Hello, I need to see if the engine on my 125 is frozen up or not to start. It has been sitting for years and years. I have it off the frame. I have no kick starter on it or gear shift. What can I do to make sure it is free moving? And were can I get the kick starter and gear shift? I have never worked on a motor cycle before but only on cars. Should I take the gears out? I don't know if it is in gear or out of gear. Any help is welcome. This Penton is in bad shape as far as the engine goes and missing parts. So I am starting at square one.
Thanks people.
Jimmy Kearney /
[email protected]
Jim, Wecome to the Best of all sites!If you want a shifter i have the m as well as kicker.Or you can just try turning it over with your hands on the flywhell.Herm
Herm
Hey Jimmy, Have you ever thought of sending the motor out to Doug Wilford or Kip Kern ? Kip rebuilt my 250 motor and made it look brand new ! And Doug rebuilt one for "Swamp Fox" Robert Manucy and I know he was in love with Dougs work also. Doug is the master of Sachs motors.I also do all the work on my cars but when you don't have the right tools I have found it costs me more money in the long run.Just my two cents,hope you don't take offense.:)
Thomas Carmichael
I just want to have something to do. And I love mechanical and electrical. I have the engine in front of me now in my basement. And now I start to see if I have the tools to take it apart. Wish me luck and keep the info coming please. I will get it running somehow.[8]
I have the head off. The seats and all look good. But someone has done this before. There is a dent on the top of the piston, like they tried to hit it with a screw driver to free it. Just a small nick. I now have the piston were I can see the whole piston and shaft. I don't see any rings. Is this normal? The piston will not move freely by hand. I am just trying to move it by pushing on the top of the piston.as well as pulling.
The electronico????? Seems to be hard to get off. it is turning the piston when I try to undo it. Is that normal? Is it an alternater or a generater?
You must have a Motoplat Ignition Aluminum fly wheel. Remember all nuts on the right side of the engine are left hand thread You need a special puller for the flywheel the sprocket is on a taper that nut is also left handed. The Germans loved to make things fit by shimming and if you are not familiar and have the tools you are in for alot of fun, but that is what it is all about, having fun.
Thanks, So what way should I turn this to get it off? It does not seem to turn in either direction. P.S. it says Motoplat on it. Man thanks for all the help.
OK Doug, I got the nut off. Now do I need the puller to take the rest off? Oh, Do you guys mind me asking this stuff??????????? If so I will just go for it. If not I will seek your help. Just let me know. Thanks.
Keep asking that's what this is all about.
Ron Carbaugh
Jim, Keep asking till you get the answer to your quest! If not you could be making a high $$$$ decision .[:p]
Thomas Carmichael
Yep, you will need a special puller to remove the flywheel. I would suggest that you try to obtain the special tools you will need to tackle this project. Pullers and holders and repair manual will be needed. Check the Parts Link and contact those people to find the tools you are going to have to have. Have Fun!
Doug, I am ordering the manual monday. I pulled the cover off the magnito. Now it is just the red part. I can get to the screws behind it now. Should I take them off? Or the ones on the body of the engine? I tried but they will not turn so I stopped till I get the manual. Should I, or Could I go any farther? Thanks for all the help.
The red part is the stator. To retain your ignition timing use a chisel, and mark the stator plate with the case for reinstalling of the stator later. Rmove the three screws and the red part. Sometimes you need an impact wrench to get the case screws loose. But I suggest you wait for your manual. Removing the case screws is much later in the disassembly. Most every thing in the clutch side needs to be removed first.
Doug
Thanks Doug, great info. I am just waiting to get the manual now. I ordered it so it should be here tomorrow. I wonder what is making it so stiff to move the piston. It maybe in gear?
Jim,
Maybe I am missing something here? Do you have the cylinder off yet? If not put some type of penetrating oil around it and let it set for several days and keep the treatment up everyday.
Ron Carbaugh
Jim- There's no reason to take the ignition apart any further or remove the red magneto stator (with wires coming out of it) unless you have no spark and are needing to replace it, or are needing to reset the timing. If you can't kick it over yet because the piston is still hanging up or dragging in the cylinder, then you can't realistically check to see if it's got spark (unless, of course, you want to take it off and ship it out to be tested professionally---not necessary at this point, I'd say).
Even if you decide to split the cases to check on the tranny, replace bearings or overhaul the crank, the stator assembly can stay in place and will come off with the left side case when you disassemble. In the side of the crankshaft where the aluminum magneto "wheel" was installed, there's a small keyway with a key that held the magneto from spinning on the shaft--be sure to poke the key out and save it for re-installation of the magneto...otherwise it will damage the seal that's behind it when you pull the cases apart. Mac
You should replace all seals and gaskets before reassembly of your engine. The mag side seal is much easier changed if the stator is removed.
Mac, I do want to look at the tranny and the bearings. Everything seems to be really stiff. Just waiting on the manual now. I thought I would have it today, but with Christmas here I am sure it will be late. What I have now is the main body with the head and covers off. Also the magnito aluminium cover is off and I see the key. The engine is off the bike and on the floor. The chain sproket and nut are still on. As well as the red portion of the ignition. I can't get the screws loose that hold the main body together.
Doug, I will need all the seals and gaskets. And what do the rings look like? I don't see any on the piston. Shouldn't there be at least two? I know that sounds stupid, but I am new to this and It has been opened before to some extent.[B)]
Jim,
I am going to stay out of this since you are getting better help than I can give you, but I will say this based on your last post about rings and "being new at this". Please don't loose any parts on this exploration... and you would have been better off not taking the engine out till after taking the nut off holding the countershaft sprocket. Good luck.
Ron Carbaugh
Thanks Ron, I got this bike after it had been disassembled. So I don't know how it should be to start with. The parts I am keeping in bags that are marked. But all your help is very welcome. Many eyes are better than two. Thanks again for your input. I hope you have more.
Jimmy
Jim,
I just realized my statement(s) may have came across harsh...this wasn't meant to be that way so please accept my apology[B)]. Sometimes after a long day I should take a deep breath and have a little more humour. Thanks for taking it the right way and I will be here to help if I can[8D].
Ron Carbaugh
Thanks Ron, I did not take it harshly at all. I get dumb questions like mine all day in my field too. I just hate asking them. So I am sorry for that.;)
I just got the manual in the mail. Now off to read it.:D
jimmy, please keep us posted. I hope to find a penton soon and will be going thru the same as you. its been 30 years since i sold my last penton. get this $350.00 and i thought i got the better of the deal. who has the last laugh, would love to find that old 1972 Berkshire. anyways i'm learning alot from your qustions. please keep it up and merry CHRISTmas.
Jim
Ok I just sprayed some brake cleaner into it. I can not beleive it. But it freed it up. It is turning like a top now.
I think this thing has been just sitting. The gunk is un-real.
Jimmy,
It's great that you have the manual. It is the single most important tool you have when rebuilding a Sachs 2 stroke.
I'm not sure if it has been mentioned earlier, but when you are ready to seperate the cases make sure you are in a clean area with some surface space. This is because there will be shims that you need to keep track of. Generally, they tend to stick to either the case or the internal part that they are compensating for.
Take extra care to note the location and quantity of the shims. Write this down, and/or make drawings. Be extra careful to not mix up the shims so you can keep the right sizes together for re-assembly.
Being overly methodical with the shims will save you untold nightmarish hours trying to work out shifting trouble, or even worse, replacing bearing races and seals that were already replaced.
There is also a paragraph in the manual about circ-clips. I believe that there are three of them internally. Two of them are OK to remove, but the third lifts the lid to Pandora's Box and releases many horrors that the world is better off without. My failing memeory, and lack of a split motor in front of me, precludes me remembering which one of the circ-clips should be left in place. I think it is the one on the shift selector.
The book is very clear on which one to not remove, and perhaps Doug W or John D. can chime in and offer more info.
Keep the questions coming, they help others as well. Between my self and my asylum partner, we have at least 3, and maybe as many as 5 (?) more Sachs to rebuild. Of course we may both be working on them in the retirement village by the time we get to all of them, but it beats finger painting and bead necklaces.
Tony