know very little about the flattracker models and may have questions on whether I am assembling it together correctly or not...Kirk Sessions (Ohio)
Quotequote:Originally posted by firstturn
From time to time I have requested information from members on certain models of Pentons with hopes of using this information for future projects. In tracking these different bikes I hope to present suggestions to the Officers and Trustees of the Penton Owners Group for our shows and/or requests for models at shows by groups or promotors.
I am looking for all the Kenny Roberts Penton Short Trackers out there, any promotional material, magazine articles or any other related information. I would like copies or I will buy information on related items. Here is the information I would like initially.
1. The owner(s) and frame number of any KRP short trackers.***I own one and it is original with the correct seat, tank and engine. The serial number is #09.***
2. Any history on your bike or any others that are accounted for on this site.***My bike came from Ron Munson who purchased it in 2000 from Al Buehner.***
3. Any articles or supporting material.***I have some information on when Penton was closing out the bikes with a bulletin to the dealers.***
4. Please any questions or stories are invited.
Thanks to everyone for their time.
Ron Carbaugh
I was wondering did Jack,Jeff,or Tom ever take one of these baby's out to a flat track race to race ? I wouldn't be able to stand it seeing a Kenny Roberts/KTM Flat Tracker just sitting there,I would at least take it out back for some fun!! Is there anybody out there that can tell us what it felt like to race it? PLEASEEEEE I am going into DT'S[:p]
Thomas Carmichael
I've begun to follow some of my leads, to collect more information on these bikes.
The frames were made by Jerry Griffth, in Oakdale, CA. The shop where he fabricated them was in a wooden barn on his property.
Side note: I knew Jerry Griffth around this era because early in '75 I raced rough scrambles and short track at the track Jerry had behind his house, it was called "Pioneer Arena". It was a popular track that drew local professionals and future champions. On any given race day, which typically was a amateur sportsman event, you would see Doug Chandler and Chris Carr battling it out on their mini-bikes. Another regular that would frequent the track was Alex Jorgensen.
A few years later I remember going over to Jerry's house with a friend to get something welded on his race bike. Jerry showed us the new bikes he was building for Honda. They were the first Honda RS750's (Proto-type V-twin race bike to challenge the dominance of the Harley XR750's) later to be ridden by the likes of Bubba Shobert and Hank Scott, Mike Kidd, and Ricky Graham.
I also remember the goats he had tied up around the outside of his shop to act as guard dogs. I would'nt mess with them, they would charge if you got near them. I never knew until then I was affraid of goats. Anyway.......
It was'nt a big operation, KR Racing frames were made by hand by Jerry Griffth, with not alot of help by others. It was'nt like he had four guys sitting around welding frames up all day. Buster Roberts (Kenny's father) would come in and help out from time to time with things like ordering steel and such. What Kenny Roberts roll was at that time, I'm not exactly sure. My next goal is to reach Jerry by phone myself to ask him more questions. He's since moved up into the mountains, but I have another friend (I used to work at his father's motorcycle shop) up there close to where he is now, so I'm sure I can make that happen.
:)
Bob
Oh what fun it is to ride on a 37 horse open sleigh.
Rob W,
Great follow-up. I hope that we can find out more. I still keep in touch with some of the old Race Team Guys (Honda) and may be able to feel in some of the blank spots. This just incredible information. I will have to say Jerry Griffth was handed inpossible tasks to help start the Honda Flat Track Race Team and had to work with nothing until Honda developed the RS 750 engines. Just a little trivia: What engine did Jerry initially use to just get thing going on the Flat Track Team? Believe it or not a CX500 Honda street bike engine turned sidways and coverted from a shaft drive to a chain drive. Talk about crude, but Jerry did it. What a great and driven guy.
Ron Carbaugh
Thank You Guy's for this info!! I am eating this up and I want to hear all that ya'll can dig up on this ! I wish that back in the 70's that I had known that Penton had a ready to race flat tracker ! then I wouldn't have been drooling all over the Bultaco Astros.
Thomas Carmichael
Guys am I missing the boat here by wondering if any of the Penton Guys rode the flat tracker? Is this a "Penton" flat tracker or a flat tracker with a KTM engine in it? Did John have anything to do with this bike?
Thomas Carmichael
Thomas,
The bikes we are talking about here were built in cooperation with Kenny Roberts and John Penton. They were offered through the Penton Dealers in 1977. Dealers could buy them the paint the bike the color combination they desired since they came in white fiberglass. This is not to be confused with other flat trackers with KTM engines such as Champion Frames.
As far as any Penton guys riding these bikes I do not know. They were a weapon of choice by future National Champion Mike Kid and others like him. I hope this clears it up.:)
Ron Carbaugh
Wow this is cool stuff. I never did race a flat track bike but I was surrounded by them. It seems that everyone I knew raced flat track. MY brother Paul was quite the local hot shoe. He had turned expert but could not make the grade because his converted pursang was just not fast enough. It was during that time that we found this go kart tuner that did some porting to his bike and that helped. By the by his name was Erv Kanamoto, Ron you probably know him or of him I think he ended up going to work for Honda in the late 70's Anyway Paul bought one of those new Astro's and all of a sudden he was showing up the guys with national numbers.... and then he got married and she put an end to all of that. Ossa was the bike to ride for short track but I had never had seen a Penton short tracker or even a chanpion framed KTM. I saw a few other bikes with champion frames... Triumphs and such but never anything like that. I am sure it must have been faster that greased lightining. By the way there was a Cheny/triumph at the races last week. very cool.
Thom Green,Still crazy after all these years!
76' 250 MC5 (orginal owner)
78' 400 MC5
Thank You Ron for bringing me along on this !! I am just eating this up and I am sure you can understand why.Several of the guys I used to race with have brought out there old flat trackers and are racing again..........who knows!!If I drop some weight and find a spool wheel I could be with them again.
Thomas Carmichael
Thomas,
I hope that answered some of your questions. I have appreciated you pictures when you were racing flat track on the 125 Pentons.
Thom,
What great memories you bring up about Erv Kanomoto. He helped so many people win world championships including Freddie Spencer...what a guy. Thom you should name some of the great TT & short track Champions that your brother had to race against. Tough Guys.
Ron Carbaugh
Ron, I am terrible with names. I remember places really well but for some reason I have a hard time with anything that is not physical. I will ask him and will let you know as soon as I find something out. This subject does bring back memories of people and places I have not thought about in a very long time. Cool stuff.
Thom Green,Still crazy after all these years!
76' 250 MC5 (orginal owner)
78' 400 MC5
Searching around I found a post by PJM on Jan. 9, 02. Titled "1977 250 Penton KR Flat Tracker For Sale", it refer's to a sale on Ebay for good ole #31. Does anyone remember where that went, I don't have any records showing #31.
Kirk, What number do you have? thanks.
Very interesting, I have not seen proof of this until now. I found this in the May '77 issue of MXA in "Tricks from The Trade". Red Line Engineering did offer a complete Champion framed bike with a KTM engine. So pretty, Champions' were always the classiest.
Ron, I'll try to shoot a picture of this over to you in a few days.
Bob
Rob,
Wasn't that the one in Maine and was sold to Kick?
Ron Carbaugh
Thom Green-
Who was your brother? I covered Sidewinders, Castle Rock and pretty much all of the Northwest TT races for Cycle News from the late '70s to the present. I even got a nice photo of you on the KTM at the second Woodland Vintage event this year.
Clay Light
Senior National contributor, Cycle News