Were there any 5a engines with the big finned cyl and head? When was the change over?
I am pretty sure the engine on my steel tanker is a 5A and it has the big fins. I will double check and post the serial number if you are interested.
Richard
Yes the first Alloy cylinder engines were still 5A and stayed 5A even after upgrading to the larger shifting improvement, (MAinshaft, selector rod and key, larger main shaft case bearing, selector arm and shift assy. The parts book gives the engine numbers, the new improved larger shift modification started at engine #6318/755 for the 125 and engine # 5692 843 for the 100cc
Have fun.
Doug,
Friggin amazing - Can you start putting this stuff on CD or DVD in case you are alien abducted or something?
TB
Tom,
We were thinking about moving him to Texas which would be just about the same scenero.[:o)]
Ron Carbaugh
If this storm we are having right now in Minnesota (6-10 inches snow):(hits the Ohio River valley it may be a pretty easy abduction.
Tom's right Doug. I'd be willing to bet my steel tanker that you didn't even have to reference anything except your memory to teach us that golden morsel.
Peter Kane
V3442
Plainville, Massachusetts
[email protected]
Were there any 5A engines in the late 71/ early 72 fiberglass models?
TOM; NOOOO! But maybe a few 5/B ;) I will take that back after a little thought, the late 5/A may have trickled into 71 models. Again, it was an upgrade that happened. That is why the Steel Tank Questioaire needs filled out and sent in. The more questionaires that get returned the better our chances of putting a more accurate story on what, when and where for the Steel Tankers.
Thanks to all of you Steel Tank Owners for helping with the book.
Doug,
Tom is just trying to make it possible for you to keep his engines up to peak performance where it is warmer.[:p]
Ted,
That is a difficult question since you can change the engine type(by sight) by changing the ignition side cover. I just don't ever remember working on any 5a's that were in a fiberglass tank bike unless I put them in for a person that had wasted their 5/6B. I hope this helps.
Ron Carbaugh
Ok Ron, then what was the difference between 5A and 5B
One big difference is the 5"B" was never used by Penton as a production engine. The 5/B was used by Hercules in a Military model. Penton (Sachs) engines started with the 5/A, then the 6/A then the 6/B then the 6/D which was a 6/B with the "D" cylinder and head, the"D" cylinder had an intake manifold which used a 30mm Bing and better porting. There are a few 5/B engines in this country thatI built. It may be that there are some DKWs in the states with the 5/B. The major change from the 6/A to the 6/B is the cases were recast to accomodate the smaller wider crankshaft. When they did the B cases they also cast in larger transfer ports and these protrude over the crank slabs on each side.
Ron,
According to Ted Penton's article in the August, 1972 Keep'em Winning, which was a newsletter to Penton dealers only, starting with the "B" engines the front motor mount bolt was increased to 10mm from 8 mm. We have yet to find any engines yet that didn't follow that rule, so no matter what the side cover says, a glance at the front motor mount bolt should tell you if you have an "A" engine 8mm, or "B" and later models 10mm. Of course in the 30 some years since the change occured, someone, somewhere, has probably drilled out the front mounting hole on a set of "A" cases.:D
Paul
Were there any 5A engines in the late 71/ early 72 fiberglass models?
TOM; NOOOO! But maybe a few 5/B ;) I will take that back after a little thought, the late 5/A may have trickled into 71 models. Again, it was an upgrade that happened. That is why the Steel Tank Questioaire needs filled out and sent in. The more questionaires that get returned the better our chances of putting a more accurate story on what, when and where for the Steel Tankers.
Thanks to all of you Steel Tank Owners for helping with the book.
Doug,
Tom is just trying to make it possible for you to keep his engines up to peak performance where it is warmer.[:p]
Ted,
That is a difficult question since you can change the engine type(by sight) by changing the ignition side cover. I just don't ever remember working on any 5a's that were in a fiberglass tank bike unless I put them in for a person that had wasted their 5/6B. I hope this helps.
Ron Carbaugh
Ok Ron, then what was the difference between 5A and 5B
One big difference is the 5"B" was never used by Penton as a production engine. The 5/B was used by Hercules in a Military model. Penton (Sachs) engines started with the 5/A, then the 6/A then the 6/B then the 6/D which was a 6/B with the "D" cylinder and head, the"D" cylinder had an intake manifold which used a 30mm Bing and better porting. There are a few 5/B engines in this country thatI built. It may be that there are some DKWs in the states with the 5/B. The major change from the 6/A to the 6/B is the cases were recast to accomodate the smaller wider crankshaft. When they did the B cases they also cast in larger transfer ports and these protrude over the crank slabs on each side.
Ron,
According to Ted Penton's article in the August, 1972 Keep'em Winning, which was a newsletter to Penton dealers only, starting with the "B" engines the front motor mount bolt was increased to 10mm from 8 mm. We have yet to find any engines yet that didn't follow that rule, so no matter what the side cover says, a glance at the front motor mount bolt should tell you if you have an "A" engine 8mm, or "B" and later models 10mm. Of course in the 30 some years since the change occured, someone, somewhere, has probably drilled out the front mounting hole on a set of "A" cases.:D
Paul
Paul,
Are you kidding someone would make a change to a Sachs engine? Well it is back to the drawing board;).
Ron Carbaugh
Just to add a little more info to this disscussion. I recently acquired a CMF Six Day with with a 5A motor or so it states on the cover. The frame number is 10650167 which if I understand the frame numbers would make it an early CMF bike. It also has the Bosch ignition and the brake and clutch levers are the early type with the finger bumps. I think it is a low hour bike since the orginal fenders are still in good shape so possibly has the orginal motor in it. I will have to check the serial numbers on the motor don't know those. Walt
Hi all,
I recently picked up a CMF frame bike with same serial # range as chkitout. Although the engine was in a box,it too has a 125/5A bosch ignition engine and seller assured me that it was the original engine. Guess my question is the same as the earlier one. Is it possible for a 5A engine to come in the CMF bikes ??
Thanks !!
Dave McCullough
I also owned a 72 with frame number in that range with a 5A motor. That bike is now in MI I think.
Donny Smith
From the looks of the information that is coming in. The early 72 CMF bikes still had the 5A engine. That would make the 72 CMF having three different engines, 5A, 6A, and 6B. I didn't think this was the case. Thanks to Paul making us awaire of the article in the August 1972 issue of the Penton newsletter, "Keeping Track" that Ted Penton wrote about drilling out the front engine mounts on the 72 frame to fit the "B" engine is proof enough that the "B" engine was introduced in 72.
chkitout
All research so far has concluded that when the KTM assembly line started production of the CMF machines they started with either serial number 50000 or 50001. Your bike's serial number of 50167 is so far the earliest CMF Penton on record. The previous lowest number was 50190, both your bike and 50190 were built in June of 1971. Untill we find frame # 50000 we will have to wonder if KTM started with #50000 or #50001, or till some factory production records show up.
Thank you very much for taking the time to supply us with your Penton's serial number. This is why we need the serial numbers even from bare frames as they help to put the puzzle together. Thanks also to you guys who have been filling out the Steel Tanker questionaire and if you haven't yet filled one out for each of your steel tank Penton's please do so as we hope to gather as much information as possible about those machines for the Steel Tanker book.
Thanks
Paul