Penton Owners Group

General Discussion => Penton Talk => Topic started by: tmc3c on January 24, 2005, 07:09:07 AM

Title: Spark Plugs
Post by: tmc3c on January 24, 2005, 07:09:07 AM
Let's debate the spark plug brands. I am running a NGK but didn't Pentons come with Bosch plugs from the factory? How about Champion Gold Paladium?

Thomas Carmichael
Title: Spark Plugs
Post by: Larry Perkins on January 24, 2005, 07:43:57 AM
The Bosch plugs came with the Penton bikes but I was never fond of them.  I think they fouled easier than the NGK and they were higher priced where I live.  

I believe the NGK spark plugs are the best when you consider all factors.  They are inexpensive and last a long time.  They are pretty hard to foul also.  I run them exclusively in my Vintage, Post-Vintage, and Modern bikes.  

On the Pentons we use a B8HS or B8HV in the 100 and 125.  If I were slow trail riding one of these I would even consider a 7.  On the 175 and 250 we have run a B8HS or B8HV for cross-country and a B9HS or B9HV for MX.  For either conditions I think the 9 range is the right one for the 400.

My two cents worth from my experience.

Larry P
Title: Spark Plugs
Post by: TGTech on January 24, 2005, 10:52:48 AM
First off, I wouldn't us a Champion, unless it were the last plug on earth. Back when I was riding motorcycles equipped with Motoplat ignitions, the Champion people gave us a bunch of product to use, and I gave them an honest try. To this day, those are the only spark plug that I "feared" regarding fouling. When questioned about the problem, I learned a couple of things, that ruled them out for Motoplat ignitions.

When I told the rep that I had experienced some problems, he asked me if I tested the plugs, before I actually put them into use. That question nearly knocked me off my feet. I asked him what he meant by that, and he said that all the drag racers, and stock car guys never just put a plug in an engine without testing them. I told him that in all the years that I'd been riding, I'd never "tested" a new Bosch plug before depending on it and could never remember actually fouling one of them.

The next thing that I learned, an probably more pertinent, was that the Motoplat ignitions at the time (prior to '81, I think) actually had a reverse polarity from all of the Japanese ignitions. This, for some reason, was the reason that the Champions wouldn't work well with that generation of Motoplat ignitions.

After my brief experience with the Champions, I went back to the Bosch plugs until I got into the Kawasaki thing at the end of '79. We (Jack and I) then had an arrangement with ND and used their plugs for the next two years, with success. After that, I've been using NGK's ever since, mostly because I have the right connections.

Our recommendations for spark plugs for the PVL ignitions, is to use the V, VX, or IX series plugs. The reason is that they use less energy to make the spark, thus leaving more energy in the spark itself. Unless you are running an ignition or other device that has a microprocessor in it, you don't need to use a resistor type plug or cap. If there IS a digital device on the machine, then you have to use a resistor some place in the spark path.

The reason for this is that when a spark occurs at the plug tip, a RFI (radio frequency interference) wave is generated at the plug tip, and then radiates back up the current path. When this wave passes over anything with digital control, it disrupts the program in the device, thus screwing it all up.

By using a resistor plug or cap, you dampen this wave, thus protecting the device from the RFI.

In theory, it is best to dampen this wave as close to its occurance as possible, which would mean at the spark plug. The problem there, is that you don't always know what the resistor value of the spark plug is, where as the caps nearly all have their value printed on the cap. Most of the resistor type spark plug caps out there, are 5K, but there are others.

PVL recommends using a 5K Ohm spark plug cap as opposed to a resistor spark plug. Of course, they want you to be using their own spark plug cap, which costs about three times as much as an NGK cap.

Either way, whenever you put a resistor in the spark path, you do use of some of the energy of the ignition. It is always best to have as much energy in your ignition as possible, so the less resistance you can get away with, the better.

Dane
Title: Spark Plugs
Post by: Kip Kern on January 24, 2005, 12:05:11 PM
I agree with Dane, I wouldn't use a Champion in a weed trimmer.  Bosch W3AC or W3AS if you want to spend a little extra for Silver.  NGK gets 2nd place or ND.  Just my thoughts[:o)]
Title: Spark Plugs
Post by: tmc3c on January 24, 2005, 04:41:28 PM
Thank You Guys for your input on this !!

Dane, I have the MZ-B ignition that I bought from you and it has the spark plug cap that came with it.The reason I was asking about this question is that I am just looking for that little extra. Thank you for your knowledge on this subject !!

Thomas Carmichael
Title: Spark Plugs
Post by: dkwkid on January 24, 2005, 04:50:43 PM
I have had good luck with NGK plugs over thr years.They are cheap,available darn near everywhere, and their quality is consistent.
I never cared for Champion plugs-if you look at one the electrode is off center sometimes and even the side electrode is off!Poor Q.C. in my opinion.
 One thing alot of people miss is the plug gap. .016-.020 for the Motoplat(ala Husky).Most plugs come .024-.028 out of the box so the gap should be checked before installation.
 One word about the older motoplats-I believe the use of the kill button killed many of the ignitions.There was a Zener diode in the stator used as a voltage rectifier and the current surges created by grounding with a kill button ruined them.Purely speculation on my part but my brother was leading his class(100cc) in the 73 Barstow to Vegas on his DKW when he stopped at State Line for fuel(3rd Gas stop).He killed the motor with the kill button and that was it!No spark,no finish for him.
 There is an old wifes tale about kicking over a motoplat without the sparkplug but I never had the guts to try it.
Title: Spark Plugs
Post by: tmc3c on January 25, 2005, 06:37:52 AM
Dane, Is the v,vx,ix series in Bosch or NGK ? I am running a B8HS NGK now.Thank You for your time and wisdom.

Thomas Carmichael
Title: Spark Plugs
Post by: TGTech on January 25, 2005, 12:16:32 PM
Thomas,

   Those are NGK designations. The H series are short reach and the E series are long reach.

Dane
Title: Spark Plugs
Post by: tmc3c on January 25, 2005, 01:13:37 PM
Thanks, Dane !

Thomas Carmichael
Title: Spark Plugs
Post by: tmc3c on January 25, 2005, 05:22:12 PM
One more question Dane and I will leave you alone. I bought a NGK IRIDIUM BR8EIX for $10.50 and I want to know the correct gap for this plug.I tried for Bosch but no luck. Thanks Again

Thomas Carmichael
Title: Spark Plugs
Post by: TGTech on January 25, 2005, 09:14:40 PM
The gap for all of the machines up to 250's, should be set at .025-.028".  For the 250 and 400's, I'd set the gap from .022-.024".
If the compression of the engines has been lowered, then you can up the setting to the same setting as the big engines.

Dane
Title: Spark Plugs
Post by: dkwkid on January 25, 2005, 11:47:33 PM
O.K. guys. I held out my hand and had my son slap it for all the poggers out here!Bosch point gap=.016 although I did run .020 on the motoplat on my Husky.[B)]
Title: Spark Plugs
Post by: tmc3c on January 26, 2005, 07:05:17 AM
Thanks Again Dane !!

Thomas Carmichael
Title: Spark Plugs
Post by: Rain Man on January 30, 2005, 05:48:38 PM
Dane,  The information you have given us is supurb !!   You just answered quite a few of my questions I had relative to the motosplat ignition.  I've always seen the reverse polarity effect with the british POS ground, but never could figure out why it  worked with  just a magneto or the motoplat.
   And the Champions, I got hundreds of them lying around the Maine woods here!  They don't work well in American snowmonbiles either !!
Thanks again for that tid bit on "electrical stuff"  :)

Raymond
 Down East Pentons