For those of use that keep up with the 6 Days:
OFF-ROAD - FIM Denies ISDE Riders Medals
By Kit Palmer
FIM Says "No Medals" 9/28/2004
It turns out that the riders who did not participate in the final motocross test at the recently concluded International Six Days Enduro in Poland have been denied their medals. The AMA, however, has announced that it has filed a formal appeal with the Fédération Internationale de Motocyclisme (FIM), protesting the denial of finisher's medals to 23 members of Team USA.
According to a release from the AMA, the American riders - who are among the many Class II and Class III competitors, nearly two-thirds of all ISDE participants, also denied medals - chose not to ride the motocross course on the event's final day because the track's dusty conditions were judged by riders and team officials to be unsafe.
Requests from Team USA and others to cancel the motocross event for safety reasons were denied. Competitors first were informed that failing to ride the final moto would carry a penalty of one minute for each lap not ridden; later, it was announced that medals would not be awarded to riders who did not finish the course.
"These talented riders traveled thousands of miles and spent their own money to compete for personal and team pride," said AMA President Robert Rasor. "We're simply asking that our riders be awarded the medals that they earned."
What a waste of time after people had already lost their lives earlier in the week. Just my take.
Ron Carbaugh
The Motocross Des Nations has lost a lot of it's lustre in recent years. I wonder if the ISDE will run the same course? Conflict is often the cause for change, but it can also be the influence for ruin.
Mick,
Interesting comment! I personally feel that the Moto Des Nations would have died in the 80's if it had not been for Roger DeCoster selling the importance to American Honda. It was really a great thing in those days(early 80's). I feel that possible the lack of interest left when Roger separated from Honda(the first time) with all the clout that Honda has in World Racing. Just my take.
Ron Carbaugh
Politics rears its ugly head once again. What ever happened to professionalism, respect, and honor? TED
It left when it became about the money. I am not a bubba fan exactly but I have got to say that I admire him for staying with Kawasaki all these years.(not that I am a kawasaki fan eithr) I am sure that other companies have tried to lure him away with big contracts but he has stayed true.
Thom Green,Still crazy after all these years!
76' 250 MC5 (orginal owner)
78' 400 MC5
Speaking of class look at Jeff Ward. All his years with Kawasaki and he was even helped by Kawasaki when he went Indy Racing which to me, signaled how they honored him for his past dedication, charater and integrity.[^]
Ron Carbaugh
The Motocross Des Nations has lost a lot of it's lustre in recent years. I wonder if the ISDE will run the same course? Conflict is often the cause for change, but it can also be the influence for ruin.
Mick,
Interesting comment! I personally feel that the Moto Des Nations would have died in the 80's if it had not been for Roger DeCoster selling the importance to American Honda. It was really a great thing in those days(early 80's). I feel that possible the lack of interest left when Roger separated from Honda(the first time) with all the clout that Honda has in World Racing. Just my take.
Ron Carbaugh
Politics rears its ugly head once again. What ever happened to professionalism, respect, and honor? TED
It left when it became about the money. I am not a bubba fan exactly but I have got to say that I admire him for staying with Kawasaki all these years.(not that I am a kawasaki fan eithr) I am sure that other companies have tried to lure him away with big contracts but he has stayed true.
Thom Green,Still crazy after all these years!
76' 250 MC5 (orginal owner)
78' 400 MC5
Speaking of class look at Jeff Ward. All his years with Kawasaki and he was even helped by Kawasaki when he went Indy Racing which to me, signaled how they honored him for his past dedication, charater and integrity.[^]
Ron Carbaugh
Yep class act... did not know Kawasaki helped him when he did the Indy car thing. Any idea what he is doing now? I really do not follow car racing. I like it... sort of, I would just rather watch bike racing especially Motocross but I even like speedway and roadracing. Not much of a following for speedway in this country. Hmmm like a few other types of off road compititon. Hmm must be the money thing again.
Thom Green,Still crazy after all these years!
76' 250 MC5 (orginal owner)
78' 400 MC5
Thom,
Jeff is now racing SuperMoto and still dabbles in car racing. This guy seems to get faster the older he gets. Here is a update on I think his last win.
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Jeff Ward won today's second round of the AMA Supermoto Championship in Copper Mountain, Colorado, a race run under beautiful skies for the second day in a row. The day included a full unique set of heat races, semis and Superpole competition, so the guys who didn't make the main on Saturday got a second shot at it today.
In the Supermoto class it was Alexandre Thiebault of France stealing the holeshot and running at the front for the first three laps before getting passed by Doug Henry on the Troy Lee Designs Honda. Ward held down third early in the race.
After winning on Saturday, Henry again looked to be on his way to the double win, but it wasn't to be as he lost his clutch on the 12th lap. This handed the lead to Thiebault, who had Ward working hard to get past. Ward got the lead a few laps later over the metal table-top jump, and never looked back to take a commanding win.
Jurgen Kunzel got off to a poor start and was well down in seventh position. He eventually worked his way to the front, but wasn't able to get around Thiebault and endd up finishing third. Kurt Nicoll battled at the front all race long and kept Kunzel in sight securing fourth at the finish. Steve Drew rode his American Supercamps White Brothers Honda to fifth after running up front early in the race. Sixth was occupied by Frenchman David Baffeleuf, with Mark Burkhart coming from the second to last row to grab seventh. Ben Carlson came from the last row to grab eighth after missing the main on Saturday. In ninth was Gary Trachy, who had crashed out on Saturday, with Mike Metzger rounding out the top 10.
In the Unlimited Supermoto final it was once again Kunzel stealing the show. Kunzel got the holeshot and led wire to wire. Red Bull KTM's Kurt Nicoll hounded Kunzel all race long, putting tons of pressure on his teammate and finishing just under a second behind. Micky Dymond finished third for the second day in a row, but wasn't able to run the pace of the leaders after getting a poor start. Darryl Atkins ran a strong fourth, with Ben Carlson finishing fifth.
Ron Carbaugh
I may get shouted down for this but as an experienced enduro rider I always had the right to stop racing an event if it got to nasty, dusty or dangerous. With that said, I never felt I had the right to demand a trophy if I did quit. I don't know the situation, but some things are out of the control of the organizers such as trail, weather conditions. As the Six-Days are organized the final MX is part of the event. Many medals were lost in the final Mx under the old system. And I am sure under the current system many have been earned back. Just my take. Ted
Ted,
I think your view point is valid, but I don't think in this situation you (or I) have all the facts. I also feel that this particular event had gotten out of hand due to the conditions. Some people never make that important link between Common Sense and the throttle which is understandable to a degree for any racer.
I will hold back any further comments until I talk with someone who was actually there. About your comment on quiting or better yet choosing the smarter side of withdrawing from an event due to safety. I have seen finishing sections thrown out (by the rules) and people, who for the same reasons ended up finishing well, even though they had withdrawn.
Finally I don't think that anyone is demanding anything that they hadn't already earned under the rules in place. Rules people that I know are Doug, Dane and Dwight. One of them should be able to shed more light on the rules are as far as riding a final event..........[?]
Ron Carbaugh
Amen, Ted.
Today's riders consist of too many primadonnas. The American riders are especially this way. It would be one thing if they actually did well at that game(ISDE) but we traditionally are at the best average. As a team Americans have very rarely finished at the front at the ISDE or the ISDT.
Bad conditions are that way for everybody. Deal with it or quit the game and don't whine. Unsafe doesn't float either. When did motorized sports get safe? I never raced the motorcycle as an adult that I didn't go into it with the knowledge that I could die. I don't dwell on that I just go in prepared; physically, with the best of protection, and as tight as possible with the guy upstairs.
I believe we should rethink who we send to the ISDE. I am a firm believer that if what you do long term doesn't work you should try something else. Our lack of success in this venue should make us look in a different direction.
Okay, Ted that should take the heat off you and send the hornets my way. Thanks for not being afraid to tell us the Emperor is wearing no clothes.
Larry P
Ron: I should have mentioned that I have ridden about a dozen 2 days over the years. As far as I remember, no time in the final is the same as a DNF. Way back in the day, I got over 60 minutes ahead of schedule and got onto the morning course along with about a dozen hot shoes. Followed arrows all the way. We had gotten ahead of the course markers (pathfinders) and missed final checkpoint. Guess what? Disqualified for being too fast! Riders after nuber 10 had no problem. I know I don't have all the facts but everyone should have boycotted or be prepared for the outcome. Many of us have ridden terible events with *%#%$% trail layout and marking but in my opinion that's part of the sport. Complain at the end or help layout the next event. Ted
Ted,
What I am talking about is the "out come". I don't know the rules of FIM and how they affect a riders metal if someone doesn't ride the final MX event. Do you?
Thats why I said some past riders of the 6 day may help with the rules.
Ron Carbaugh
It has been 24 years since I last rode an ISD?, so things may have changed since then. But as I recall, if you don't ride the final test, you get a time penalty that then is applied to your score.
The thing I can't understand about this situation, is why it was not handled at the final Jury meeting. That is where all the dice hit the table, and things are worked out, so why wasn't this? From all that I've read, this whole issue must have come up after the event was all said and done, and nobody had a clue that the medals were going to be held up.
As for the course preparation, that was all well and good, when the event was about just team competition, but now it'a all about money, just like motocross. With sponsors footing the bill for the teams, if the sponsors can't get their nickle's worth, then it isn't worth going. My guess, is that since the riders wouldn't have control of their finishes, due to the course conditions, it was in their best interests to not have the event held.
There is one other issue that we haven't hashed out. Keep in mind, that at this year's event, four people died during the event. Admittedly, they didn't all die as a direct result of the competition, but never the less, there were tradgedies. If the dust was making the final test too dangerous, it may have been in the best interest of the riders, to not hold the final test. That should have been the decision of the Clerk of the Course though, not the riders.
I'm sure there were lots of issues, and it may take a long time for all of them to be brought to light. It is sad though, that the event had deteriorated from the pinacle of off road competition to just another commercially driven event.
Dane
Just somewhat of a update?
Seems that the last day had a lot more action than just on the track. I talked with a friend that his daughter attended and she said that the had the smaller class final and then the Spanish riders protested. Someone from England lined up to race and I guess the fight broke out.
This was learned during a brief call so well see what happened and what the final fall out is on the medals.
Ron Carbaugh
Just to follow through on something I started:
AMA wins appeal for U.S. ISDE team
October 29, 2004 – The American Motorcyclist Association (AMA) has announced that 23 members of the U.S. team to the International Six Days Enduro (ISDE) will receive finishers medals they were denied by organizers of the event, which was held in Poland in September.
The decision to award the medals follows a successful appeal by the AMA to an International Disciplinary Court of the Fédération Internationale de Motocyclisme (FIM), international sanctioning body for motorcycle competition.
The American riders were among many Class II and Class III competitors -- nearly two-thirds of all ISDE participants -- who chose not to ride the motocross course on the event's final day because the track's dusty conditions were judged by riders and team officials to be unsafe.
Requests from Team USA and others to cancel the motocross event for safety reasons were denied. Competitors first were informed that failing to ride the final moto would carry a penalty of one minute for each lap not ridden; later, it was announced that medals would not be awarded to riders who did not finish the course.
The Disciplinary Court sided with the AMA, overturning the decision by organizers to withhold the medals and eliminating any time penalties for failing to ride the motocross test. The court noted that "an unusual accumulation of adverse circumstances" was the responsibility of the organizer, and therefore the U.S. team should be awarded their medals, and be included in the final results.
Ron Carbaugh