Penton Owners Group

Just visited the Racing Forum, and under it was a comment by BigMac regarding pipes. I am pretty sure that Andy has made the jig for 76 MC5 pipes in both 400 and 250 cc versions, I have one of each. He was not able to reproduce the twin spring end cap/ silencer due to production costs. His silencer is a very simple cone/endcap which is re-packable. I am also to understand that at one time, Glenn Sontag sent a 74/75 Mint 400 pipe to Andy for reproduction, but I have not seen the pipe, if anyone out-here has one, please comment on the outcome. My experience with Andy? Seems willing to help..Thanks, Tom Brosius

Calling Tim Hamilton! If you should happen upon this post, just got a call from Dan Moen @ Elite Motorsports in Loveland Colorado, says you have a mint 400 with a special pipe, and so some questions for you, Tom....

Just another interesting tidbit about pipes. 1= Tim Hamilton's pipe made was for a 1980 250 by Circle F. 2= does Andy @ ACE really have a Mint 400 jig? (tbd)

3rd., but not the least, wish list for X-mas 2005. Find a vendor, willing to spend some time with us! Perhaps donor pipes to be sent, by willing volunteers, shipping expenses to be paid by POG members treasury. We have come so far! We have a ways yet to-go. I would surely give up 20.00 of my own funds to start this process. Remember this, the greatest strengths of POG, are the members themselves!
GN, Tom Brosius

I agree with Tom. There are so many parts that we could have fabricated that still are not available. I work with several large machine shops that could easily turn anything steel on the bike. Some real hard items that would be easy for most shops:

74-77 style speedometer mount
72-73 style speedometer mount
Center stands for KTM motor models, why only Sachs
Chain Adjusters
If we could get a plastic manufacturer to work with us those darn Magura ISDT Covers and Star Adjusters that are going for like $400 on Ebay, we should be able to get those made for 30 bucks a set or less.

I know Al tries hard to keep many other reproduction parts in stock but can always do it. I was lucky to get the last center stand a few weeks ago.

I can design and create fabrication drawings in CAD for any part on any Penton if I have a sample to measure, I have a fairly trick coordinate measuring machine at work we use to do just that. I would be willing to commit the time and some money as well to make it easier to get repro parts for all of us.

First thing I would like to see repro is clutch activators. I would be willing to help with some money. I have a torque pipe that some people would like to have. Lets get the ball a rollin. Just my to cents. Gary:D:D:D

Count me in to help get some decent pipes. Used ones bring a mint and are still 30 years old.

Dennis Jones

regarding whether ace pipes has a jig for a 400 mint. the answer is yes. i bought an ace pipe for one of my 400's and i love it. it looks good, fits perfect and is repackable. i highly recommend them. however it does not look like the penton pipes if you are looking for a correct restoration. they are true race pipes that work.
[8D]     chicago jerry

Here's another idea.  How tough would it be to get the long allen-head swingarm attach bolt for the KTM motored bikes?  How about the tubes that the needle bearings ride on?  There is some sort of hardening or treatment involved, isn't there?  These seem to be next to impossible to get and when you find one, they tend to be fairly well abused.  Chakka, any thoughts?

  Mike Husted

Ok, cool guys, looks as tho we have some ideas. I think we should set some priorities. Re: pipes, it sounds as tho there is a real need, some pipes will prove difficult to repro (250 HS) due to the chrome endcap. Some pipes have a more simpler construction that can be repo'd. Al has done a tremendous job, but maybe we can help in the process. First, is there a "motion" in front of the POG board to help us out with shipping? If someone would take the lead, I will second. If we start with just one pipe, and it turns a sucess, then we can and should proceed.
Thanks, Tom Brosius :)

Thanks guys, I forgot the clutch activator! Thats another piece that's getting scarce. I am sure there is a larger list...we should start an area on this web site where the requests and source parts can be listed..Kind of put people/parts together.

Mike, on the bushing question & bearings...we just hired an ex-timken guy into my engineering group. He already has looked at a few of the bearings from my Pentons and got me new ones. He is a great asset and could easly cross reference all the bearings & seals on the bike. I have a sample of the bushing & I can reverse engineer it and have one of my guys recommend the proper hardness based on use. Same with the swing arm bolt. I actually have both of those from a GS frame Tom just sent me.

Chakka

I think 3 racing pipes would cover a wide range of bikes.
1 - a pipe to fit CMF 100s and 125s

2 - a pipe to fit  CMF 175 - 400 ( I know someone can tell me why you shouldn't use one pipe for all sizes but I switch them around with sucsess )

3 - a pipe for 79 models ( aka Torque Pipe, Snake Pipe, Snail Pipe, ect. This pipe will fit MC5s and 77 - 80 GS bikes

Dennis Jones

First off, A Very Happy ThanksGiving.
Second, there is doorway, for pipes.
Just a few emails, and two phone calls, have produced a vendor that cares, his name is Kevin @ Circle F, his # is 713-4671488

I have two requests:
Do not besiege him with frivilous requests, we have incumbent responsibilites in the matter. He has a genuine ability to cover most, but not our mistakes! Collectively, we are a strong group, that always "finds" a way.
In my previous posts, I proposed a "motion" to have POG membership pay for some shipping, well guess what, Kevin will build a replacement pipe for a donor, and so therefore comes, a vendor willing to do..

Pipe dreams, yes they live!

Second, gather as much information you have about your pipes.
He is undertaking the following:
73/74 250 and 400 HS pipes not with the chrome endcap
76 MC5 250 and 400 with symetrical silencer
Kenny Roberts Flat-trak pipe

He has also rebuilt and refabed some of Kip Kerns ST pipes, if there is anyone within our group that can share some info re: ST pipes, I believe it is him.

There is a doorway, it is ours, for sure. I will be sending one of my pipes to him, 74.5 Jackpiner, sans endcap.
Keep well my POG friends, and watch ur topnot....

Happy Thanksgiving [^]
Tom Brosius

I will donate a 78 torgue pipe that will fit a 175, I know it fits 77 to 1980 bikes. If there is a need for a 250 torque pipe I will send one of those.I will pay the frieght both ways if there is a need for these pipes. Let us know if you want one of these. Tom do you know what price they will sell for? Thanks Tom for getting all this started. Gary

What about a '70 Steeltanker pipe?  Any demand for that besides me?

Larry Seale
I choose to ride

Kevin is a real craftsman with over 30 years experience in building pipes.  He is easy to work with and builds some beautiful pipes.

Ron Carbaugh

Way to go Tom, you da man! I will take a 74 1/2 175 pipe when they are ready [:p]
If you are a racer the pipes Gary has are the ones to run on your Historic or GP  racer. I could use one of these also. I think Teddy runs them on everything.

Dennis Jones

Regarding Ace Pipes, how do you get ahold of them so I can get my hands on a pipe for my 75 Mint 400?
                Thanks. Stork

Andy's contact #'s are listed under Suppliers at the beginning of our home page. Adios, Tom...

Hi guys! Maybe a good time to stop and recon. So its looks as tho between two vendors, there are pipes on the completed list. I think we can differentiate between "racing" vs "restore" with R as a designator for racing and RST for restoration quality.

Of the list that I have for completed pipes:
125cc 6Days R from T. Everett (Circle F)
73/74 mint 400 R from G. Sontag? (ACE)
76 MC5 in 250 and 400 R from T. Brosius (ACE)
80/81 250 R from T. Hamilton (Circle F)

In the Q:
73/74.5 Jackpine RST from T.Brosius (Circle F) *1 notes below
78 Torque (snake) 175cc R/RST from G.Ellis (Circle F)
7? Torque (snake) 250cc R/RST from G.Ellis (Circle F)
KR Flatraker pipe R (Circle F)(Kevin has a contact for one)

Wish list:
All ST pipes RST (Circle F) *2 notes below
GS pipes for 77 frames (Circle F)*3 notes below

First sub-note, the 175cc pipes appear to be shrouded with extra sheet metal to incorporate the special endcap assly, parts from Al as he has done so much legwork, what remains to see, is if Kevin can replicate an inner pipe that could use the shrouds/endcap from Al.

second sub-note, could use some help in identifying ST pipes from shrouded vs non-shrouded to determine future activity, no shrouds available?

third sub-note, 77 GS frames require a longer tail section due to the length of the rear stay

This is only a start, yet I think we are on a sucessfull path..

Thanks for the help!  Tom Brosius

Thank YOU, Tom.

Lew Mayer

Thanks for the legwork, Tom.

  Mike H.
  [email protected]

Tom, I could be wrong but I believe Al is out of the weld on exhaust shrouds and will not have anymore.
A regular torgue pipe will work on a 77 GS6 frame by fabricating a new bolt on rear mount. That is what I am running on mine.
Thanks for your efforts, the Circle F race pipes for the other brands on their website look awsome.

Dennis Jones

For what it is worth, I sent the Carl Crank "speed pipe" specs to Eric Cooke at Pro Form Racing, (909) 947-1121, and he built one for Fred Hunter in Kansas City, (816) 587-3019. Fred has not put it on the bike yet so we don't know if it is as awesome as the  Carl Cranke speed pipe I have on my 1973 Hare Scrambler. Add Pro Form to your list.

Teddy

Good point Teddy! Dennis is correct, Al is not reproducing the sheet metal shrouds (Piner) any more (bummer). Tom Brosius

Hello Poggers! Greetings from snowy Denver. Just a bit of information re: ACE pipes, I have one of Andy's MC5 250 pipes that does fit the 76 MC5 frame, since there is an interest in 77GS pipes (Hi-breather frame) I yanked one out from the shed and set a carcass 250 motor in the frame, to my surprise, the MC5 does fit the longer GS frame. The front tab on the downtube is slightly higher than the tab on the pipe, but it does line up vertically, the rear of the pipe does extend approx 3 in. beyond the rear frame tab on the GS frame, so a simple ring clamp would prolly work...I have some pics in the link below, if you order a pipe from Andy, you could request that the front tab be made a little longer to mate with the iso mount, and remove the rear MC5 tab altogether, or omit both tabs and build the front one yourself, anyway just some more pipe dreams from Denver. Have a great w/e...Tom
http://cone.viawest.net/users/dkwracer/pipes/

Hi Larry Seale ,  I would be interested in a 1971 pipe for my ST anker. Maybe the 70 and 71 are the same ( don,t really know for sure) Tried Andy@ Ace and Circle "F" with no help a while ago. let me know  Don Howard   [email protected]    thanks

Are the 73-74.5 pipes for 175 Jackpiner's from Circle F availible yet?

Chakka

Tom,

I cannot get open your site.  http://cone.viawest.net/users/dkwracer/pipes/
Is the address correct?

Thanks,

Tony

Whoaa...someone's made the '73 Cranke spec speed pipe for 250 HS? That should be the hot ticket! Plus the '73 had funky mounts unlike later 250s. Thanks for the tip Ted. The word from pro racers in '74 was that the Cranke pipe and tuning on the HS created a hole-shot king that beat even the hot Euro racers back then.

I put a call out to Eric Cooke to inquire, but his voicemail is full, will try again later. Also called into Fred Hunter to if he tested it yet, but # is disconnected. Ted, if you hear it makes for a firebreather as is hoped, can you let all know?

Few people know this, but pre-Penton days, Carl was a CZ racer and tuner, and was Brad Lackey's mechanic in '72 making his CZs the fastest MXers in the USA. I believe he knew his stuff.

I'm still in the market for a spark-arrested after-market pipe (or one to which a S.A. can be added) for my '75 250. I've left a bazillion voice mails (well, maybe three) for ACE with no reply as yet. I don't care about the chrome end cap cuz' I'm doing a rider, not a resto. My stocker isn't that bad but I'd still like a nicer one. HELP[:0]

Keithuu

Big Mac,
 I think Fred has passed on. Here is a posting form the Vinduro Group from last week.

 
  Some of you "old-timers" on Vinduro remember Fred "Burma Wolf" Hunter,
who always signed off his posts with one of the old Burma Shave
jingles...I think he must have had 100s of them since I never saw the
same one twice.
Fred passed away a few days ago here in the Kansas City area.  He
evidently suffered heart failure in his sleep and went peacefully.  He
had not been active in Vinduro or the local MOVMX scene much in the
past couple of years, but still attended the HoAME club meetings here
and was at their Feb 14th meeting.  Fred was a technical writer (and
mechanical whiz) for some of the companies that put out the Clymer-
style repair manuals, as well as other technical publications.
Godspeed, Burma Wolf.
Jeff-neu

 Its sad news,
 John D.

Very sorry to hear about Fred Hunter. I knew his name only through Ted's post, but I would expect Ted and others in the area of MOVMX probably knew him well.

I am tracking down the availability of a Cranke-spec pipe via Pro Form Racing/Maico's Only and will advise if I can get any details. Also will post feedback if I can get one to try and compare.

Mac