OK, I admit it, I'm no petroleum engineer. Can someone explain to me the difference between oils, for mixing with gas, and why the large difference in ratios? I thought the oil was to lubricate the bearings and to keep the piston from seizing. If that is the case, the more the better, no? Isn't that why the old bikes used 20:1 or 24:1, and then with the water cooled bikes and better cooling and tolerences, less oil was needed. I'm really confused because I understand you may also get more horsepower if you use a higher ratio but no-one wants to fry a motor. Any input from the engine building experts out there?
My take on oils and ratios, more oil is not always better. The reason I think this way is because oil burns hotter that gas, gas actually acts as a coolant. I would say, run any good oil at 40 or 50 to 1, and jet bike accordingly and you will have no problems. I also believe that you should jet your bike a little richer breaking in a new motor, not more oil mixture.
Now this will probably bring about some controversy, but I have used Pennzoil outboard motor oil in my bikes for over 20 years, never had a seizure, very clean burning, power valves stay clean and piston, ringlife and bearing life has been great.
Rocket
I'm breaking in a band new motor tomorrow and it was previously jetted with 24:1 and ran well. If my thinking is right, if I go to 40:1 it will actually be richer because more fuel to oxygen molecule. Is this right? Should I just break it in tomorrow with what I know works (24:1) and worry about changing to 40:1 later? I would like everyone's input as I think a lot of people may benefit from this discussion. It has always been a little confusing to me.
Rocket, thanks. That information does help.
Someone here will know more about this than I do, but, I thought the reason there is a difference between the ratios now and then had to do with the difference in oils. Today, the oil is more concentrated than in the old days. Or at least that is what I was told when I got back into the dirt bike scene.
Donny Smith
Today's oils are so much better than what was available back in the 60-70's. I personally run a 40:1 mixture in all my bikes that take premix from my Pentons to my 2002 KDX200. My personal preference on oils is Polaris Premium Gold synthetic because it runs very clean and hardly any smoke. I even run this in my 86 Suzuki RG500 Gamma which has oil injection. I leaned out the oil injection on the Gamma a bit from stock setting and bike runs fine. Hope this helps.
Dave McC
No Rocket, there is no controversy at all!
Most 2-stroke oils today is very good but earlier in time. The one way to be sure was to run outboard oil. It usually complies to somewhat stricter regulations and has always worked excellent in dirt bikes. I have used outboard oil since the late seventies and never ever had a problem related to that. Infact I used to have a Maico 250 -83 that I never changed the spark plug in during the time I had it, some 3-4 years, and I rode a lot!
However, the standars to go for today is JASO-FC and TC-W3! JASO is the japanese manufacturers quality measurements which is based on actual testing regarding lubrication, friction and so on. A JASO-FC oil will be just fine. If you want to be even more certain, look for a TC-W3 compliant oil. It's guaranteed to keep the engine cleaner yet very protective against seizure.
I'd say that any oil meeting both standards will be more than enough and the oil will never be the problem. However. I'm not a friend of too little oil in the mix. Especially not on the open class sized bikes. The piston would probably get away just fine with 1-2% but not the crankpin bearing. And to make things a little more complicated. The open class bikes doesn't burn oil too good. So we need the oil but the pipe will be clogged on the inside. That's why I preffer a TC-W3 compliant "MINERAL" oil at around 3-3.5%. The mineral oil will generally burn better than the syntetic oil. 250's and smaller bikes would probably do better with syntetic oil.
I would guess that riding style means quite a bit too. The enemy is the RPM. That is what requires better oils with more strength and higher temp resistance.
this in my thoughts, no guarantees...
Keep it simple. Lots of good oils, users choice. Mixes equal- tighter clearance heavy mixture/20:1 Looser clearances less mixture- 30, 40 50:1
Golden Spectro is same as old HiPoint oil but they tell you to mix at 50:1. I found that the old mixture of 40:1 leads to longer engine life.
But the reason for the 50:1 is that Golden Spectro burns extremely dirty and will clog a modern spark arrestor in short order.
I found that Bel-Ray mixed at 50:1 is asking for a failed crank bearing.
I use Maxima Super M at 40:1 and it burns very clean. Maxima Castor 927 is very good but a dirtier oil. BUT it smells like Castor. But it is much cleaner than straight Castor oil.
Helmut Clasen uses and recommends Optimol brand oil, mixed at 80-100:1 I too have used it with decent results. I use it in my Aeroplane engine ( Hirth 2 stroke, 625cc ) but is is a faily low rpm engine.
Remember the higher the RPM the more oil it needs due to oil migration through the engine. 500cc 2 strokes turn low rpm and need less oil as the oil moves slower through the engine. 100cc engine turns much higher RPM and needs more oil. 40:1 seems to be a good comprimise on most good oils.
I would say that optimal ratio's with a oil like Maxima Super M would be:
50-100cc = 32:1
125cc = 36:1
175cc-250cc = 40:1
350cc-500cc = 50:1
I don't recommend Outboard motor oil unless you have too. They are designed for Water Cooled Engines not Air Cooled, and at lower RPMs. Cheaper brands also are very smokey. You should have seen my Suzuki T250 Hustler when I ran Union 76 Outboard oil. It looked like I was spraying for Mosquitos. Similar results with Chevron oils in my friends Kawasaki Triple 500cc H1. I have run Penzoil Semi-Synthetic in my KE100 Kawasaki oil injection system. Looks a lot like Suzuki CCI oil.
By the way if you are premixing Suzuki CCI , which is a very good oil it is designed to be run at 20:1 and burns very clean at this ratio.
We ran this oil exclusively with the Suzuki Team Enduro in the late 70's and early 80's. I had started with the team using HiPoint oil but they made me change. But I found it extremely clean burning with no problems.
Cher'o,
Dwight
Dwight Rudder
7 time ISDT / E medalist
8 time National Enduro Class Champion.
I don't know if anyone in the OK, KS, AR or TX area would remember this, but there was an oil that was 100% synthetic and came in a clear plastic qt bottle and the oil was pinkish red. I think the name was polyozide or someting like that. Anyway, we ran that out of the two shops I worked at in the late 60's and early 70's and this stuff was the cats meow. I mean we never had a problem with the lubercation or any smoke problems and we ran it 20:1. You could tear down an engine and just take a rag and wipe the head and top of the piston clean with one wipe and the parts still looked NEW. Mike Lewis sold it and Stan's Honda in Duncan OK did too.
Donny Smith
Oil/gas ratio?
I get myself in trouble everytime gas, oil and mixture comes up on the Forum. #1 - Dwight has been racing a long time and I mean a long time [:o)] and he has seen a lot and he needs no help on his thoughts so Dwight put the calk down and go back to your desk:D.
Next I have seen some things mentioned that I don't agree with on this Forum so to keep everyone from bailing off with what works or doesn't if it works for you and your happy fine, but I used to be the one (or one of them) that had to recreate the failure of engines for a previous job. The science is called Failure Analysis.
Please read the following and it is just a statement and please I am just putting it out for everyones approval or disapproval. I really don't want any dead horses being beat up.
Oil hopefully lubricates and reduces friction(you NEVER reduce it all). Bad or lack of lubrication creates Heat. Heat=More Friction. The more friction the more heat so on and so on. The oil that I have tried to use #1 lubricates well at the RPM my engine is operating and #2 if there is a hot spot(or area) developing the characteristic of the oil I use goes to that Hot area.
That's it, I am not going to discuss clearances because I set up water cooled engines (not just motorcyes only) and air cooled engines differently and the only failures I have ever recorded are people not properly having clean air going in the engine, unless there was a faulty bearing etc.
Rocket has too many engines under his care to say that his combintion doesn't work.
See what happens when I take a weekend off[:p].
Respectfully submitted with all others opinions in mind.
Ron Carbaugh
Thanks Ron, but I still don't know, what oil do you use and in your expert opinion, what ratio has worked best for you?
Lloyd,
I was hoping you wouldn't ask[8)]. I use three different mixes. In my high reving 100/125+cc engines (remember Dwight's comments) I use Stihl chain saw oil with the little bottles of one bottle for one gallon of gas. I really like it for air cooled engines, but I don't necessarly recommend it, but I use it. I really have had great years of experience with Yamalube(32:1 or their 50:1). I actually started using this oil when I was working in Hondaline (accessory part of Honda) and visited with the different people that actually make most of these oils. The last is I used Honda oil when testing for Honda with no failures, but I don't use it anymore and use the first two choices.
OK, Rocket(Rod) and I have gone on record with our choices. Hope this helps. Lloyd anything else e-mail me directly or ask on the Forum.
Ron Carbaugh
Hmmm, This is very interesting. I may need to make a oil change. I had been using golden spectro for a long time but I changed because of as Dwight said it did burn dirty. maybe I will try the Maxima or what ever that stuff was. I am interested in a clean burn oil but the thought of having a bearing go because of it... is not a something I am prepared to deal with.
thanks for the info
Thom Green,I own and ride a 76 250 MC5 MX which I bought new.
Thom,
If your not having problems I wouldn't change. I have had sooo many opportunities to test with and for people who wanted to try different oils that's why I am probably out in left field. Blendzall(green and gold cans) was the best mixture I used for going fast besides going to fuel(which I did before rule changes).
Ron Carbaugh
Ron,
normally I would not make changes like some people change of hats. But when Dwight said that he found problems with using bel_ray at 50-1 had bearing problems, that scared me. The cost of 2 stroke oils is expensive but not as expensive as rebuilding a bottom end. the question I have now is do I run one ratio for the 250 and another for the 400 ?
Also Dwight you could answer this, what size of bike was the bike that had bearing problems with Bel-ray at 50-1 If it was a 100 or 125 then maybe it would not net the same results on a 250 or a 400. I have been using bel-ray at 50-1 but It has only been less than 10 gallons so I do not know if there would have been any problems. I would not think that I have caused any serious problems yet but my concern is that I might by extensive use. I trust you and dwight you have been doing this alot longer than I and have had opportunies to see things I never have. I know you tell it straight. Thanks!! :D
I thinks I am going to bed... it is really late and I have to get up in 7 hours.
Thom Green,I own and ride a 76 250 MC5 MX which I bought new.
Thom,
I will yield to Dwight on this one. I don't think you mentioned you were using Bel Ray in your post. I can't really speak bad about Bel Ray since years ago I along with friends used it for a while with no problems. I also remember it being used by Team Honda, we had a contract with Bel Ray before we had riders that were allowed to sign their own contracts(oil sponsorships). But Dwight is out fighting the wars today and you don't win Championships with DNFs.
Ron Carbaugh
OK,I have read all your oil wisdom and here comes my oil story again.
In 1962 I rode my very first ISDT as private in the West German Team in the South German Alps.(GARMISCH PARTENKIRCHEN)
I rode my DKW 175 GS.At this time we all mixed 25-1(Castrol oil).
I was aproched by a MUNICH OIL Company called OPTIMOL OIL WERKE MUENCHEN.They offered me there oil free,gasoline free and money for finishing the ISDT and more money if I would win a GOLD.
BUT,.....I had to use(and not modify)there mixture of 50-1.
Wow,I was scared,but after a long discussion I decided(and some other riders to)to take the offer.A bit carb mod.followed and then came the start of the first day.No bike used to start easy at this days on a cold morning after beeing impoundet for 2 days.My DKW started first kick,and in seconds I was out of sight of my 4 other riders riding in my minute.This was happening every morning.The engine ran SMOKE FREE(what was very unusable at this days,)I had one of the fastest engine in the 175 class.Then came the 6.day ROAD RACING test.Would the engine take the wide open speed on the road course???I run away in the combined 175-250 class with only two riders on 250 in my shadow.In the last corner before the finish line I was drifted to the outside and hit the strawbales with my footpegs and the 2 250s slipped by me to make me 3.But I won my GOLD and the top OIL MONEY.
In the following years I used OPTIMOL OILs only and NEVER EVER had a engine(OIL related ) problems.TEN YEARS LATER,(I was now living and racing in Canada using BARDAHL oils 50-1)
a Canadian Importer aproached me,to test a special racing oil from Germany but I have to use it as the oil Co.recomended.100-1.A quick resurch told me it was OPTIMOL OIL MUNICH.Because I was guarantied to be paid for any engine damage I begun to use the (FREE) oil in my Zuendapp and Hercules GS + OSSA bikes.I have never used any other oil then OPTIMOL 100-1 in any of my bikes to the day.2 or 4 stroke it is IMO the finest oil in the world.
OPTIMOL is now distributed by INTERLUBE INTERNATIONAL INC.out of Bellingham Washington USA.
//www.opti2-4.com
For more of my pers.expirience talk to me.
Speedy------->>>>>>>
Helmut Clasen KTM
162 Hillcrest Ave
L9H 4Y3
Dundas Ontario Canada
Ph.905-627-5349
[email protected]http://speedy_c.tripod.com
Sachs GP-GS 250-7A reeds
Zuendapp 125 GS ISDT repl.73
KTM 450 EXC Auto.03
Duke spec.Edit,1996
Adventurer 02
I have been running amsoil 2000 series at a 44:1 with 110 racing fuel and i have no smoke and my plugs are a nice tan all my pentons start on the second kick idle clean and have had no problems in my snowmobles too its for air and water cooled engines ,It is expencive but have never had any engine probems.The bottom end i use spectro sx. Herm
Herm
Thom, I found problems with most bikes ( 250 and under) that used Belray MC1. Kawasaki found that any crank bearing problems always turned out to be using BelRay. I never saw a problem with Belray using 40:1 but It is a bit dirty at that mixture. If you must use 1 mixture for both size bikes go with 40:1 Maxima Super M . PJ1 GoldFire is also a very good oil at 40:1 or richer.
Cher'o,
Dwight
Dwight Rudder
7 time ISDT / E medalist
8 time National Enduro Class Champion.
Quotequote:Originally posted by firstturn
Thom,
I will yield to Dwight on this one. I don't think you mentioned you were using Bel Ray in your post. I can't really speak bad about Bel Ray since years ago I along with friends used it for a while with no problems. I also remember it being used by Team Honda, we had a contract with Bel Ray before we had riders that were allowed to sign their own contracts(oil sponsorships). But Dwight is out fighting the wars today and you don't win Championships with DNFs.
Ron Carbaugh
We used BelRay when I was with the Hercules team and if we mixed rich it gummed up the rings. Go too lean and it shortens the piston life and can lead to rod bearing failure. I went back to Spectro / HiPoint back then and had no more problems except gumming up the spark arrestor. I have used PJ1 and Maxima with no problems what so ever. I currently use Maxima Super M mixed at 40:1 for trail work. A bit richer for MX type riding.
Cher'o,
Dwight
Dwight Rudder
7 time ISDT / E medalist
8 time National Enduro Class Champion.
Quotequote:Originally posted by Speedy
OK,I have read all your oil wisdom and here comes my oil story again.
In 1962 I rode my very first ISDT as private in the West German Team in the South German Alps.(GARMISCH PARTENKIRCHEN)
I rode my DKW 175 GS.At this time we all mixed 25-1(Castrol oil).
I was aproched by a MUNICH OIL Company called OPTIMOL OIL WERKE MUENCHEN.They offered me there oil free,gasoline free and money for finishing the ISDT and more money if I would win a GOLD.
BUT,.....I had to use(and not modify)there mixture of 50-1.
Wow,I was scared,but after a long discussion I decided(and some other riders to)to take the offer.A bit carb mod.followed and then came the start of the first day.No bike used to start easy at this days on a cold morning after beeing impoundet for 2 days.My DKW started first kick,and in seconds I was out of sight of my 4 other riders riding in my minute.This was happening every morning.The engine ran SMOKE FREE(what was very unusable at this days,)I had one of the fastest engine in the 175 class.Then came the 6.day ROAD RACING test.Would the engine take the wide open speed on the road course???I run away in the combined 175-250 class with only two riders on 250 in my shadow.In the last corner before the finish line I was drifted to the outside and hit the strawbales with my footpegs and the 2 250s slipped by me to make me 3.But I won my GOLD and the top OIL MONEY.
In the following years I used OPTIMOL OILs only and NEVER EVER had a engine(OIL related ) problems.TEN YEARS LATER,(I was now living and racing in Canada using BARDAHL oils 50-1)
a Canadian Importer aproached me,to test a special racing oil from Germany but I have to use it as the oil Co.recomended.100-1.A quick resurch told me it was OPTIMOL OIL MUNICH.Because I was guarantied to be paid for any engine damage I begun to use the (FREE) oil in my Zuendapp and Hercules GS + OSSA bikes.I have never used any other oil then OPTIMOL 100-1 in any of my bikes to the day.2 or 4 stroke it is IMO the finest oil in the world.
OPTIMOL is now distributed by INTERLUBE INTERNATIONAL INC.out of Bellingham Washington USA.
//www.opti2-4.com
For more of my pers.expirience talk to me.
Speedy------->>>>>>>
Helmut Clasen KTM
162 Hillcrest Ave
L9H 4Y3
Dundas Ontario Canada
Ph.905-627-5349
[email protected]
http://speedy_c.tripod.com
Sachs GP-GS 250-7A reeds
Zuendapp 125 GS ISDT repl.73
KTM 450 EXC Auto.03
Duke spec.Edit,1996
Adventurer 02
I will say if I was to run a oil leaner than 40:1 , I would go with Optimal. I use it in my Aeroplane engine ( low rpm , 100:1 ) but I also used it in my Hodaka 100B a couple months ago when we had a VINDURO trail ride for 2 days up in the mountains of Oklahoma and N.Ark. I mixed at 80:1 , no smoke , no problems and I ran the piss out of the poor little bike for 176 miles in 2 days. Speedy likes it so it can't be all bad. Now I haven't had a long term test with this oil. I still like the richer 40:1 mixture better though. It just ain't natural to run 100:1 in a racing Motorcycle ! Why can't Optimol make a racing motorcycle oil to be sold though bike shops. It just isn't right having to buy oil from a Lawn and Garden shop.
Cher'o,
Dwight
Dwight Rudder
7 time ISDT / E medalist
8 time National Enduro Class Champion.
Interesting topic!
Only problem, it's made up for debate...
I was thinking, does anyone use Pennzoil Outboard and multi purpose 2 cycle oil?
I have found this article very interesting..
http://www.ultralightnews.com/features/oiltest.htm
As for other comments from me. I can only tell what has worked good for me and what hasn't. Since I live in sweden we have a bunch of brands that you probably don't. And we for sure don't have most of the more specialized oil you reffer to. I used castrol TTS a while and it didn't work out at all. Nice smell though!
I belive that snowmobile and outboard oils need to be equal to the finest bike oils in order to gain acceptance in those communities and in the case of outboard, there is pretty strict classifications to consider too.
I have noticed that Amsoil have a product that is made for snow, outboard and bikes that is said to be fine. Complies to TC-W3 and all. Does anyone have experience with that one?
dirtbike,
To answer you will see Rocket uses Pennziol Outboard oil.
Ron Carbaugh
Thanks Dwight,
I suppose that I tend to be simplistic. I had taken my spark arrestor off and found it to be almost plugged. I took it apart and with the help of a propane torch cleaned it up and put it back into service. I used golden spectro and always had good luck with it. But if I can get the kind of lubrication that is needed and get the bike to run cleaner...
I do not have any two stokes smaller than my 250 and have no plans to do so. It seemed to me that the oil requirments on the little bikes were much more critical than they were for the biggger bikes.
Related question... I was wondering about lub reguirements on trail bikes. We have lots of hills and mountains around here and it is not unusual to be on a down hill that could last for 5-10 minutes. Is it important to change the oil/gas ratio if you are going to be riding it in the hills.. I worry about the motor getting enought lub on those long down hills while throttle is off and the motor is running faster than idle speed. Maybe a good reason to use a good synthetic oil.
Thom Green,I own and ride a 76 250 MC5 MX which I bought new.
Ehhh... I was thinkin!! Could I turn this around a bit?
I have been studying the standards a bit an I have found that several quite expensive bottles with flashy labels doesn't really comply (or is it complie?) to the expected classifications.
I checked out the Bel-Ray homepage and brought up the MC1 oil just to see which standards it met. They didn't wrote it though. So this is what I would like. All these oils, good and bad, which standards do they meet? I would like to see how much these JASO-FC and TC-W3 classifications really is worth in real life.
I've had good results with Castor 927 @40:1 for my 1977 400 GS6......It lubes good and smells great.
Thom, as far as your downhill riding concern, if I'm on a long downhill, I shift into neutral and give the throttle a blip or two every once in a while.
Quotequote:Originally posted by dirtbike
Interesting topic!
Only problem, it's made up for debate...
I was thinking, does anyone use Pennzoil Outboard and multi purpose 2 cycle oil?
I have found this article very interesting..
http://www.ultralightnews.com/features/oiltest.htm
You must remember that Ultralight engines for the most part run a steady and realitively low rpm to what a 2 cycle dirt bike engine runs. That means you could get away with a bit inferior oil. Not that I would want to in my Aeroplane. The Pennzoil is probably one of the best of the Utility type 2 cycle engine oils. But if it was so good why doesn't Pennzoil aggresively go for the Motorcycle market. Years ago Pennzoil was sponsoring the Husqvarna race team. They were running HiPoint in Pennzoil bottles. Similar things like this happen all the time with race teams. I know a major brand of Motorcycle that lots of folks use their oil (Can you say Yamalube ?). I also know that their race teams use another major brand of oil that the team purchases and places in the Yamalube bottles. ( I am sworn to secrecy on this one )
Basically what I am saying is that not everyone is running what they tell you they are.
I run Wesson oil. Smells like fried chicken when I ride.
HEHEHE,
Dwight
Dwight Rudder
7 time ISDT / E medalist
8 time National Enduro Class Champion.
This discussion has been very informative for a novice in this field and I really appreciate all the expert advice. I understand many who contributed did so with the caveat "this is what works for me", and with a little apprehension not wanting to suggest something that may cause a problem with someone elses bike. We can only make educated decisions once we become educated. So I thank everyone who has contributed to this discussion. One final question, I noticed a couple of references to Yamalube, a local shop in town, the guys who rebuild my MC5, by the way it screams, recommended Yamalube as that is what they run in their vintage flat trackers and road racers at 32:1. Anyone have experience or knowledge of the quality of Yamalube? Thanks again.
Lloyd,
I have used it and recommend it at 32:1 and have never had a failure. To what Dwight described about Yamaha riders not using Yamalube I found this with nearly all factory or other riders not using the oil products that may be sponsering them. Especially when it comes tyo oil for their gas mix.
Last year(on the Forum) I described about how I use to get sponsorship money from Pennzoil and never used the oil in my gas. I did use it in my transmission and assembling my engine so I did forefill my obligation. To my surprise Rocket (Rod) had been and is still using it, and his bikes are raced, with no failures.
Your point and this dialog is just a great example of the input we all can contribute as to what works for us.
Ron Carbaugh
Ron,
Thank you very, very much for your candid input. I can't tell you guys how much this forum helps. I don't feel like I'm making wild guesses or doing something that is crazy. Thanks again.
Lloyd.
Quotequote:Originally posted by Dwight Rudder
Quotequote:Originally posted by Speedy
OK,I have read all your oil wisdom and here comes my oil story again.
In 1962 I rode my very first ISDT as private in the West German Team in the South German Alps.(GARMISCH PARTENKIRCHEN)
I rode my DKW 175 GS.At this time we all mixed 25-1(Castrol oil).
I was aproched by a MUNICH OIL Company called OPTIMOL OIL WERKE MUENCHEN.They offered me there oil free,gasoline free and money for finishing the ISDT and more money if I would win a GOLD.
BUT,.....I had to use(and not modify)there mixture of 50-1.
Wow,I was scared,but after a long discussion I decided(and some other riders to)to take the offer.A bit carb mod.followed and then came the start of the first day.No bike used to start easy at this days on a cold morning after beeing impoundet for 2 days.My DKW started first kick,and in seconds I was out of sight of my 4 other riders riding in my minute.This was happening every morning.The engine ran SMOKE FREE(what was very unusable at this days,)I had one of the fastest engine in the 175 class.Then came the 6.day ROAD RACING test.Would the engine take the wide open speed on the road course???I run away in the combined 175-250 class with only two riders on 250 in my shadow.In the last corner before the finish line I was drifted to the outside and hit the strawbales with my footpegs and the 2 250s slipped by me to make me 3.But I won my GOLD and the top OIL MONEY.
In the following years I used OPTIMOL OILs only and NEVER EVER had a engine(OIL related ) problems.TEN YEARS LATER,(I was now living and racing in Canada using BARDAHL oils 50-1)
a Canadian Importer aproached me,to test a special racing oil from Germany but I have to use it as the oil Co.recomended.100-1.A quick resurch told me it was OPTIMOL OIL MUNICH.Because I was guarantied to be paid for any engine damage I begun to use the (FREE) oil in my Zuendapp and Hercules GS + OSSA bikes.I have never used any other oil then OPTIMOL 100-1 in any of my bikes to the day.2 or 4 stroke it is IMO the finest oil in the world.
OPTIMOL is now distributed by INTERLUBE INTERNATIONAL INC.out of Bellingham Washington USA.
//www.opti2-4.com
For more of my pers.expirience talk to me.
Speedy------->>>>>>>
Helmut Clasen KTM
162 Hillcrest Ave
L9H 4Y3
Dundas Ontario Canada
Ph.905-627-5349
[email protected]
http://speedy_c.tripod.com
Sachs GP-GS 250-7A reeds
Zuendapp 125 GS ISDT repl.73
KTM 450 EXC Auto.03
Duke spec.Edit,1996
Adventurer 02
I will say if I was to run a oil leaner than 40:1 , I would go with Optimal. I use it in my Aeroplane engine ( low rpm , 100:1 ) but I also used it in my Hodaka 100B a couple months ago when we had a VINDURO trail ride for 2 days up in the mountains of Oklahoma and N.Ark. I mixed at 80:1 , no smoke , no problems and I ran the piss out of the poor little bike for 176 miles in 2 days. Speedy likes it so it can't be all bad. Now I haven't had a long term test with this oil. I still like the richer 40:1 mixture better though. It just ain't natural to run 100:1 in a racing Motorcycle ! Why can't Optimol make a racing motorcycle oil to be sold though bike shops. It just isn't right having to buy oil from a Lawn and Garden shop.
Cher'o,
Dwight
Dwight Rudder
7 time ISDT / E medalist
8 time National Enduro Class Champion.
A very simple answer.When I realiesed that some Canadian dealers raced OPTI but did not sell it I ask them ""HOW COME???)
The grinning answer was:
1.To good a oil.People dont have engine trouble anymore,and I need to repair engines.
2.Using less the 50 % by mixing 100-1 means I am selling a lot less oil then when I sell crap.(They would love to go back to 20-1)
But lately because of the exellent results, Optimol is available at a lot of GOOD AWNEST MC DEALERS.If there is NO AWNEST DEALER around,its not a big deal to go to the small engine shop to get it.
Cheers,Speedy--------->>>>>>>>
Helmut Clasen KTM
162 Hillcrest Ave
L9H 4Y3
Dundas Ontario Canada
Ph.905-627-5349
[email protected]http://speedy_c.tripod.com
Sachs GP-GS 250-7A reeds
Zuendapp 125 GS ISDT repl.73
KTM 450 EXC Auto.03
Duke spec.Edit,1996
Adventurer 02
OK Helmut, I just went to the Lawn Mower Supply and purchased some OPTI-2. I will give it a try and see how it works! The weed eater gets it first!;)
I really don't know where to go with any information that I may have, but I'll try.
First off, Yamalube and K2R, (Kawasaki's general purpose oil) are both made by Cities Service, and it is exactly the same product, with different dyes. The Yamalube is purple and the K2R is green.
Oils today, are almost all blended. Synthetics are generally used for high temperature applications and petroleums are generally used for high loads. The higher the RPM, the higher the temperatures, consequently, synthetics are better than petroleums in high revving engines.
Outboards and aircraft, are both fairly low and steady RPM compared to motorcycle engines, consequently, oils made for these engines, are fairly can be made to handle conditions in a fairly narrow scope of use. On the plus side, they have to be clean, because engines of this sort, have to keep running, otherwise, the operator can be in big trouble. If they were to get too dirty, and the engine's performance suffered, the user could be in harms way, and they can't afford that.
When you use different use parameters for the machine, the demands for it's lubricant's change. Motocross is generally a higher RPM use, than enduro or hare scrambles use. Consequently, the demand on the oils is quite a bit different.
In motocross, since your engine is usually at a higher RPM, the loads do not develop, because there isn't time to load a crank pin bearing. But, the temperatures do get higher, than in enduro use. The only connecting rod I know about that the Penton Teams ever lost, was on a 175 that Tom Penton was riding at a National in New Jersey. And that was probably because, he had his tank filled with straight gas at the mid race gas stop. And even then, he went all the way through a few woods sections before coming out on a sand road and was trying to catch up on time. The oil, of course, was Hi Point/Golden Spectro, mixed at 53:1 (one bottle to 5 gallons)
In my son's Kawasaki motocrossers, I've always used Golden Spectro, first mixed at 53:1 while he was a beginner, but when he got to the advanced stage and when he was pushing the engines hard, we went to 32:1. And we've never lost a rod, piston, or rings due to oil failure. And I've never really worn out a top end. When you are at the level of competition that Paul has been at, you keep things in as tip top condition, as you can. If you don't, you won't be able to stay in the hunt.
I'm a firm believer in do what works for you, tempered with reliable, believeable information. If you don't have some failures, you never learn, but at least your wallet doesn't shrink as quickly.
Dane
This is my first post just wanted to put in my 2 cents I have been using Dura-Lube [it is now called champion]for the past 18 years and have had 9 new motorcycles.I buy it buy the gallon and pour it into the old clear Dura-lube bottles.I wonder why all you guys have overlooked this oil it is great.
I have never had a fouled plug or got a rod in a bike [lots and lots of races],and I have won several class championships enduro and harescrambles and national enduro class championship.
Which leads to the point I have not really seen mentioned in all the posts,it all boils down to how you clean and properly oil your air filter.Also if you guys have seen the new filter skins to put over your filter is super they are worth a try you will be very pleased.
Just wanted to put in my word sorry if I preached all of you guys have probably forgot more about bikes than I know.
Bobby Joe Stults
1974 175 Jackpiner
!974 125 Six days
1979 Can-am 250 Qualifier
1978 Harley 250 Mx [in progress]
2002 Kx 250
Boby Joe,
Thank you for your input and welcome to the POG site. Sounds like you are the expert with all that racing and NO failures. I am glad to hear you bring up the great point on air cleaners. WELCOME
Ron Carbaugh
Yes, Thanks guys, This has been very edjukayshunol(educational)I have learned more about 2 stroke oil from this discussion than I ever knew before in all the years I ever used the stuff. I did not know that smaller engines required a different gas/oil ratio than the bigger bikes. Or for that matter why,
I use to think that the reason for the differences had to do with the quality of the oil. Ie castor based oils are better than Petroleum based oil. Synthetic oils being the best. The first I ever heard like that was a product Kloz.... I think that was the way you spelled it.
I quess that it is time to make up different gas cans for each size bike and specific to the riding activity.
Thom Green,I own and ride a 76 250 MC5 MX which I bought new.