Sorry, I posted this on the wrong format and moved it here.
I just picked up a fixer-upper which has a MX6 250 decal on the RH side panel. Is this the right designation for this bike or was the decal added long ago before the most recent owner? I am assuming the MX6 designation was the same as MC5 but denoting the bike came set up with the 6 speed operational. I just happen to have a complete airbox with cage and retainers, but will need a LH side panel. The engine has good compression and after repainting the frame and loosening up all of the cables, I should have it up and running in the spring along with my 1980 250 MX, just in time for fun time weather! Here is the listing: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=4594522182&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT Thanks in advance for any info on this model.
Michael R. Winter
1974 250 Harescrambler
1977 250 MC5 Project
1978 250 MX6
1979 250 KTM Project
1980 250 MX KTM
Michael,
From what I know, '77 was the last year for 2 separate frame designs for the MC5 (mx, 5-speed, but many including two I own came as 6 speeds when they were new anyway) and GS6 (enduro, 6-speed). So I believe the only differences in MX vs Enduro KTMs in 1978 would have been addition of lights and tank size. Not sure if any bikes were marketed as "GS" in '78, but then again, I've never seen anything labled with "MX6" sticker either. I did see a bike article in a dirt mag on the "MC6" so who knows?
I still call my 6-speed '77 400 an "MC5" as it was originally labeled, fyi. Skip Miller can make you up new stickers custom and you can call what you want without much argument from anyone. Nice project and looks like a great price!
No one else that I have talked to has ever hear of a MX6, so I sent an order to Tom Brosius for MC5 side panel decals, and I have a correct small white MC5 tank for the bike that I plan to repaint and put new decals on. I am still needing an original LH 1978 side panel and some of the rubber grommets with the metal inserts if anyone has some to spare. I may have to improvise on them and order a pair of repro panels from Tom if I can't find a LH original. Once I repaint the frame, install the correct airbox, and touch up the engine this Winter, it should turn out quite nicely. Thanks! P.S. this bike still has the original rubber grommet that surrounds the "u" shaped bracket above the front of the fuel tank in nice shape. Has anyone ever had them made, or would they like to have it as a model to reproduce, as long as I eventually got a replacement or two? Thanks!
Michael R. Winter
1974 250 Harescrambler
1977 250 MC5 Project
1978 250 MX6
1979 250 KTM Project
1980 250 MX KTM
Michael, a couple of tips to help, re: grommets, you may be able to fashion some by using an electrical thru the wall grommet and a steel ferule from a hardware store cut to size. As far as the tank holdown grommet, I was lucky and found two from "Donny" in Calif., I don't know if he has anymore, keep us posted on your progress...Thanks, Tom Brosius
Lots of rubber doo-dads and bits available at //www.ozktm.com too!
Big Mac- I didn't know there was some question over the "GS" designation, but if it helps any, I have a so-designated 400 from '78. But since it was delivered on the wrong side of the (Mississippi) river, it says "KTM" on the tank and not Penton, blue rather than the preferred orange.
I have always wondered why I call my 1978 250 an MC5 when it has 6 gears. I never heard of an MC6 just a GS6 and my bike was set up for MX so I keep calling it an MC5, it just sounds right!!! Maybe that's just because the music group was called The MC5 not The MC6. What I'm really glad about is that it is an awesome machine and I love it. Hooray for Penton/KTMs - the BEST!!!
Teddy
John,
My knowledge pretty well drops off after the '77 model year, and there seemed to be pretty much all MX-focused bikes sold out west, so good to know there were still "GS" versions through '78. Regardless of the side of the Mississippi you were on, the were all KTM-branded beginning in '78.
I'd bet if we took a poll of all the "MC5" owners, we'd find the majority are 6 speeds. I've only ridden 3, but all had 6 cogs. Go figure.
This topic of 6 sp vs 5 sp has come up before. I didn't do a search to get the correct answer, but if I'm not mistaken, the only diffenence was something like a gear stop. All the engines came with 6 gears and the MC5's were locked out of one gear. I can't remember if it was 1st gear or not, but this was discussed in great detail in the past. One of the experts shop pop in here and set the record straight. Here is one of the posts about it a while back from the rocket.
Posted - 01/14/2005 : 10:08:32 PM
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Lloyd
Mike Lenz is the man to talk to about the 6-speed/5-speed switch. The MC5's that came with 5-speeds actually have a 6-speed transmission with 1st gear blocked out. I believe Mike can tell you how to do this. He is a memeber on this site, look up his name and send him an email.
Rocket
Donny Smith
I heard from a certain source that the 5 stood for the number of Maico's trailing behind in every race.The 77 KTM repair manual shows how to change from a 5 speed to a 6 speed. Also Bobby Lucas could enlighten you.
Bob Brizzee
When I rounded the top of the berm in sixth I had forgotten everything she said.
The 5-trailing Maicos makes the most sense for the MC5 designation...the interesting question is whether the KTM factory was shipping some/most of the MC5s with the 6th gear (1st) enabled, or if the dealers were pulling motors out, splitting cases--the only way to change the shift drum--before selling them (not likely), or if a whole lot of owners were going that extra effort. I'm guessing "MC5" was consistent marketing with larger-bore MXers at the time which had 5 speeds, and a way to avoid concern that it might be an enduro-MX compromise bike, but that most MC5s came out of the factory with 6-speed shift drum setups.
My '77 MC5 400 came from the guy who bought it new, who said he'd never had the motor out, and with all 6 speeds working just fine, so there's at least one verified to have been set up that way by the factory or dealer.
Thanks to Kip Kern's for his posted response to my question on 6 speed transmission selection about the 5 vs. 6 speed modification refers to the 1978 shop manual.
"check out a "78" KTM engine shop manual and it will show you the pin in the shift drum! CIAO"
The transmission can be changed from 5 to 6 speeds by changing the hexagon head-head dog point screw located just below the countershaft sprocket on the right hand side of the engine case. The 5 speed version is 3mm longer and blocks the use of first gear. The 2 different length screws can be changed externally as long as the transmission is not in first gear or neutral, or damage to the gear shift drum could occur.
With that information, it is evident that the cases would not have to be split or any engine dissasembly required.
Michael R. Winter
1974 250 Harescrambler
1977 250 MC5 Project
1978 250 MX6
1979 250 KTM Project
1980 250 MX KTM
Hmmm...a modfication made in '78 for externally changing the shift drum? Had never heard that existed, and haven't worked on anything newer than a '77 to make that discovery. No such option for the '76 and '77 MC5s, only way to change it is to split cases, yet still most seem to have been 6 speeds originally. I'm still guessing factory set up.
I own a 76 250 MC5. When I uncrated the bike, it was a six speed right from the factory. The bike was purchased mid season if that makes a difference.
My original question was not whether the bike was a six speed or a 5 speed, it was if anyone had ever heard of a MX-6 or seen a MX-6 side panel decal like pictured on the bike in the eBay listing that I bought. It was been on the bike before the person I bought it from which owned it for over 20 years. If it is not original, what might it have been used on? The only other MX-6 I can find reference to is a Can Am MX-6 Qualifier, but I can't locate any pictures showing such a decal.
Michael R. Winter
1974 250 Harescrambler
1977 250 MC5 Project
1978 250 MX6
1979 250 KTM Project
1980 250 MX KTM
Mac, yes you have worked on a newer bike than a 77, you worked on mine. Remember I drove down to your place and we split the cases to fix the shifting problem on my 78 400....
By the way I think you are right about the MC5's The first as you know came out in the spring of 76, I know I have one and I had to order it to get it.. I waited several months to get it.. The 5 started out to signify that it was a five speed at least that is what I was told back then when I asked about it. but it also meant that it was a MX frame.(that year the MX frame and enduro frame were the same, 77 they went back to a frame that looked more like the high breather for the enduro) That soon led to the distinction that it was a MX frame and had little to do with the number of gears it had. I can remember being disappointed that my new bike did not have a six speed. It was not until a couple of years ago that I realized that it had come with six but that first gear had been blocked out. The 78 did not have that distinction. Just me two cents.
Thom Green,Still crazy after all these years!
76' 250 MC5 (orginal owner)
78' 400 MC5
I own a 76 250 MC5. When I uncrated the bike, it was a six speed right from the factory. The bike was purchased mid season if that makes a difference.
My original question was not whether the bike was a six speed or a 5 speed, it was if anyone had ever heard of a MX-6 or seen a MX-6 side panel decal like pictured on the bike in the eBay listing that I bought. It was been on the bike before the person I bought it from which owned it for over 20 years. If it is not original, what might it have been used on? The only other MX-6 I can find reference to is a Can Am MX-6 Qualifier, but I can't locate any pictures showing such a decal.
Michael R. Winter
1974 250 Harescrambler
1977 250 MC5 Project
1978 250 MX6
1979 250 KTM Project
1980 250 MX KTM
Mac, yes you have worked on a newer bike than a 77, you worked on mine. Remember I drove down to your place and we split the cases to fix the shifting problem on my 78 400....
By the way I think you are right about the MC5's The first as you know came out in the spring of 76, I know I have one and I had to order it to get it.. I waited several months to get it.. The 5 started out to signify that it was a five speed at least that is what I was told back then when I asked about it. but it also meant that it was a MX frame.(that year the MX frame and enduro frame were the same, 77 they went back to a frame that looked more like the high breather for the enduro) That soon led to the distinction that it was a MX frame and had little to do with the number of gears it had. I can remember being disappointed that my new bike did not have a six speed. It was not until a couple of years ago that I realized that it had come with six but that first gear had been blocked out. The 78 did not have that distinction. Just me two cents.
Thom Green,Still crazy after all these years!
76' 250 MC5 (orginal owner)
78' 400 MC5