Just got back from the RR and found the package I had been waiting on for three months, so enclosed is a link to view...
Of note, Andy was not able to reproduce the bullet style end cap so I opted for one of his generic canister types which does have it's merits, the end cap is a one piece unit that slides out for easy repacking...
The unit mounted up very well with minimal tweaking...
There are no seam flanges that you have to deal with when rotating the pipe during install, and I did not have to tilt the carb either...
There is ample clearance above the fins and near the area where the pipe passes past the end of the side panel...
So far so good...
This pipe is for 76 MC5 400
Thanks, and enjoy. Now to the tub for a soak!
http://cone.viawest.net/users/dkwracer/ace
Howdy DKWracer, nice pipe! If you don't mind me asking what did it cost you to have this pipe made? Also hope you did well at the Reuion Ride! Did you ride a DKW or a Penton? Thanks for any help Crash Carden: GO TEAM PENTON!
Crash, the price was 175.00 but may come down as mine was the first, suggest a call to Andy @ ACE, he is listed under Suppliers..Had a great w/e at RR, was 4th OA leading into the MX where a getoff occurred (no harm) I think MX points/standings don't matter according to their documentation, will have to wait for the final talley etc...
Just seeing and listening to "Bugsy" Mann was worth the trip.....
Thanks, Tom........(75/175 +50 PV)
Do any of you in POG-land know if there are differences between the 250 and 400 MC5 pipe? I have a couple of pipes but don't know for sure if they are the 250 (which is what my bike is). If someone knows some specs then I could measure my pipes and send one to Andy as a prototype. The bummer of the deal is that they aren't in the best of shape. Anybody have a nice one to prototype from?
Mike Husted
The pipes are the same except the 400 pipe has a larger dia silencer/ stinger, around a inch I think?, and the silencer/stinger is a little longer.
Mike,
Since Andy won't be using the stock stinger/silencer setup then, the pipe he is making should work on both the 400 and 250, right? This is obviously good news since a bunch of us have 250's.
Mike Husted
I have a stock pipe that is in good shape. It came off my 250. When ProtoPipe made a custom pipe for me I pulled the stock one off and kept it. It has no dents and only a little surface rust. I could give that up for a proto type but it looks to me all that would really be needed is the specs for that pipe. I am stil running the after market pipe and would like to get a similar pipe for the 400 but that will have to be sometime in the future.
As far as I can tell Protopipe is no longer in business and I have no idea how to get a hold of the owner.
Thom Green,Still crazy after all these years!
76' 250 MC5 (orginal owner)
78' 400 MC5
No, You need the larger dia/longer stinger for the 400. I can get the exact size. Should be an easy change for the pipe maker.
Late last week I got a E mail from someone who wished to buy my pipe. I want to make it clear that I have no intention of selling the stock pipe or the aftermarket pipe for my 250. My offer was to allow a pipe builder to use it to get the specs if need be. The aftermarket pipe is quite different, It resembles the stock pipe on my 78 400 . It Coming out of the cylinder it drops down 6 inches or so and then sweeps up. on the outside of the downtube and then a hard right over the head and then back across to the other side of the bike. this put the whole pipe much further forward. It is a custom pipe made for my bike on my bike. I do not know if any others were made or not. so it is very rare indeed. What makes this pipe possible is the fact that two of the pieces of the pipe were made in a hydralic press that shaped them and then welded together. It is very cool or at least I thing so and I have not seen another like it. If there is a down side to this it does not look stock and with the pipe being lower in front of the engine the possibility is greater that a rock could alter the shape of the pipe. This may not be the best kind of pipe for the woods but for motocross it would be fine. For me my race bikes do not have to look stock, but I think that they should look like a bike that was raced back then. So it should be period correct.
Speaking of pipes does some one make a 400 pipe for a 75? I have a stock one but I do not like it. it is big and ugly. It sticks way too far out the side making rider movement more difficult. It sticks out alot farther (two or more inches farther out) than the stock pipe on the MC5 250 or the stock pipe on the 78 MC5 400 I think that a better pipe could be made. Just my take.... Maybe it does not matter to anyone to me. :D
Thom Green,Still crazy after all these years!
76' 250 MC5 (orginal owner)
78' 400 MC5
Very nice pipe Tom, but I'm more interested in the hint of numerous KTMs in the background - how about a few more pics of your garage?
Maybe we should start a thread showing people's garage... or is that a bit like asking to see photos of the wife/girlfriend/mistress :D
VMX1963
Western Australia
//www.vmxktm.net
Tom,
there is a file in the library that has a Carl Cranke 400 pipe. You need the stock pipe for the base line measurements then modify it as shown. the pipe with the port mods shown give you another 6 hp on a 400. Remove the shroud and use a good scilencer and you should have a lot more leg clearance on the stock pipe.
John D.
Thanks John, It was nice meeting you at the Reunion Ride. I will check that out. I am not too excited about cutting up a stock pipe since there seems to be so few of them. I was hoping that someone made a aftermarket pipe even if it is to stock specs. I may see if there is a Pipe guy local that would be interested in making me a pipe. I have no idea if there is but you never know if you do not look. Thanks again !
Thom Green,Still crazy after all these years!
76' 250 MC5 (orginal owner)
78' 400 MC5
Hey Thom,
You beat me by 24 seconds at the ISTDR!!!!! I really wanted to visit with you but never got a chance - what a great weekend. I am looking for a "snake" pipe for my 400. I think the '78 MC5 pipe you described is what I am looking for. Or maybe a '79 or '80 pipe. If you find the info on who is building these pipes or can build them, I would like to hear about it. The ACE pipe looks like the standard earlier 400 pipe and I have one of them on my Mint 400. I believe the snake pipe will give the engine better low end and mid range power/torque and is not as "pipey" as the straight pipe. I may be completely wrong about this, but I do know that everyone migrated to snake pipes in the late '70s for a reason. I know it is AHRMA legal to use a snake pipe even on the vintage (pre 1974) bikes. I am like you in not caring how Stock or period correct I am on my race bikes, I just want them to beat the Maicos and CZs and be AHRMA legal!!!! By the way, in Kentucky last weekend my 400 MC80 beat a 440 Maico by a handsome margin!!!!
Looking for a snake pipe for a 400.
Teddy
Nice looking pipe. Please post your performance evaluation. Now who is building a good pipe for the Sachs 125? Or has specs to build one?
Bob Brizzee
Bob,
I believe Kevin at Circle F pipes in Houston has a jig for a pipe.
Ron Carbaugh
Tom, Teddy,
You might want to look closely at the Cranke Pipe.
It has a hedder that tapers and the first difuser has a double taper also.
All the measurements are there to build a pipe from scratch including radius bends for the head pipe.
Its in the files section under 400 mint
it looks very different from the 250 Cranke pipe.
Does anyone know where the Ace 400 pipe makes its power and how wide the band is?
Ron , is the circle F pipe the same power curve as a stock Six-Day pipe?
John D.
John,
I haven't taken one for a spin nor have I measured or ask Kevin where he got the specs. John I am not ignoring you on the velosity stack information.
Ron Carbaugh
Ron,
I did'nt think you were chuckle chuckle.
Say are you going to put that stroker military crank in a 100 MX Berkie or a bike used for the RR? * GRIN *
John D.
Gee Whiz guys, I never knew that a simple post could actually open some doors, as luck would have it our way!!! Look, I sent a completely stock pipe to Andy in hopes of bringing me a pipe for one of my MC5's...NO it has not been tested!!!! But it does not mean that you can't try....my 400's even in stock shape (reliability in mind) are enough to propel my 130 lbs.
This forum continues to AMAZE....
Tom........
DKW,
What year pipe did you send Andy?
It would be good to get the dimentions back from Andy and save that info to a file for later. Unless you can roll your own cones at home NO one could build a pipe cheaper than the one you had made.
Ron could you get the same info from the folks in Texas on the 125 pipe?
You folks already know this but some new members might not, the pipe is the cam shaft on a 2 stroke. It controls to a great extent when and how much power is made at what RPM.
Having he specs on the stock pipe that came on our bikes would be a great help in the years to come. I'm thinking of the future if and when the two above vendors may not find it profitable to make pipes for us in the years to come.
John D.
John, this thing got me to thinking, since I have both a stock 250 pipe and a aftermarket pipe that is different than stock, what would be the best way to measure them? I am curious to see what differences there are. This might be of some help to someone in the future. What needs to be measured? When measureing a cone, and it curves do I meaure the outside of the curve and the endside of the curver and then average it? I would think the the length and diameter would be important too.
Thom Green,Still crazy after all these years!
76' 250 MC5 (orginal owner)
78' 400 MC5
Ted, I did not know I beat you. And that on my somewhat trick 250, BigMac thought I should have brought my 400. That is the plan next year. I noticed that I would have silvered in the expert class too. So now what do I do, do I go up to intermediate or do I race expert... I beat all the experts in the final moto but one and the guy that won was an intermediate. He was fast. Maybe it was one of those rare days were everything just clicked. Locally I have some trouble beating a bunch of the intermediates. there are some fast guys up here and they keep me on my toes. Often times it is hard to tell because lot of the intermediate are just as fast as the experts. By the way BigMac beat me by 30 seconds?... something like that. He had a great ride too. BigMac and I had a great time and it was the topic for most of the ride home. 30 hours worth... [8D]
Very cool stuff
Thom Green,Still crazy after all these years!
76' 250 MC5 (orginal owner)
78' 400 MC5
Tom,
You would need to measure the header pipe, first cone ( the diffuser),
straight section, the last cone ( the baffle) and the stinger or bleed pipe down the center line of the pipe for length. Measure the OD on the cones at each end less the thickness of the metal( ID is what you are looking for) .That will give you the angle of each cone to be rolled. Some diffusers have 2 tapers. Some headers have 2 diameters( look at the Cranke pipe in the library it shows what lengths and ID's are needed ). then the od of the header, straight section and bleed pipe.
Its not so easy to do on a pipe like our Pentons came with because some or all of them were stamped out in 2 sections and the half's welded together.
I have measured a 125 Six-day pipe but don't know how accurate I am. The 175 pipe may have a diffuser with 2 cones in it stock. it sure looks like that to me when I put the 175 piner pipe on my 125 frame.
Did I explain this ok? Its a lot to try and put down on paper but it makes sense once you see a diagram of a pipe design
John D.