Ok, since we just had the 35 aniv. of Woodstock, what kind of music was played in the Cycle-liner when it was on the road? Did Doug let the young guns play rock & roll?
Robert Manucy
72 Berkshire
72 Six Day
Maybe, but I don't remember any radios in any of the the cycle liners. You need the input from some of the passengers (THe Kids).
[8D]
Hi Doug,
Just a silly thought after my road trip to VMD. Ya'll would have had 8 track players back then, instead of cd's or dvd's. Man times have changed.
Robert Manucy
72 Berkshire
72 Six Day
After resto'ing my 250 now on to bigger and better things!! Bring on the CYCLE-LINER !! I was wanting a e-350 but the bus might be better!! Does anybody know where it is? Or does the Sheriff already own it ?? just joking Ron!! But I bet you know where it is don't you!![:p][:p]:D
Thomas Carmichael
Last I knew, it was headed to Sugar Ridge Auto Salvage. It's chassis had seen too much of the norther winters and the resultant salt. The engine was taken out and put in the trailer hauling bus that was chopped to make room for Hi Point Trailers on its deck. That bus still resides behing Jeff's house, next to JP's., though it isn't in very good shape either.
As for music, we listened to the music of the times in rock and roll. I think that we only had one "country boy" on the bus, and that was Danny Young, and even he listened to "our" music.
Dane
Dane,
The trailer hauling bus was the same design right?
Don't worry Thomas the Penton boys keep that bus in view 24 hours a day. I did case I mean look the site over.
Ron Carbaugh
How about some history on the bus? Who drove,what the insides looked like, funny stories, and how many bikes did it haul.
Thomas Carmichael
Thomas,
Besure to ask Dane how they changed drivers. If that bus could talk...........
Ron Carbaugh
You talk about 8 track tape players?......I remember 4 track and even better......I remember an optional 45 rpm record players on new cars.
Man, am I showing my age!
1977 400 GS6 Original Owner
1977 125 GS6 Project
1978 400 MC5 Project
Steve,
The record player you are talking about was a option that Ford played around with for a while. My Father, who is and will always be a machinest, just could not picture how the cushioning system would work where the record wouldn't skip. He use to subscribe to Popular Mechanics and was just waiting for a article to come out on how the system was designed. I really thought you were only 39 years old and/or at least you still ride fast.:)
Ron Carbaugh
Ron....39 and fast? Thanks for the compliment! Wish it were true.
....My motto is "The older I get, the faster I was"....
1977 400 GS6 Original Owner
1977 125 GS6 Project
1978 400 MC5 Project
This Cycleliner thread has vast possibilites, and I'm wondering where I should start. In all honesty, I think I should defer to Doug, because he was a driver before the rest of us were and he may have a better idea of how we came to come by them.
I do know that they (there were actually three of them: the "Husky bus", the Cycleliner, and the Hi Point bus) originally were designed and built for the United States Postal service for use in Texas. Since the State is so big, the Postal Service decided to employ these buses as mobile post offices. They were completely equipped with everything that a post office had, to pick up, sort, and deliver mail. They had a "route" so to speak, and ran the route 24/7 as I understand.
Because they were built for the Government, sort of, they were built to the hilt, and as such, did some things very right, but others, at least for our use, almost totally wrong. The engines were of course, diesel, and had a rather uncommon configuration. It was a six cylinder engine, but instead of the pistons going up and down, they went sideways. The crankshaft was on the left side of the engine and the cylinders on the right. Cummins designated the engine an NHH220, the second "H" in the model number, meaning horizontal. The engine was mounted midships in the bus, and becuse it was under the structure, working on it was always a challenge. The engine had plenty of power to move the thing over the highway at 70 mph with no trouble, as long as you were on flat ground, like much of Texas is. That was one of the good things.
On the down side, if you traveled at that speed for very long, you could almost guarantee that you would spit off tires. See, like I said, this was built for the Government, and as such, it was built very solidly. And in transportation, solid translates to heavy. And heavy, means that you weren't supposed to drive it very fast. The brakes left a lot to be desired and the tires at that time, weren't really meant to hustle down the road at those kinds of speeds, especially fully loaded. In fact, I think that with a full load of team bikes, the thing was technically overloaded. Since this wasn't technically a commercial vehicle, we almost never went over a scale, so that wasn't a problem. However, the tires were, so we pretty much drove it at about 60 to 65 mph. Keep in mind, this was still in the era of the double nickle speed limit, so we were pushing it anyway.
The tire problems sort of came to an end, when we put a new set of Michelin radials on the bus. Maybe the French haven't contributed a whole lot to technology, but those certainly were the cat's meow compared to anything we'd had before.
The next problem with trying to maintain a steady speed, was encountered whenever you would hit hills of any degree. Remember, most of Texas, is fairly flat, compared to the areas where they held the events we went to. Because it wasn't designed to handle mountains, it only had a 5 speed transmission, and one with rather goofy gear ratios at that. This led to the "go fast down one hill so you can make it up the next one" with out having to drop down to a painfully slow pace. This too, probably contributed to the tire problems.
Jack and I had some truck driving experience with the over the road tractors that Penton Imports owned, and one of them, the 1970 Ford, had an NH220 engine in it with a 10 speed transmission, and all during the life of the Cycleliner, we toyed with the idea of converting it to that kind of transmission, but for one reason or another, we never did it. The 10 speed unit, would have given us the kind of gear selection that we neede for the mountains, but then we wouldn't have had nearly as much fun racing cars down the mountains.
The buses didn't have power steering, but the steering system design didn't make for difficult steering while over the road. When moving it around the pits, it could be a handful, but since we were a bunch of young, strapping lads, we couldn't very well complain.
The Cycleliner had a fuel tank that held about 80 gallons, and at about 8 miles per gallon, that meant that you didn't have to stop for fuel very often. This of course, meant that you'd probably doing driver changes between fuel stops. Since it took so long to get the "bus" wound up or stopped, it made sense to figure out how to change drivers on the fly. Since this was in the days before there were cruise control on diesel vehicles, the manufacturers would put a throttle stop in trucks. What we'd do to change drivers, was to pull on the throttle stop so you could maintain your 60 MPH speed, and then the driver would step out of the seat and stand beside it, while holding onto the steering wheel and paying attention to the road. The next driver would then plop his butt into the seat and take over the operations. Everybody that rode on "the bus" learned this tactic, and probably executed it numerous times.
Over the years, we put a small refrigerator and a toilet in the bus, so those long streches over the road, weren't hunger frought or bladder testers. This was far from a luxury coach, but it certainly did the trick.
The sleeping arrangements were also pretty spartan, though as tired as we got going from place to place, nobody complained. (much) Over the years, the "'Liner" got outfitted two different times, and frankly, I can't remember much about the first version. The second version had sleeping arrangements for about 5 people, fairly comfortably, though I can remember trips where we had up to 8 people along.
I'll close here, with one final thought. When we started this whole thing, I can never remember thinking about how cool we'd be traveling in this thing to the races. It was all about effeciency. We'd be able to haul a whole bunch of people to one race, pretty cheaply. In hindsight, I guess it was pretty cool and certainly a trend setting move.
Dane
Dane ,How many bikes did it haul ? And what did you do with the fuel for the bike's ? Did You have to clean the bikes after a race before loading ? Any spare bikes etc...
Thomas Carmichael
Thomas,
I really can't remember how many bikes it could haul, because I can't remember ever not having enough room. We did some very creative packing from time to time, but we always managed to get everything in. I'd have to say that 8 to 10 bikes was about normal.
We used standard issue G.I. cans for our gas most of the time, and we had a rack that would hold 12 cans, I think. Our Uncle Ted was a master of creation when it came to things like that, so even though we were just learning, we had a real creator helping us.
We didn't usually wash the bike before loading them, because the floor of the bus was rubber, and a little mud or water wouldn't hurt it. I can remember pressure washing it out a couple of times, but usually, we just swept it out.
There was a partition that kept the flotsam and jetsam of the motorcycles, separate from the "living" quarters, but it had a door in it that allowed passage from the front to the back.
The ramp that we used, was a folding affair, that is similar to what you find on some of the rental truck that you see today. We had it set up, so we could access either the rear door, which was an over head affair or the side doors, which were double swing open models.
We didn't have any spare machines with us, but we did keep some spare parts, the kinds that you normally would break in the course of an event.
Dane
As Dane said we got these Post Office buses from Texas, and I am sure JR Horn and Ted Penton had something to do with that. The price was right for one and John and Ted thought about a discount for three, well we got three. Two to use and one for spare parts. The first cycle liner was gutted and an over head door was installed in the rear. A slide in ramp passage was made, exhaust pipe re-routed to come out the top left rear corner. Inside we put in two bunks front right and to be able to get Motor Home license plates we added all the needed (for the state) luxuries like a refrigerator, portapotty a sink (parts washer) even a small Coleman stove. All three buses eventually got the same makeover except with modifications. Most all of that luxury items came out to put in a small work shop bench, with parts bins, torches, vise and enough tools to rebuild an engine or motorcycle. Later a large water tank was installed with a pressure washer to wash bikes and people after muddy races, if the bikes weren't to dirty we would load them up and then wash them all Monday night after work. The fuel cans as Dane said were 5 gallon "Jerry" cans, color coded for what fuel they contained, Diesel,(green) Two Stroke,(Red)or Cleaning Solvent (Blue). The ground clearance of the bus and the engine location were not very condusive to ease of maintenance and on occasion things needed fixed. There was only one time in a few hundred thousand miles that I ever had to go over a scale and that was with the Husky Liner during the Trans Am series, in Mississippi and I was about three Bikes to heavy #600 after some discussion I was allowed to turn around and get out of MS and go around, of course we were headed to Texas so it was a giant Detour, well kind of anyhow. At that time I think there were 8 bikes and 6 people with luggage and riding gear. No potty and the Swedes learned to not throw away any Gator aid bottles. Again as Dane said the fuel tank was large enough to go 1000 miles without stopping, and I was accused of being a sadist for lack of potty stops.
Dane,
Those must have been some fun trips back then. I can relate to the speeding up and down the hills. I helped move my sister once with a Uhaul, and that's about the only way we could get through the roads in the upstate.[}:)]
Robert Manucy
72 Berkshire
72 Six Day
Doug,
You didn't pull the old "we're not stopping till we get there" trick did you.?[}:)];)
Robert Manucy
72 Berkshire
72 Six Day
What year and make were the buses? Could there be a RESTO job in there for RON? Wouldn't that be cool?? Loaded up with bikes like back in the day with the gear hanging and all of the gas cans !! Wow that would take a whole row at Mid - Ohio !! I can see it now !! Hmmm
Thomas Carmichael
Thomas,
Actually some years back I scouted one out near Lubbock. That was BM.....Before Marrage. I think at this point I would probably be building a BIG DOG HOUSE for me and my Pentons. At least if I decided to do it between Dane as the Chief Engineer and Doug as the Man in Charge we would win trophys at the Car & Truck Shows. And when they saw what was inside........MX, Flattracker, Enduro and Trials. I have a lot to think about today.[:p]
Ron Carbaugh
Dane,
70 mph, huh? I remember returning home from the Aligator one year back in about '75??. I was driving thru Tennessee in a blinding snow storm at about 60 mph, way over my head, when the Cycleliner passed me and about blew me off the road. Looked like they were going 90. It was always neat whenever we were at the races somewhere & the Cycleliner pulled in. You knew you were going to get to race against the best!!!
When Penton was the featured marque at Vintage Days, Mr. Penton, Al Born and myself hauled the POG display to Sonoma, California, site of VMD West. After the event was over we were traveling through a small town heading towards the interstate. I looked over to my left towards some large trucks that were lined up for sale, in the center of the row sat the cycleliner, or what looked to be it's twin brother, with a FOR SALE sign in the window. I pointed it out to Mr. Penton who instantly got all excited and wide eyed, "otta buy that and build another Cycleliner" was his responce. After a second or two passed the reality of the project seemed to hit home and we all just took one last look at the bus and kept moving. I have since wondered if that bus ever sold, would make a mighty nice birthday gift for Mr. Penton!!!
One quick Cycleliner story, I was at the wheel when we were going through a town on the way to a qualifier in Oregon. It was a rather hot day and the floor vent was open, the door of the vent was quite near the brake pedal. A rather hard left turn was coming up and I wanted to slow a bit before the turn. I put my foot on what I thought was the brake pedal and pushed lightly, nothing happened, I pushed a bit harder and still nothing happened, we were now at the turn and I had no option other than turn and hope for the best. The bus listed to the right pretty hard and I heard some items falling onto the floor as we rounded the turn, needless to say I was all puckered up. As we exited the turn and the bus righted itself Dane hollered out, " Pauls starting to get the hang of driving this thing", the guys laughed at Dane's comment as I tried to release my unusual grip on the seat. Of course I acted as though everything was under control!!!! Apparently I had my foot against the vent door and not on the brake pedal.
Paul
Thomas,
I get the inference from your questions and suggestions, that you may believe that the Cycleliner was the equivalent of one of today's modern motocross transports and while it is a really nice thought, I have to tell you, that this just wasn't the case. It was comfortable enough to do it's job, but it was strictly utilitarian. No frills.
The two buses that I had much connection with, the Cycleliner and the Hi Point bus, were '64 and '66, I believe. The Hi Point bus was the '66 model and the Cycleliner the '64 model. I have no idea of how one was chosen for a particular job or the other, but that is the way that I remember it.
Crown Coach Corporation of Los Angeles was the manufacturer and according to the front of the parts book that we have, they made fire engines as well. I have no idea if Crown is still in business or not.
Paul's post reminded me that there is something else about the Cycleliner that I forgot to mention. The Hi Point bus and the Cycleliner had different suspensions under them. The Cycleliner rode on air bags and the Hi Point bus had leaf springs. Because of the air bags, the Cycleliner had a pretty smooth ride compared to the Hi Point bus. Just like so many of the other features, there was a down side to the air bag undercarriage. While the ride was smooth, it was also sort of "mushy" and if you were going a little too fast around corners, the thing would heel over a tremendous amount, sort of like you were going to tip over. And that, was scary. Paul's episode wasn't the only time a rookie rounded a corner too fast, but whenever it happened, you can be sure, that things didn't always stay where they were originally put.
Doing a restoration on one to like the the Cycleliner, wouldn't be too hard, but like anything else in our world's, it would take time. And duplicating the paint job that "Beet" put on it, would be a challenge.
During Penton Imports' hayday, we employed a mechanic to take care of all the vehicles (and JP's tractors, back hoes, and bulldozer) whose name was Al Beetler. Just like most of the company's employees, Beet was a local boy (compared to the company patriarc) who had ridden motorcycles. Later on, after his body wouldn't take the motorcycles any more, Beet got into hot rods, and as such, became a pretty accomplished painter. It was Beet who put the red, white, blue, and gold patriotic paint job on the 'Liner in 1976.
The post that Doug supplied, contained some details that I'd forgotten about. Most noticably, the "sink" that was installed. Since this was in an era long before you could drop down to your local Tractor Supply and buy a home generator, we didn't have any way to supply 110V power to the parts washer. So Uncle Ted dug around, and located a 12v pump to put in the washer, so we could use it where there was no 110v power.
The parts washer was a Safety Kleen machine, and was on loan based on it being used as an educational tool. Since the bus was used all over the country and actual dealer training did take place from it, the bus could qualifiy as a mobile class room. After it just became a race bus, the parts washer stayed, and just sort of got "lost" over the years. It actually still exists today, in an (cough, cough,) undisclosed location, right next to a horizontal milling machine and a horizontal band saw. It has been converted back to 110v current thought.
Dane
Quotequote:Originally posted by Doug Wilford
......There was only one time in a few hundred thousand miles that I ever had to go over a scale and that was with the Husky Liner during the Trans Am series, in Mississippi and I was about three Bikes to heavy #600 ....... At that time I think there were 8 bikes and 6 people with luggage and riding gear. No potty and the Swedes learned to not throw away any Gator aid bottles.
Wasn't there some Swede collected pool furniture from the hotel in Florida contributing to the gross weight on this trip?
Funny the things you can learn hangin' out under a shade tree with Doug and Coco........:)
Tony
Tony
Tony you remember well, but if you remember I unloaded most of the Ramada pool furniture at my in-laws in North west Florida. We only kept a few pieces for lounging at the races. The problem was none of the contriband folded, so it took to much space, well it really took all the space in the back half, till the first stop.
If I can find them I have pictures I took of the cycle liner during a 2-day run in Missouri around 1974 or 1975. Our group from our penton shop was camped next to it. I also have pics from the moto cross on the second day. If any one wants to see them let me know and I will try to dig them out. Jeff
Jeff Chevalier
Is this the thing you guys have been talking about? [8D]
BS & KT
(http://www.pentonusa.org/forum_images/misc/cycleliner.jpg)
That is the bus in it's first trim. And frankly, it was pretty drab at that point. When Beet went to work on the outside with the patriotic paint scheme, we had to go to work on the inside, and make it look a whole lot more flashy.
Dane
Quotequote:Originally posted by Doug Wilford
Tony you remember well, but if you remember I unloaded most of the Ramada pool furniture at my in-laws in North west Florida.....
Oh yea.....but I like the "fugitve Swede Husky team and Doug on a transport loaded with stolen pool furniture trying to run a weigh station" version!
Looking forward to seeing everyone in Tulsa!
Tony
Thanks Bill
That picture says alot. There were 8 bikes on board for that venture and probably 6 of the riders. See part of the top bunk thru the window.
Those were the days for sure.
Dane what a hoot ....all good stuff.... if the cycl-liner wasnt luxury you should have seen the way we went! ..... Brian t.
Brian Taylor
Brian,
When I said it wasn't luxurious, I was referring to some of today's or even that era's motorhomes and their comforts. It was definitely the hot ticket compared to "vanning" or trailering to the races.
Dane
I just remembered another rather humorous quirk about driving the Cycleliner that I thought I'd share. Since I suppose you'd have to qualify the 'Liner as a truck, it had a truck air horn on it along with a normal type horn for small anoyances. Unlike most trucks, though, the actuator for the horn, was not a chain hung from the ceiling to the driver's left. The horn itself was mounted under the floor, under the driver's seat, so the plumbing for the horn, was also under there. Instead of the traditional chain, the actuator, was a button on the floor, much like the old style hi/lo switch for the headlights.
I can remember more than once, a rookie driver, at night, looking for the hi/lo beam switch, and seeing the horn button, stomping on it only to get a big surprise. Even if they weren't looking for the headlight switch, at times, just trying to readjust their driving position, and putting their foot on the horn button, would bring about a very quick wake up call.
Paul's story about his speed turn, made me think about this, because I remember people doing the same thing the other direction, and stepping on the button too.
Dane
More images of the Cycleliner! Images courtesy of Paul Danik.
(http://www.pentonusa.org/forum_images/misc/cycleliner3.jpg)
(http://www.pentonusa.org/forum_images/misc/cycleliner2.jpg)
(http://www.pentonusa.org/forum_images/misc/cycleliner1.jpg)
(http://www.pentonusa.org/forum_images/misc/cycleliner4.jpg)
(http://www.pentonusa.org/forum_images/misc/cycleliner5.jpg)
These pictures thanks to Paul Danik. The first one the cycleliner is parked on the wrong side of the 19th Street in Lorain R&D was the brick building where my New 73 Dodge van is parked, you can't quite see the 14' overhead door that we backed in, to park the liner. It was much easier to back in than drive in and this direction made the driverside the best way. Great shots!!
The second picture shows the foldable ramp that was used for loading the bikes, ect. The rear of the bus had a garage style door. I believe that the bus was originally a MX model with a low pipe, but the excessive black exhaust required that it be converted to an Enduro model with a hight pipe, chcek out the stack coming through the roof!! I believe that the tall guy working on the bike in picture 2 is Bob Brooks.
Pictures 3 and 5 were taken as we traveled down the road. I think the guy on the bunk is Chris Kovach, Mr. Penton's nephew. As you can see the bus was pretty full, I remember that it was tough to pack 20 cases of Coors in there on the way back, that was when Coors wasn't sold east of the Mississippi. In picture 5 Joe Barker and Tom Penton's heads are visable as well as the highway. I remember climbing through that mass of bikes, parts, toolboxes and people to take those shots.
Picture 4 shows Tom Penton working on his bike under the tarp. This was taken at the Busted Piston 2 day qualifier held near Potosi, Missouri, 1973. Tom always had "one more thing" that he wanted to do before checking his bike in.
Hey Doug, is that a fire hydrant in picture one next to your van? :D
Paul
GREAT Cycle Liner tales, Paul, Dane and Doug! Crown Coach did indeed make fire apparatus, some of the finest of their day. Los Angelos City and County used them by the dozens as Crown was located on the "left coast". Crown also made school busses, horse haulers and who knows what else. They don't make fire apparatus any more, but may still be in the bus biz...but I don't know for sure. No doubt about it, though, the Cycle Liners were certainly the kings of the hill back "in the day!"
Jeff DeBell
Now that is History at it':Ds finest!!!
Thomas Carmichael
Paul;
That was just a yellow post made to look like a firehydrant for dogs to pee on :)
Holy Moly! I was leaving churh today heading for the Olive Garden to sample some fine Italian cuisine. As I'm setting at the red light I see a Cycleliner going down the street. Well not a Cycleliner per say
but a Crown Coach bus of the same vintage and style. Some guy had turned into a motorhome. It was brown with red stripes and a Texas license plate. I was so entranced with Cycleliner thoughts I didn't even think to follow this guy and flag him down. So the search is on and Ron, he was heading your way, so head for the border and stop this guy we need a Cycleliner!
Kevin
Big K,
I think that is the same guy that told me he knew where there were two "new" Pentonws in the Carolinas. I will set up a road block in Texarkana[:p].
Ron Carbaugh
I guess you should always proof read if you add something to the forum after midnight. Sorry about the spelling and grammar.
Kevin
I meant to say I had just left church when the vision of a Cycleliner appeared.
Kevin,
are you sure that wasn't Ron Carbaugh drivin' that Cycleliner. He might be holding something back on us.
Ron, if that's you, I want to see RCR (Ron Carbaugh Racing) stencilled on the side. Randy might be able to help you out with that.
Lew Mayer
Lew,
I'm not good at correcting people[8], but it is the BRCR(Berkshire Ron Carbaugh Racing). Now you owe me one correction and it won't be hard to find plenty for you to correct. And as far (side) as Kevin correcting his detailed schedule? There is something about those pilots. Don't you guys keep a log book? The next time you see this thing it will have the Randy touch with Knobby tracks and all.;)
Ron Carbaugh
Doesn't Berkshire have a "K"?
Lew Mayer
Lew,
It has one?[:o)]now...............Thanks for taking care of the old guy. I knew that painter made a mistake.
Ron Carbaugh
And all this time I thought the BR stood fro something else.
Donny Smith
Very Alert Big D.[^]
Ron Carbaugh
Yeah, What is with this "BAJA RON" stuff I keep hearing about? Care to spill it or is that a new quiz coming up ?
Thomas Carmichael
TC,
I would tell you, but Ron might not like me too! [}:)]
Donny Smith
Doony,
You might as well tell him how you cut us plow boys down right with the others.[8D]
Ron Carbaugh
OK, I will spill the beans on this BR issue, but, I want all of you to know that there is nothing but good fun with this. Ron Carbaugh is like a brother to me and this is nothing more than just plain teasing. As many of you know, Ron is from Texas. I originally came from Oklahoma. Texas always has thing that are bigger and better and there's just no competing with Texas on any level, Except for College Football, where OU owns Texas. When I first met Ron on line and through Email, and found out that he was from Texas, and me being from Oklahoma, I informed Ron that he lived in Baja Oklahoma. Like Part of Mexico being called Baja California. Ron wrote me back right after that and called himself Baja Ron (BR). This is how we both refer to him in all our written correspondence. Little did I know that Ron was calling himself Berkshire Ron, although if you know Ron, it truly fits.
Donny Smith
So ..... Lets see...that is what I see in the Cycle News and Racer X in the ads: BBR racing "Berkshire Baja Ron" Racing???:D[8]
Thomas Carmichael
Toni found this very cool old photo of the Hi-Point Cycleliner which she took as it was sitting in a parking lot in Michigan.
I have read several times about the Husqvarna Cycleliner, and I'm curious if anyone has a photo of what it looks like.
"Back in the Day"
(http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/1282/copy4ofcopy2ofhipointcynv5.jpg)
As it sits today, after being modified to haul the Hi-Point trailers, and many winters in Amherst.
(http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/753/1005342bc4.jpg)
The trailer hauler, was NOT the original Cycleliner. It was the Hi Point accessory bus. The original Cycleliner was scrapped in the late 80's because the chassis had rotted out so badly.
The fellow who was doing all of the semi maintenance for Penton Imports in the mid 70's, was also a hot rod guy. So in late '75 or early '76, Al was requested to do the painting on the Cycleliner. Since '76 was our Country's 200th anniversary, that is why the bus got it's flag graphics on it.
The Husky liner, as I remembered it, was all yellow with Husky graphics on it. It didn't have a lot of pretty design, but it worked for them.
Gary, thanks for posting this of the later version of the 'liner.
Dane
Seems like I remember Paul Clipper doing a story about him driving the original Cycleliner for his "Reset" column in Dirt Bike magazine. Anybody remember the article or even remember Paul Clipper driving it?
Brian
'73 Berkshire Team d-Con
//www.d-conproducts.com America's #1 Rodent Control Brand
This is very cool stuff. From time to time when I decide to go to a race far away.... We try to double up, for all the normal reasons. and it usually is more than worth the hassle. A few years ago Big Mac and I had traveled to tulsa to ride the ISDT RR and it was a great time. Not just the weekend but the trip both ways. Mac and I have talked of that trip a number of times and We keep talking about doing it again... I can only imgine what it must have been like to travel cross country to race and doing it time and agian. I am sure at the time it was hard but I am also sure that you look back on it with fond memories.
Given the times we live in finding ways to get a bunch of guys together to ride together may very well be just a return to a better way of doing things.
Thom Green,Still crazy after all these years!
76' 250 MC5 (orginal owner)74'
250 hare scrambler (project bike)
72'sixday (project bike)
I can't open the admin. pictures of the Cycleliner.What am I doing wrong? I remember the Cycleliner from the Busted Piston Enduro & 2-days in Potosi' Missouri. My brother & I got got a Red Dodge van in 72 or 73 fixed it so we could sleep in it & haul 2 -bikes.Remember when they closed gas stations on weekends? We put a 40 gal.aux tank in it & used to be pretty good at changing drivers (we had an aftermarket cruise) on the fly.We also kept empty juice bottles & when they got refilled we stuck them in the step down next to the side doors. Later we switched to hauling a 4 bike trailer opened up the back of the van & take 4 or 5 guys racing. Those were the days.Love hearing the stories about he Cycleliner. Memories are the reason to be alive.Bob
Bob Jones
Show-me state
(2)74 Harescramblers,72 Jackpiner,68/69 6-Day,73 Harescrambler.
If the memory is working in good shape, Northland Plaza is the one at the northwest corner of M-72 and US 131 in Kalkaska, Michigan. The Cycleliner was at the Jack Pine in the late 70's, which isn't far from Kalkaska.
Young Ted
Bob(Jones),
Great memories about those old vans. I didn't miss the neat comment on the empty juice bottles and the step down inthe van. I had to be at work on Monday mornings @ 4 AM so those vans really made good time home on Sunday night. Thanks for the reminder.[|)]
Ron Carbaugh
Ron, On making good time home a friend named Jerry Stokes ran his van hot on I-26 @1:00 am on the way home from Orangeburg Speedway. With no water in sight my father poured the last of our Gatoraide into his radiator to get him home.
Thomas Carmichael
1970 125 Six Day
1976 250 Hare Scrambler
I know what you mean about Monday mornings I used to teach & my 1st class was at 7:30 so a lot of times I got home in time to shower & go to school.Back then before VHS & DVD teachers had to check out 16mm films from the county library to show to classes.They used to have several produced by Suzuki when DeCoster was World Champ.I would plan to run those on Mondays after a National or a 2-Day.The kids loved it & it would keep me awake also! Remember this was back in the early 70's when teachers could still teach & dirt biking was still a novelty.
Bob Jones
Show-me state
(2)74 Harescramblers,72 Jackpiner,68/69 6-Day,73 Harescrambler.
Bob,
I remember those days. I used some of the World Championship films (16mm) to show after my Service Updates each year with my Honda Dealers. I always was fortunite to have a 100% attendance and made some great Friends by showing these films that were very hard to find back then. I do remember when teachers could teach. I live in a area of the Country that they still do....they even have the a Texas Ranger come in and teach gun safety.
Ron Carbaugh
I remember CCR being played around the bus the night prior to the Stone Mountain National Enduro in Georgia, probably 74'. Danny Young, myself, the Penton Team and the Honda Hut Team were in attendance...Those were the days!
I found those films on DVD about a year ago & they are still as good as they were back then. I love the way the English announcer pronounces Maico Mico it always cracks me up.I also found some old stuff on Yamaha that was filmed around 73-74.Good stuff
Bob Jones
Show-me state
(2)74 Harescramblers,72 Jackpiner,68/69 6-Day,73 Harescrambler.
Bob and Ron, those days still exist in Indiana! I have a mural in my classroom of Mike Lorocco (Indiana boy) and a picture one of my kids took of me. I also tell my classes about some of my more memorable crashes and show some home video of our races, too. You're right, Bob, they eat it up!
Mick
Thanks to Paul Danik for sending me these 2 Cycleliner photos.
(http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/5784/copyofpentoncyclelinerok9.jpg)
(http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/9041/huskycyclelinerps6.jpg)
Does anyone have a photo of the Hi Point accessory bus before it was modified?
Here's a photo that shows the garage door that was added to the back the Cycleliner.
(http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/580/73isdtcyclelinercz2.jpg)
This is probably what the back looked like before the garage door was added.
(http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/8200/cabin068cu8.jpg)
These van stories bring back some fun memories. I had a purple-colored '74 Chevy C20 back in the day, with a good ol' 350 V-8 in it. I installed a plywood floor, then cut a 18" x 36" rectangle out of the wood. With the back of the rectangle section hinged, and a prop rod underneath, the bikes could be rolled up against it and the van would go from cargo-hauler to bike-hauler in mere moments.
My riding buddy drove a '67 Chevy window van. We spray-painted the insides of all the side and rear windows with black paint (so they looked tinted), shot the body with bright yellow, and named it "The Screaming Yellow Zonker".
On the way to and from the races, Terry in the Zonker and me in Big Purple would conduct what we called "The Great American Van Races". We invented bump-drafting long before those circle-track guys did, and had a lot of fun tapping each other's bumpers. That is until one dark night on the way home from an event in Pennsylvania. Terry had just given The Purple a 60 mph nudge, when the engine, lights, power steering, power brakes - everything - went out!
In the sudden blackness, I tried steering my way onto the shoulder. Without power, my speed dropped dramatically, and Terry (unintentionally) REALLY slammed into me. Amazingly, I managed to come to a safe stop. Terry did too, and pulled in behind me. At first, we couldn't figure out what the heck had happened. But, with the help of a flashlight, I found that The Purple's main hot wire was routed through a metal tube, between the block and one manifold, and had rusted through, allowing the wire to melt and ground against the hot manifold.
Ah, but using Yankee/dirt bike ingenuity, a non-grounding stick was located and shoved into place to hold the melted-down wire away from grounding surfaces. The Purple then fired right up and we back to draftin'.
I have wanted to tell a story about the picture above of the Penton Cycleliner taken at Doe Run Cycle Park for awhile, tonight seems like a good time. If you bore easily just click away now :)
Any time that I was ever around the Penton gang it seemed that the ISDT was always a topic of reference or discussion. In the evenings, while attending Penton dealer school, movies would be shown in the R & D building of the Berkshire events and possibly an earlier ISDT, it didn't take long for ISDT fever to set in. When the event came to the USA in 1973 I decided to try to make the team, I sent in a letter of intent to the AMA as required, and I sent in my entry fee to the first Qualifier at Fort Hood, Texas. I had absolutely no idea how I was ever going to get to Texas, but so much for minor details. One day I decided to call out to Pentons and see if they could possibly haul my bike and I would take a Greyhound bus if needed, the person who answered the phone and heard what I was calling about asked me to hold for Doug Wilford. When Doug got on the phone and I laid out my predicament he simply said, "why don't you just come out and go to Texas and Potosi with us in the Cycleliner? " You know what my answer was......
Now for the picture, we had run the ISDT Qualifier at Fort Hood, Texas, then we went to Penton Central in Amarillo, Texas and worked on our bikes before heading to the Potosi, Missouri Two Day Qualifier. I am almost positive that the Doe Run Cycle Park was owned by Dave Mungenast and that it was located pretty close to where the Park Hills ISDTRR rides are held, maybe someone else can confirm or deny these facts.
We were invited to stop at Doe Run and use the facility to finish off any prep work that was needed and to get a little riding in. I am almost positive that Dave was there and that he asked about getting the Cycleliner parked in such a way that the sign could be displayed along with the riders in the picture. This next part is what meant an awful lot to me, Dave asked for the Team to line up their bikes for the photo, being as I was just a guest for this trip and most certainly not a member of Team Penton, I made my way off to the side as the guys assembled their machines. Dane and Jack saw me move off to the side and called out for me to get my Penton and to get into the picture, I get goose bumps even now writing this as it was such a wonderful thing for them to do, I am sure that many of you can appreciate what I am saying. Many years after the picture was taken I was visiting with Dave at his Museum in ST. Louis, I saw the picture on display and was amazed to see it, Dave asked if I had a copy of it and I told him that I didn't. He insisted that I take the original of it, along with the Huskyliner picture with me and get them copied, then just send him back the originals. What a kind gesture.
Back to the Qualifiers.
We rode the Potosi event and I was fortunate enough to pick up a Gold, to go along with the Silver from Fort Hood where I tried to win the award for most stupid crashes in one event. When we returned to Lorain we unloaded at the R&D building, my Mom had driven out to Lorain to pick up me and my bike. After loading up the van she instructed me to ask Mr. Penton what we owed him, John was right outside the R&D building at the time. I went over to John and asked him what I owed him for transportation, staying in the hotel rooms and all of the parts that I needed while working on my bike at Amerillo, (that is a story in itself). I will never forget his words, "Paul Danik, you don't owe me anything, and further more, there is a container of new motorcycles coming into Baltimore in about a week and there is a brand new motorcycle for you in that container".
About a week or so later I received a call from Penton Imports saying that a crate with a new Penton motorcycle was waiting for me :D
The folks at Penton whom I first made contact with, Jack, Dane, Doug Wilford and John Penton are all great motorcycle riders and racers, but what really sets them apart, is the fact that they are all Great People.
If you have heard this story before I am sorry to have wasted your time, but I will never tire of telling others just how wonderful the Penton folks always were and still are today. If you attended the 40/10 event this past year you saw many times over just what I am talking about.
Paul
Paul,
Cool story! How did the throw it to the wind young guy become the make sure all my ducks are in a row guy I know today?:D I guess time and age bring that on. It has not worked as well on me.[8D]
Doe Run Park was up by Potosi which is a little ways from Park Hills but in the general direction in the sense of Missouri as a whole. There is some National Forest up that way and I think it was part of that tract. I raced a State Mountain Bike Race there some years ago and they were still riding motorcycles there at the time. Not sure about now.
I rode the Ft. Hood Qualifier one year when I lived in Texas. I think it was there that Leroy Winters helped me fix my sheared flywheel key on my Six Days. It was the only time I met him. How about those tank tracks? Did you ever meet the Army Team from there? They used to come up to Austin Motocross Park on Friday Nights occasionally and race Moto. They were pretty good for off-road guys. Riders were more versatile then it seems. Today a lot of off-road riders can not moto and moto guys just bounce off trees. There are exceptions. Of course moto has gotten a bit unreal with the jumps and that may be a factor.
Anyway thanks for the story and as always the memories.
Larry P
Reading that Paul, was the most enjoyable time I've had today. Thanks very much for taking the time to tell it.
So, was the new motorcycle you received from Mr. Penton after the qualifiers, the same bike you rode in the ISDT. ? If so, you own that same bike today, correct ?
Thanks
Rob W
Larry,
I did become friends with the Army Rokon Team members, as a matter of fact I ran into one of the Team Army riders not to long ago. We have Chicken Wing joints in the area called Quaker Steak and Lube, every Thursday night in the warm months they have bike night. I decided to haul over a Steel Tanker and set it up amongst the Harleys, sportbikes, cruisers and all of the other machines that show up for these events just for the heck of it. I was unloading the Steel Tanker when a guy came over and right away offered to help me unload, he said he hasn't seen a Penton in long, long time. When I asked him about his riding experience he said that he rode on the Army motorcycle team many years ago. I asked if he rode a Rokon, he said he did, we did self introductions and he turned out to be Joe Dengler, Joe and I had become pretty good friends way back when and hadn't seen each other in over 30 years. Once again, just loading up the Penton and going somewhere, something interesting almost always seems to come of it.
The Fort Hood event was quite an experience, I have a pretty good story about that event that I will tell some other night.
Rob,
I picked up the new Penton in mid-late April of 1973, a real bonus of picking up the bike in the crate was backing into the loading dock area and getting to meet Jerry Wilhelm (sp), Jerry ran the warehouse area, anytime I had a bike to pick up he was the man I had to visit with and sign his paperwork, it was a real pleasure to get to know him. I remember Jerry pointing up to a rack in a second story area and pointing out all of the exhaust pipes that were still in their original wrapping paper, he said they were all for the OLD model Pentons and were taking up a lot of much needed space, he lamented how he wished he could just get rid of all that OLD STUFF as he needed space for the current items, If I had only known!!!!!
As for the NEW Penton,
I rode the rest of the ISDT Qualifiers and raced local events on it, plus my normal fun riding on non race weekends and evenings, so by the time the ISDT rolled around the bike had a pretty fair amount of use. We received new Pentons for the ISDT, I sold that machine off when I received my Six-Day bike, somewhere in western PA is a CMF 125 with a bunch of paintmarks on it...
Paul
Paul introduced Toni and me to Joe at Mid Ohio one year. I had not even heard about the Army Team, so it was really interesting to see all of the photos that Joe had with him, and to hear some of his stories. Paul and I had talked about this before, there should be a story written about him and the Army Team.
Larry is right Doe Run was on Highway 8 about 5 miles outside of Flat River(renamed Park Hills today) Potosi was about 10 miles further west of Doe Run. I never rode at Doe Run because my Mom & Dad's house was about a mile from the National forest & we had our own trails we rode & kept secret except for a few other buddies. We went back there about 15 years ago & they had grown up so much we had trouble finding them plus some of the private land now had houses on them. This is such a great thread very much enjoy the stories.My 1st Penton was a 72 125 I bought from Dave Larson(ran Dave Munganast's store). Dave M was there the day I picked it up & I tried to get him to throw in a Belstaff jacket& I think he gave me 10% off.Dave & I became friends after I got into the M/C business.I would tell him that story & we would both have a chuckle on how things had changed.I got a loan for that Penton from the teachers credit union & it was the 1st M/C loan they had ever made.Sorry for the long winded story but the memories just kind of flood back.Thanks
Bob Jones
Show-me state
(2)74 Harescramblers,72 Jackpiner,68/69 6-Day,73 Harescrambler.
OK, it is really cold out, how about a little trivia.......
If you know ALL of the answers, please play nice, please answer one question and maybe give the others a chance, after 24 hours just go for it..
There are two pictures of riders at Doe Run, Penton riders and Husky riders, who can name them?
Which rider went on to ride Rokons and also developed Hot Grips?
Which rider was a really fast BSA racer, I think he may even have had a factory BSA ride for dirt track events?
Three of the riders pictured were part of father and son teams that rode the ISDT in the same year, who are they?
One of the riders rode in ISDT events, he son later was an ISDE rider, who is it?
One of the riders father, picked up the first 10 serial production Pentons from the Cleveland airport and delivered them to the Penton Brothers motorcycle dealership on March 7,1968, who is it, and who is the father?
One of the Husky riders family had a Husky and Penton dealership, another of the Husky riders pictured was a sub dealer for them, who was the dealer and who was the sub dealer?
Paul
OK, the answer to the Hotgrips/Rokon question is New England's Jim Hollander who also rode a Penton on the Vase B team at Dalton. Jim took Lane Leavitt's spot after Lane turned down a Bultaco ISDT ride to concentrate on winning the US trials championship for them. Lane's story is that Bultaco wanted him to ride a Matador and he wanted one of the prototype Frontera's that the Spanish trophy guys had. Bultaco said no and the rest is history.
As for the photos, my guess on the Husky photo left to right is Jake Fischer, Dick Burleson, Ron Bohn and Jim Piasecki.
How'd I do?
Jeff DeBell
Jeff,
Yep, you nailed it on both items. I just spent time with "Crazy" Jake Fischer on Friday, he just finished up a really nice Herc and is now working on restoring a Penton.
The question about a rider being a sub dealer for another of the rider's shop pertained to the fact that Jake sold Huskys and Pentons as a sub dealer for the Mel Bohn Cycle Shop in Pittsburgh. Mel Bohn was Ron's Dad. Jake also sold Greeves out of his basement shop which was located about 15 miles south of where he is located today.
Jake's building is located along a major highway in our area, it is known by the old Jawa that is strapped to the peak of the roof. Jake tells the story about being on vacation somewhere in the southern islands and being on a reef viewing trip. While traveling out to the reef he asked the guy next to him where he was from and the guy told him, when asked where he was from, Jake said Butler, PA. The guy said to Jake that he had been to Butler only one time in his life, a number of years ago, and the only thing he really remembered about the trip was going past a building with a motorcycle on it's roof...
Paul
Could Bill Uhl be the BSA dirt track rider? And were Bill and his father Herb one of the father & son ISDT riders?
Lee Buffenmyer
Lee,
Bill isn't the BSA rider that I am referring to, but maybe he did throw his leg over a BSA at one time. It might help in guessing the BSA rider if someone names all of the Penton riders.
Two more father and son teams to go.
You are correct about Bill and his dad Herb riding the ISDT together, they rode the ISDT together in 1969 in Germany and the 1970 ISDT in Spain, if the information that Jeff DeBell has compiled is correct:)
Paul
Paul,
I just noticed that "Doe Run" picture with Jim Piasecki in it. Way,way back when, I raced Penton's out of their Toledo shop (72-76). Loads of great memories from that shop and going to the races with Jim's brothers Jeff and Kevin! Anyway, great picture and by the way, this is a awesome site. Brings back some great memories!
Thanks,
Jeff Greenberg
Jeff,
I see that this is your first post, welcome aboard, we are really glad to have you as a member of the POG message board family.
If you don't mind, please fill us in a little more on your riding and racing days. There are a number of guys who frequent this message board who rode out of the Piasecki's shop, maybe you will get hooked up with a few old friends.
Again, welcome to the Group.
Paul
Thanks Paul, that was really nice!
Well, in'73 I was aboard a Berkshire. In '74 and '75 I had my "six days".
Loved those bikes!
Raced those Pentons all over Ohio. Delta, Honda Hills, Medina, Ravenna, Gallion. And of course Weidner's "Mid Ohio".
I was very good friends with the late Jon Leak back in those days. They were like family.
Other riders from Piasecki's shop that I remember: Ron Yarkow; Doug Beasley; Jim Greenfield; Bob Taylor; Mark Tracy.
Other Penton mounted racers that I remember from those days at the races are the likes of: Bob Crosier; Joe Trettle (Pa);J. Horniek; Dane Leimbach; Rick Walsworth; Doug Kane; Doug Beam; Jon Nagy; Regg Raider. Ha, had to dig deep for some of those!
Thanks,
Jeff
Jeff,
That is quite an impressive list of riders that you knew and raced against.
I have no idea what part of the country that you live in now, but if you are still in the Ohio area you might enjoy attending a Penton Owners Group meeting. Membership is not required, you will most likely get a chance to meet a number of guys out of your past and most times John Penton attends the meetings just to keep us straight:)
We usually meet the first Thursday of each month at the KTM headquarters in Amherst, Ohio. This month we are meeting a week later because of New Years day being on our normal meeting day. Our meeting is this coming Thursday, Jan 8th at 7 pm.
Our Feb. meeting is held at the Motorcycle Hall of Fame Museum in Pickerington, Ohio, we always have a special topic for this all day affair and this year the topic is the 50th anniversary of John Penton's record setting transcontinental run on a BMW. The meeting date is Saturday, February 7th. The doors open at 9 and the meeting gets under way at 10am.
Paul
Paul, thanks for the very kind invite! I most certainly would love to attend a POG meeting. Problem is that I live in Scottsdale, Arizona. Ideally, I could work it into a trip at some point. It would be awesome to come to one of the Penton events. I did do some vintage motocross out here about 12 years ago. I was riding a 250 Husky at the time. I believe that the main guy in charge at that time was Dave Boydson. I do miss Ohio except in the middle of the winter. :)
Thanks,
Jeff