Check out the latest Vintage Views cover shot of Lew Mayer and his Jackpiner in action at the Gatorback CC.
Great job Lew.
I still can not see good but I did notice the ribbed "Illegal According to AHRMA" forks on the Jackpiner. Good Tech Inspection, eh?
Larry,
The forks must have been modified to pass, right?
Glenn
Larry,
It's good to hear from you again. I hope you are recovering fast.
Randy,
Did you have a good time in Texas? I didn't see much of you after the initial hellos.
Teddy
Teddy,
I had a super time in TX. I had to leave after the great barbeque put on by Diamond Don. Weather was awesome, and was perfect for CC. That was my first race in 25 years. I still have sore muscles from doing all those tank slappers.
Randy did you ride your poster bike?
Dennis Jones
Larry,
I knew as soon as I saw the cover shot that some of our sharp-eyed members would catch the forks on Lew's bike.
Yea, we missed them!
AHRMA does tech for two primary reasons.
First, Safety. the newest vintage bike out there is 30 years old. Most would be very surprised to hear some of our horror stories of what we've found in tech (missing swingarm, axle, steering stem, etc bolts, fo an example).
Second is compliance with the rules, intended to help keep the spirit of the racing era of each particular class. Do we catch everything? - heck no. There are over 40 different brands of vintage bikes that we see in tech (routinely around 25-30) and each had changes from year to year. James Smith and I are continually seeking info and learning about all these bikes and year changes, and we try to train our helpers on these, as well.
As in almost all racing, there is always the option for competitor to protest a bike in his/her class that may have made it thru tech.
The bottom line for us is safe and fun racing, and trying to keep the bar level for as many bikes as we can in each era represented in the class structure. For those that have in-depth knowledge of a particular brand, we are always seeking info to better do our job.
Hope to see you at the track (Diamond's was a blast),
Dave Janiec
AHRMA West MX Tech Chief/Trustee
Hi Dennis,
Yeah, I broke down and deceided to go ahead & ride it not hide it. I did replace a lot of the NOS parts with older replacements, though.
Dr. Doug's magic made it perform outstanding. Just needed a rider, I guess. I just don't care for the internal flywheel motoplat for woods riding. Maybe I'll have to work out a trade with somebody out there. I may take the one off my Berkshire & try it in Marion.
Randy thats great. I hope to ride mine next season, I've been gathering parts. I got a watermelon tank off ebay like the one in the poster. Did you run the shocks upright or laydown? See you at Marion, it's right in my back yard, an hour away.
Dennis Jones
Larry,
It is great to have your contribution and to point out the fun things that a lot of people don't see. You are in our prayers and keep us up to date on your eye sight and when the doctors allows you to start driving again.
Dave Janiec,
You guys in Tech do a great job. Just look at your good record for safety and trying to keep up with 40+ brands which exponentially multiplies by so many years involved. I know being a tech for both motorcycles and for boat racing I sometimes couldn't see the forest for the trees especially, when I knew someone was enhancing their opportunity to win;).
Lew,
Congratulations on the cover shot.
Ron Carbaugh
May I ask what part of having a ribbed fork is illegal? Having spent much time converting my 75 250 to the 7&4 inch rule of AHRMA, can I use this bike in the Vintage , not post Vintage class? BTW, I saw Lew at Gatorback and he was flying! Nice picture and on the cover as well! Thank you.
1975 250GS in Mich.
I agree with Ron, Dave Janiec and James Smith and Corky Root and the other tech guys do a fantastic job helping us make our bikes safe. Dave has found things wrong with my bikes during tech inspection that I had overlooked and I have really appreciated his help. Thanks Dave and the other tech guys.
Teddy
Teddy,
Where is that frame number[:o)].
Ron Carbaugh
Randy,Put the ignition on with the heavier flywheel,you'll enjoy the motor much,much more.If not,be careful with the internal rotor Motoplat,you could overrev and blow it up,just like I did.
Since I seem to be a topic of discussion, I thought I should jump in. First, thanks for the congrats, guys. They must have been hard up for photo-ops that day. Second, like Wildman, I need to know why those forks are illegal. I put them on 25 years? ago after I centerpunched a 4 inch tree in an enduro and bent the 32's. They were a set someone took off their bike so they could run Marzocchis. I'm not even sure what they came off. I just thought they were a set of 35 mm's. What's the problem with them.
Lew Mayer
Lew,
The 35mm ribbed forks come stock with 200mm of travel.
I was racing in your same class that day and even though I was riding incognito on a Can-Am I was not going to tell. Then I paid dearly for my choice of ride when the results were posted. I was left off. When I asked why, they said my bike was post vintage. Then I had to explain that the rule book specificaly allows a '76 TNT/OR and go through a discussion on swingarm length before they corrected it.
John J Slivka
JJ,
What's the max travel allowed by the class? And what's the travel on the non-ribbed 35's?
Lew Mayer
Check the rule book at //www.ahrma.org .Vintage is 7"/4",not sure if there is a limit on post-vintage.Some Ceriani's w/o ribs can be 200mm,check for "200" stamped at the bottom of the fork leg.
Lew,
John is correct on the travel on the forks, they are from a post 74 model, and the forks are considered a "major component". Congrats on your "Cover Boy" status!
For John,
I couldn't get to Gatorback unitl Friday afternoon, and thus missed CC tech. If you were not noted in tech, then someone spotted you or protested later in the day. James Smith is obviously VERY familiar with tthe CanAms and probably helped in this case.
In that case, in the best scenario you should have been searched out in the pits (maybe they couldn't find you) and the bike or protest discussed, rather than have it posted with no score (that is our last resort to get the rider/bike involved).
I'm glad to hear it all worked out when you brought it up, and we try to ensure that fairness prevails. We want our members to feel at ease bringing a situation like this to the officials, in a calm fashion.
See you all at Cahuilla Creek and/or Sandia (or for you eastern tyoes, I'm trying to work my schedule to be at Mid Ohio again this year), Dave
PS, My Pentons are coming together and I WILL race a D model this year (new year's resolution!).
I may be wrong, I often am, but my understanding is that some 1974s came with the ribbed fork, so the issue should be the length of travel, which when restricted to 7", would be legal. Is it because a 175 came with 32mm in earlier years? I guess I should contact AHRMA directly. Thanks for everyones input. Wildman
1975 250GS in Mich.
Quotequote:Originally posted by wildman
I may be wrong, I often am, but my understanding is that some 1974s came with the ribbed fork, so the issue should be the length of travel, which when restricted to 7", would be legal. Is it because a 175 came with 32mm in earlier years? I guess I should contact AHRMA directly. After looking at the production year info, it looks like my banana shaped swingarm puts me in post vintage anyway even with travel at 4". Thanks for everyones input. Wildman
1975 250GS in Mich.
1975 250GS in Mich.
AHRMA's rule is simple: 7"/4". Because Pentons in '74 took a huge leap forward in suspension, the burden is on us to comply with the rules, no matter what our bikes came with or were fitted with over the years.
The '74 1/2 250 I bought on EvilBay last year had ribbed forks on it, and the Pogger I bought it from had competed in AHRMA events with it, so it must have passed tech inspection at some level at some time. I have "retrofitted" this bike with the 7" travel 35mm Cerianis that do not have ribs and are not stamped "200." I took the time and spent the money to find the older forks because I don't want to get to a National, for example, and be kicked into PV because of the forks.
The tech inspectors at AHRMA races have a huge task in keeping track of our Pentons' details, as well as all of the other marques that compete. Let's do our part technically and in the spirit of vintage racing.
Glenn
PS. If there is a modification that will bring the ribbed forks back to 7", it should be posted here so we can all get "legal" if we need to.
Dave you guys do a great job and have a tough task. I am just a devil's advocate kind of guy and love to get discussion going. In 1974 Pentons had a suspension advantage that is evened out by AHRMA rules today. The fork thing is a hard one and it is just a very minor advantage that is employed purposely by some and unknowingly by others. A solid spacer can be used to limit the travel of these forks and make them Vintage legal.
Lew-Great cover shot none the less and Congrats on a super ride.
Thanks Ron and to all that continue to wish me well in words and prayer. I get a little better each day and hopefully soon will see good enough in the sunlight to drive and look at the computer screen for longer than 15 minutes.
OK, how can I address this to Ahrma's satisfaction? I could modify the forks to limit travel but how would the tech inspectors know if it's true? Any ideas? I know you guys have ideas.
Lew Mayer
Larry,
You can rest easy now. When you see those ribbed forks on my bike,you can be satisfied that they are AHRMA-legal with 7" travel. Modifications are complete and they should work like the original ribbed forks only with less travel.
Lew Mayer
Can ribbed forks that were manufactured as 200mm travel be limited to the rules 7" rule ? I didn't think that would be allowed as they still appear to be 8" travel and have the ribbed fork which wasn't around till 1975 or 1976.
Just an observation, as I changed a set that were on my Six Day 125 because by the rules Ribbed forks are not allowed. The guy in Texas that I bought it from had changed them. I made him give me the originals too.
Cher'o,
Dwight
Dwight Rudder
7 time ISDT / E medalist
8 time National Enduro Class Champion.
Lew ,
could you go over how you did the limiting on the 200 mm forks,
that would be something I would like to post in the library.
John D.
John,
It wasn't that hard. I bought a set of damper rods out of the older 35 mm forks. The holes in them are the same, they're just shorter rods. Then, you just use the newer damping and stop valves out of the ribbed forks. And just to meet the letter of the law, I put maybe a 3/16" spacer in the bottom of the forks out of plastic conduit. It would take a heck of a hit for me to bottom those forks hard enough to damage that small spacer. Just to insure that spacer didn't float up, I used a longer drain screw to fix the spacer to the bottom of the slider. We'll see how it works at Camelback. After working on those forks, I think whoever classified them as 8" travel was being very optimistic.
How's 10wt oil sound for for them?
Lew Mayer
Lew
You are right about the ribbed forks travel. The most I could ever make them do on the bench was 7 5/8". For motocross I like 15W fork oil but I have been known to look for the jump and not avoid it.
Dwight
There were 1974 models with the ribbed forks later in production.
Dwight & Larry,
The 1974 Six Day I have with the rib forks has a frame that dates the manufacturing as Septmber 1974. I agree with Larry on the travel because this was one of my debates back in the 70's. Everybody make it a good day.
Ron Carbaugh
Quotequote:Originally posted by firstturn
Dwight & Larry,
The 1974 Six Day I have with the rib forks has a frame that dates the manufacturing as Septmber 1974. I agree with Larry on the travel because this was one of my debates back in the 70's. Everybody make it a good day.
Ron Carbaugh
But wouldn't a manufacturing date of Sept. 74 been actually a 1975 model ? Most companies stop manufacturing the current year model at end of month 6 or June. I also had 1974 model , with the GS tuned engine , and round tank with cable straps. Short travel rear. But it had the standard 35mm forks no rib. I don't know of any 74 models that had ribbed forks originally. But I could be wrong. Ask Doug or Dane.
Cher'o,
Dwight
Dwight Rudder
7 time ISDT / E medalist
8 time National Enduro Class Champion.
This year model thing has come up before and this is what I was told back in "The Day" and supposedly it still holds true. KTM goes on vacation in August so that all the production before August is that year and all the production from September on is the next year. I agree with Dwight that Ron's bike is a '75 but there were 74 1/2 Hare Scramblers that were produced before August that I saw with the ribbed forks. As far as that goes the 74 1/2 250's had the multi-suspension in the back and you could get 7" in the laydown position but of course unless set-up properly they are Post-Vintage. I think because of the Like Model rule it all depends on travel and technology advances and not really year. Good debate and I am sure AHRMA has hashed this several times which is probably part of the reason they considered ending the Like Model rule for a short time.
Dwight & Larry,
I went over this deal before and I am not indicating anyone is right or wrong, but read on.
This whole thing of year popped up with Honda and the Federal and State governments on titles and Certificate of Origins. I don't want to go too far on this, but dealers that sold bikes of a previous year could and did receive new certificates of origin so they could sell bikes as current year models to make the customer feel like he was getting a current year and the banks were financing a new/current year bike. I know because I have had access to blank certificates of origins.
Now with all this said I think the new front ends floated out before the quote '75 bikes came out so we are all right. And NO I'm not into politics or running for any office[:o)].
Ron Carbaugh
Ron,
I'm voting for you during the election!
Donny Smith
Donny,
You obviously are talking about the successful candidate that they are looking for to put in the cage and throw baseballs at...Mid Ohio. I think it is called a dunking booth[8].
Ron Carbaugh
Very Good Obie Wan! At least it isn't the drunking booth. That's where they throw half empty Jack Daniels bottles at you and if the hit you have to kill it.