The website just received these pictures of Dave McCullough's new '68 steel tanker and we thought they would be worth posting on the message board.
Bill & Karen
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Dave,
WOW, what a find!! Just goes to show that there are still some great bikes out there.
How about we have a little "Penton Steeltanker 101" class with this bike. We are collecting data at this time for an indepth "Penton Steel Tanker" book and we are looking at every detail of these early bikes. How many "details" can you guys find on this machine that a restorer wanting to do a "perfect" restoration should make note of.
Dave, once again nice find, wanna double your money:D
Thanks
Paul Danik
Paul beat me to it, but I'll second the WOW!!
Great find.
Rocket
Dave--that is too cool.. the first odd thing i saw is the backwards and oversize air box -my aluminum airbox on the berkie has the bolt on the other side and a plug on the pipe side
rob
Thanks Paul and Rocket !! I think WOW was my first word too when I saw the bike. It sure was an very nice stroke of luck !! I really owe my buddy bigtime. Not sure exactly what I'll do with the bike at this point but am leaning toward just cleaning it up as best I can and get it running good. Might be best to leave it as much original as I can. Wish I lived a little closer and could bring it to the AMA POG meeting next month. Maybe I can have it ready for a trip to VMD this July. I'll be glad to help with the "Steeltanker Book" in any way I can so let me know if you need any more pics or data from the bike. Take care and talk to you later.
Dave McCullough
Beautiful find Dave, love those Borrani rims, they will polish up very nice. Is the airbox the long or short version of the 50cc Comet Does it go down to the bottom of the frame, it should, having both grey side covers. If you need a NOS gas cap, contact Domi Racer, also they may still have a NOS headlamp for the bike. Good Luck and great find!
Kip,
The bike does have a pretty large airbox. It extends from just short of upper shock mount to about even with the tank petcocks. It extends down to the swingarm pivot bolt. The wheels should clean up real nice. There is alot of barn dirt stuck to them but seems to wipe of easily. Might get the powerwasher out on the bike tomorrow if the weather holds. I think my biggest obstacle is going to be dealing with the left footpeg which is broken off. This frame has threaded holes for the pegs to mount whereas my 70 steeltanker has a long threaded bolt running between the two pegs. The threaded hole is gone on this one so I'll have to fabricate some sort of replacement. Will also need to find the correct rounded footpeg for the left side. I'd be happy to send you any close up pics of the airbox or anything else on the bike for you future reference. Just let me know. I'll get with Domi Racing to see what they have available for the bike. Thanks again !!
Dave McCullough
Tulsa Trail Riders
[email protected]
Per Paul's request about things to look for on this early Penton: The air box with the two side covers that has the airbox cover mounting with a bolt on the exhaust side, the long chain guard, the original shocks and the four bolt rear hub/sprocket carrier. What a great find Dave.
Ron Carbaugh
Dave, The footpeg mount replacement is easy, I cut a good one from a junk frame, weld it in place and rethread it. I may have an extra "calf jabber" footpeg for it in my inventory, I'll check.;)
Good job there brother. I guess this seals it, we're riding '68 steel tankers at the ISDTRR next year? I better get busy! Only ~275 days until we hit the trail.
Good find,
Bob McCullough
I can't tell from the photos if the exhaust stinger is original, it sort of looks like it is a larger OD than stock, but it's hard to tell. What do you guys think? I can sure remember that distinctive Ring Ding Ding that those pipes sang.
Paul
Paul,
I think it is just the angle of the picture. The mounting holes for the guard are in the correct general area. I love it when one of our guys find something like this. I think due to the area that this bike came from that it passed through Leroy Winters shop. Just my guess.
Ron Carbaugh
The stinger I am speaking of is the very end of the pipe, the narrow tube on the end, the rest of the pipe looks very original. The reason that I ask is that several members have wondered in the past what the correct length and OD of the original stinger was. Many of those long narrow stingers were replaced with VW tailpipe stingers " back in the day", the VW stinger reduced the racket made by those pipes and supposedly took some of the peakiness out of the bike.
Another hard to find item are the original fork bellows that are on that machine. Really neat!!!
Paul,
I have signed up for reading classes next week. The only original pipe I have is in South Carolina so I will see if I can get it measures and get back with....off to reading class.:)
Ron Carbaugh
Paul and Ron,
Im curious about the stinger on the pipe also for a couple of reasons. The stinger measures 7.5" in length and is a 1" diameter. The stinger weld looks pretty decent so it might be original but there is a series of small holes drilled near the end of the stinger. The holes do not appear to be stock so maybe this was someone's attempt at a homemade diffuser ?? There is also a thin 8" long brace welded horizontally between the pipe cone and stinger on the inboard side. It sort of looks like a fin on the inboard side of the pipe and comes pretty close to touching the upper shock cover. Weld on that piece looked decent too so I wasn't sure if that was original or not. I'd be glad to send you a close up picture the stinger to get your thoughs. Talk to you later.
Dave McCullough
Looks very similar to Lee Clark's V032 bike.
Dwight
Dwight Rudder
7 time ISDT / E medalist
8 time National Enduro Class Champion.
Dave,
The brace that you mention was probably added on to strenghten the stinger. I remember that when my first Penton decided to once in awhile jump onto the ground the stinger sometimes took the impact and would bend. If you can send a closeup picture of the stinger I would be glad to look at it. I have a pipe over at the farm with a partial original stinger still atached but shortened, I will measure the OD so we can compare.
Paul
Hi Dave , Nice find! I am in the collection phase for an early '68 Six Days Steel Tanker project . My frame is number is V0148 , so I'm glad to see one so close for reference.
My friend found me a cherry long air box similar to yours at a garage sale a couple of miles down the road. On the right side there is no grey cover ,but has a 50mm grey plug and a gold red and black 70mm by 50mm sticker with the Penton Family crest on it. The rest is identical . You can see the sticker on the bike on page 72 of the John Penton book. If mine is earlier or later than yours, I have no clue. Any ideas out there?
Jeff Borer
Amherst, Ohio
Dave, I measured the stinger on my berkshire (ser # v790)--
length --approx 7-1/2"
od of pipe --approx 1-1/8"
I also would think the brace is to prevent kinking-my stinger has about a 3/4" bend in it from being dropped.
thanks -rob
Hi Dave,
I'll bet the pride and joy of finding that bike will never go away, in fact it could possibly grow the longer you have it around.
Congratulations on snagging a treasure.
Paul, The "Steel tanker" book, that's awesome. Who will be the main author of that?
Have you or anyone else ever heard if there's any background, or a story behind nicknaming or labeling the first Pentons to arrive as "Mongrels".
I'm always searching for the earliest articles mentioning the first accounts or appearances of the Penton motorcycle, and what they had to say.
In a 1968 Cycleworld mag. article about the "90-Mile" endurance run, it says........"The new Penton Six Day's 125 motorcycle was of considerable interest to the eastern riders. Three of John Pentons "mongrels" were entered in the contest- and for Leroy Winters it was a winning combination." It also shows and says "Bantamweight Class A winner Leroy Winters sloshes through the mud on his new Penton Six Days 125, the new "mongrel" bike"
Of course "Mongrel" meaning that the Penton was made-up of parts by so many different suppliers. Just curious, thanks.
Also checking through old mags I've found the stinger on one of Leroy's first bikes to be larger dia. I'd say apx. 1 1/8" at least (like a VW tailpipe).
But the pictures I've found from the stock test bikes of that era definetly look smaller, more like 3/4".
Dave, I suppose guys might gossip and talk behind your back about the size of your stinger. But not me :D "thou shall not judge a man by the size of his stinger" !!
Have fun,
Bob
Just wanted to give my 2 cents on the stinger issue. I purchased a NEW Steel Tanker in 1969 from Mike Lewis in Lawton OK. It actually had a VW Tail pipe welded on as a stinger. It did have a slight baffeling effect as well. The VW tail pipes were chrome and the fitst time I went down on the RT side the black paint on the stinger came off to reveil the chrome VW stinger. I didn't know until that time that it was really a VW stinger.
Donny Smith
Hi All,
Thanks for all the feedback so far. After exchanging emails with Paul, he has me convinced that it would be best to leave this bike as original as possible. I'll need to do a little work in order to prevent any farther deterioration of the gas tank and exhaust. Anybody have any suggestions on how best to preserve the tank without damaging the paint ?? Will probably have to sand and paint the exhaust to prevent anymore rust but I'm open to suggestions there too. I plan to recover the seat to make the bike rideable but don't think that will affect the bike's overall appearance. Paul mentioned that these early bikes came with a narrow front fender bracket and a narrow front fender. Anyone have some used ones that they would like to part with ?? I'll also will be needing a used original rear fender and some used metal number plates. Thanks again for all the help.
Dave McCullough
P.S. Oh yea, by the way Bob, I've been told it's not the size of your stinger but how you use it that counts. :D:D
Dave,
I am leaving right now to go and pick a bike up in Oklahoma. If you get a chance tomorrow give me a call on the tank and to discuss some of the parts you need. Cell:832.722.0408
Ron Carbaugh
What year did the gas caps change?? My 70 steel tanker has a little lever you flip over to open the cap, but the tank didn't come with the bike. Dave, yours looks like a screw type cap,
Nice find never the less !!
Raymond
Down East Pentons
Raymond,
You are correct on the gas cap. My bike has a screw on type cap. I think this was a feature of the 68 models only but maybe someone with more knowledge can shed some light on this. The tank also does not have the toolbag mounting nuts between the cap and seat. Think the toolbag mount nuts came on the later model steeltankers. Did anyone notice the oval shaped magura throttle tube ?? Might be a little hard to see in the pictures.
Dave McCullough
Dave,
Send me a email. I think I have located a left side foot peg. Include you numbers where you can be reached tomorrow. Still looking for the front fender bracket.
Ron Carbaugh
Dave,
Forgot to add that it does have the hanger..........you are living right.[^]
Ron Carbaugh
Dave,
Those oval throttles were great on the early machines, actually I wish they would have kept putting them on the later bikes. Many a time in a muddy harescrambles after falling in a muck filled area on the throttle side that oval throttle was a life saver, my wrist is starting to hurt right now as I remember trying to hold onto and twist the later throttles that were caked with mud:D
No one has mentioned the small bracket that extends from the frame right below where the twin downtubes attach to the top of the frame, it is easily seen in the picture that shows your serial number. I believe that is for a steering dampener.
I have a question about the large chrome nut that is on the top triple tree, are there threads in the center hole or is it just a hole. I have seen these in three different styles, ones with just a hole with no threads that a steering dampener rod could go down through, some with no hole at all, and the later ones that start to show up in parts book 003 have a threadded hole so a 8mm bolt can be attached to it for holding your enduro equipment in place.
One final question, the black chain block that is located on the lower part of the chain guard, does it say Penton on it? You might need to really get close and wipe it clean to see it.
Sorry to ask so many questions but there are a lot of interesting details on the early Pentons that make them quite unique.
Paul
Paul,
The dampeners come up on ebay from time to time:). They were especially great for road racing.
Ron Carbaugh
Paul,
I can see where the oval throttle grip would come in real handy if the going gets rough. I think the original grip on my Penton Wassell was an oval style also. The Wassell did not have the oval shaped throttle tube though. It was only the grip itself that was oval shaped. Have any idea where I can get a some grips to fit the oval throttle tube ?? I think your exactly right about the bracket below the steering head being used for a steering dampener. My bike has a non-threaded hole in the chrome nut on the top triple clamp so maybe it's possible that this bike was originally equipped with one. Think it would be pretty easy to install one with the shaft running down through the hole and then attaching to the frame bracket. Went out and took a good look at the chainguard guide block also. I can't see any Penton markings on it but it's very dirty. I'll take a better look when I disassemble the bike to clean it up. Keep the questions coming because I don't mind at all. I've learned alot from all the feedback so far and hope other have too. Talk to you later.
Dave McCullough
Paul, Correct on the steering damper bracket (check out Al Borns bike). Add one more type of steering stem nut on your list, the damper model with center hole and outer notches or dimples in it for the damper knob spring to lock into. I had the black "Penton" chain blocks repoped, just waiting on some to be made (Thanks to Bob W for the use of his original) You can get all the Ceriani Damper stuff from Domi NOS.;)
Kip,
After your post I went out to take another look and my bike does have the dimples in the steering stem nut. There are 6 dimples which are approx 1/16" in diameter. Never would have guessed that's what they were for. Thanks !!
Dave McCullough
Dave,
The grips for that throttle are shaped no different than any other, Al Buehner ought to have some of the "correct" style in stock. I have my own way of putting grips on that involves a "flamable liquid" that makes the grip very plyable and slippery. If you want the details send me an email.
I would suggest that if you recover the seat that you take great pains to retain the seat riviots or use them to find exact copies.
One other thought, whenever I haul a machine that has the old fork bellows on it I loosen the lower clamps and try to carefully losen the bottom of the bellows before straping the bike down, this lets the forks pull down without putting excess pressure on those rare and sometimes brittle old parts. Just my 2 cents worth.
Kip, thanks for the addition to the chrome nuts section of Penton 101:D
Man ain't this fun:)
Paul
More cool pics...here is Ron Carbaugh's original, unrestored 1970 Steel Tanker. This bike is a total knockout! :)
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WOW! Great job. I hope my 72 looks 1/2 that good when I'm done. [:p]
Rod Whitman
Beautiful Bike!
Lew Mayer
I'm happy to see Louk's old bike found a new home in our group. It's original beauty and charm still shines. You can't recreate that once it's lost, and you can't do any better than to find a machine in that condition. Congratulations!! Ron.
Lew & Rob,
Thanks guys, as you know I have worked on this for quite a while and am somewhat doing what you talked about Rob and that is keeping it in the group. I hope everyone enjoys it and we will be able to recreate the bikes being built in the future with bikes like this as a pattern. I am blessed to have the opportunity to own such a bike.
Ron Carbaugh
Dave,
On to another subject your footpeg is in the mail to you.
Ron Carbaugh
It's beautiful Ron. You are correct that these types of survivors are critical examples from which work can be patterned after.
On a different note, who else has a mental image of Ron laying on the ground trying to get the best angle for the picture of the under side of the engine?
Great shot Ron!
Tony
Tony,
I would like to take credit for the pictures, but the original owner took these. Don't tell anybody about our Texas Penton swap meet Mr, Smith.....................[:0].
Ron Carbaugh
Ron,
Congrats !! That bike sure is a beauty !! Last owner must have had some tremendous will power because it's hard to belive that someone wouldn't want to ride such a great looking machine !!
Dave McCullough
P.S. Thanks again for the footpeg !!
Quotequote:Originally posted by firstturn
Tony,
I would like to take credit for the pictures, but the original owner took these. Don't tell anybody about our Texas Penton swap meet Mr, Smith.....................[:0].
Ron Carbaugh
I can neither confirm nor deny anything about an "alleged" swap meet that might feature Pentons and parts as a feature item that may or not happen in Tex...errr, Iowa.. I mean, who would come?
Agent Smith
Tony, Ron,
Are the rumors true that a few of the military cranks and a set of the stuffed , reshaped cases will be on hand? You know the ones that use the cranks rotation to cram the charge up the transfers? Inquireing minds want to know ! chuckle chuckle. That would be worth a 1200 mile trip for me * GRIN *!
John D.
John,
There might be some surplus F-4 Phantom engines turn up, lol.
Tony
Paul,
Thanks !! Your advise on the fork bellows and seat rivets are very good points. I'll be sure to try and protect the bellows when tying the bike down. The lady that has been recovering seats for me is pretty good. I'll have to see if she can get some rivets to match the originals. I'll also ask her if it would be possible to just make and sew in a new rear panel since that's where most of the damage is. I'm going to have to weld up several cracks in the seat pan before she can do anything though. Since my last post, I've got the gas tank cleaned up inside and out. Tank looks pretty darn good and is very solid. I've also got the bike stripped down to basically the bare frame with just the wheels and forks. Got the front wheel, triple clamps, handlebars and forks cleaned up as well. I've also started the repair on the broken left footpeg mount and am going this afternoon to talk with a guy about fabricating a few parts that I'll need to do the repair. If all goes well, it should not be too big a headache. Thanks to Ron Carbaugh and Jeff Borer for the parts and pictures I needed to get the footpeg repair started.
Dave McCullough
P.S. What kind of "flammable liquid" do you use for the grips ?? I've been using Gumout and it seems to work good. I'm always open to suggestions though.
Dave,
I use Electro Clean. It evaporates fassst. Sounds like you are having fun.
Ron Carbaugh