Has anyone ever taken off a .5mm off the air box side of the slide to make the throttle response better? Thanks Guys
Thomas Carmichael
Yes! Years ago I'm sure there was some update or service bulletin that had you file a notch in the slide to help clean up bottom end response. A friend of mine who was a Penton dealer remembers it too. I can't find it anywhere in print though. It came out at about the same time as the brass atomizer update, I beleive. I can't tell you the exact dimensions of the notch but I did it years ago and it helped out. Anybody else remember this?
Lew Mayer
Thanks Lew ! Can you remember if it was a notch or was the whole side cut back? Thanks
Thomas Carmichael
I have seen just the notch Tom,
I have an old 175 Jackpiner slide with the notch cut in it. Ask Speedy he will know. Its an old Bing trick that was used on Zundapps and Pentons years ago.
I did a lot of trimming the slide cut away years ago on Mikuni's when we did reed kit intstalls on Hodakas. The differences in carb sizes, pipes and porting made it necessary. I had several 1.5 slides for the 26 mm body size and the 28 mm on hand and would cut them for the specific bike. Saved me haveing to stock a bunch of different slides in different cutaways giving us the right one for each engine to run its best.
John D.
It was only a square notch but I don't know the exact dimensions by the book.
Lew Mayer
Regarding the Bing carbs, does anybody know where there is a source for the cut away Atomizer/Vaporizer, Penton part #40-404 ? I tried Bing several months ago when ordering some parts, but it didn't ring a bell with them. I remember there was somebody trying maybe a year ago to locate them, and hoping they had success, and can pass it along to me please. I'm making notes on the slide cut away, and hoping for the specs there as well. Regards, Nelson
wnm
Just took a 30 mm Bing apart, and it has the slide notched, will measure it tonight and post dim.s.
3 putt, I have some old cut away spray bars, send me a pm, and I'll get one to you.
GC
Hi Thomas, the dimension for the notch on the Bing 30mm is .192(w)X .081(h) as close as I can measure. I think it would be the same for most Bing slides.
Nelson, I have two used extra's, one is brass and the other is (looks like) steel. A "Freebie" just let me know your preference and details in a pm. George
GC
Thomas,
I just talked to Speedy about the slide notch. Bing sent a service bullitin out on it. He will scan it and e-mail me with it. He said they cut it in all sizes of bings that didnt come with it. He said it is a 2mm x 2 mm notch dead center of the slide. It allows the slide to drop down much farther and the bike to idle cleaner.
We will post the Bing fix as soon as we get it in the library.
John D.
Thanks Guys !!! John you might have to help me to get into your site ! Every time I tried my password would not work and I couldn't get another one.
Thomas Carmichael
Tom, sent you an e-mail.
We have 2 files from Speedy on the slide notches. One is a factory fix from Bing dated 1974. Its in German and a little fuzzy but we will try and sharpen it up enough so we can post it.
The file with the small Bings shows a notch about 2mm x 2 mm
The one in German has several different cuts depending on which carb you have (the bigger 30 to 38 mm type 54's). The size notch apears to be related to which cutaway you have on your slide.
When Peter gets home ill see if he can use Photo shop to sharpen up the words and #'s and we will see if Babble Fish can translate them enough it will help you folks.
Sorry for the delay,
John D
Thanks,John, I'd love to print that out for my files.
Lew Mayer
On the 400's back in "The Day" there was a factory mod via bulletin that had the notch on the front and some cut-away on the back of the slide maintaining the original angle. I just don't remember the how much part. Too long ago and too many head wacks.
Larry P
Thomas,
From what we can translate and what George has found we think you can cut your 36 mm slide with a 4.5 mm wide 2mm high notch. We are hopeing Speedy can get us a copy that is not so fuzzy to translate. We can get most of the words but some of the leters and #'s are too fuzzy to make out.
It looks like on the sheet, A is the slide cutaway measure in mm.
L is the width of the notch for each slide and F the height of the notch is a constant not given. Some of the slides listed used a 7 mm wide notch but we are not sure at this time from the part #'s listed which one you have . If you use the 4.5 mm notch specs it should help and you can always go wider to 7 mm later if needed.
Make sure you have a good slide , needle jet ( if in doubt change it out,:) they wear fast), needle, the float is the right height , float needle working like it should and no air leaks.
We posted both pages in the library. One thing we found that was very interesting. Bing sold chrome plated slides back then. I wish we had known that. A chrome slide would have lasted 4 or 5 times as long as the zink ones do.
The Slides are listed by part #'s on the tech sheet. The 75 KTM parts book we have shows a 22-746 -1 slide for the 250 and 400 carbs (That would need the 4.5mm wide 2 mm high notch). The slides listed on the sheet are 22-745-..... last # depending on cutaway and size of the slide.
Bet this is more info that we wanted to know chuckle chuckle. Seems like the more I learn the more I realize how little I realy know :D
Hope this helps folks,
John D.
Thank You John for going the extra mile for myself and others here in POG, you and people like you are what makes the POG group so great!! Now this notch is on the filter side in the middle of the slide,correct? Thanks Again:)
Thomas Carmichael
Tom,
Its dead center, in the middle of the bottom of the
slide on the side closest to the engine. You can see 1 or 2 small holes just in front of where the notch should go in the the bottom of the carb bore on the engine side.
John D.
Thanks John !!
Thomas Carmichael
John,
I have had several people email me on this post and there seems to be some confusion(whatelse is new?). John D. You say on your post 11/17/04 that the notch should be cut on the slide on the side closest to the engine. Since i have never seen the Bulletin and have always taken and trimed the slide on the airbox side please expalins so that there is not a misunderstanding. Thanks from people that will remain anonomous and besides I may learn a new trick....[:p].
Ron Carbaugh
Ron,
Its a notch cut in the slide to improve metering at idle and just above. Its a trick that works good on some engines. Changeing the slide cutaway would help more at slightly greater throttle opening.
I have watched Team Germany ( Speedy and crew) modify slides for Zundapps and 2 of the last type 54's I have rebuilt had slides with notches cut in them. I posted the 2 files in the Library but one is a bit fuzzy. Speedy will send us a clearer one when he can play with his scanner next. Your listed on the members list for the library so you could download the files and print them. It would help more to see the info. If you can give me a call and i can explain it better.
Trying to put everything down on paper is hard for guys like me that were dragged kicking and screaming into the computer age [:p]
Speedy is a wealth of information folks. He has been involved in a lot of ISDT/E events and worked with factory teams for many years.
Ron we are working on a machine that will scan yours and Speedys brain. It will give us a listing and print all the things that you guys have learned over the years about setup on bikes ;) .
Now that would be one library the Group could use into the next century :D chuckle chuckle!!!!!!!
John D.
JOHN,
Scan Doug Wilford's brain. Where do you think all this information started from. Doug was and still is the GO TO GUY. Doug is going to give me something a lot worse than a time out for what I said. But the truth is the truth. Per
Ron Carbaugh
John,
I will be happ to go to the library, but what side of the slide is the notch cut for the bulletin that went out? Thanks...maybe I am not explaining what I want to know?
Ron Carbaugh
Ron ,
Doug watches the board a lot an always pops in with help when its asked for and chuckle chuckle when we are off course bent on a destructive tangent [8D]. Doug is the first guy I would ask when one of my ( well this seems like a good idea) comes to me. You know the kind you have when you first start to wake up but are not really conscious yet. :D Several times he has kept me out of trouble with my motor.
On that note, have you worked out the port timing on the 100 with the military crank yet? [}:)]
John D.
Ron, we must be on the board typing at the same time LOL.
Its the side oposite from the cutaway. The flat bottom edge that would cut all the air off to the engine if the side were all the way down in the bore. The page with the 24-27 mm bing info has a good picture of the placement. I can send it e-mail its a very small file. want it now?
JOhn D.
John,
Yes please send it. I understand what happens when you cut away the slide. So to help everyone understand the engine side of the slide is what this post is addressing...Correct? People are emailing me for an explaination and I haven't really been paying attention to the back and forth on this particular post.
Ron Carbaugh
Ron ,
It should be in your mailbox now. It works best with a NOS bottle installed. One that looks like Pauls spare shock body on his Dalton bike. :D
Yes it is the engine side of the slide that gets the notch Ron all jesting aside.
JOhn D.
John,
Actually Paul is going to be MAD at YOU for this information spilling out on the site. I hope you are in good standing i.e. dues are paid and friendly to Doug.[:o)]
I got the drawing and will try this on a carb as soon as I have time. I think I had only used that on small carb??? Could be wrong...again.[8] But it should work on small as well as large carburetors.[:0]
Ron Carbaugh
Ron ,
The other file has the size for the larger carbs broken down to slide part #'s i will send it also. Its just very hard to read some of the #'s. You should have it now.
John D.
John,
Got it...have a great vacation.
Ron Carbaugh
Thank You John !! :)
Thomas Carmichael
I've seen that notch on a few of the large slides and always wondered about it. Thanks guys! Boy if I only knew then (the 70's) what I know now...
Mike,
Your competitors had their hands full with you as it was (is)[:o)]. Did you read the message on the Santa Fe sign?
Ron Carbaugh
Make SURE when cutting your slide cause a new one is $115.00 and that is Alum. not chrome.
Thomas Carmichael
Thomas, You bring up a good point. Those Bing slides are worth there weight in gold. I realize the thinking is that the slide should wear more easily than the carb so you can replace the cheaper part when it's no longer usable. But boy do they cost. I find this the biggest drawback when talking Bing. By all meens think about it before everybody starts filing notches into their carb slides. Gavin.