Isn't this picture backward (meaning that the picture with the negative reversed)?
http://www.pentonusa.org/archive/homepage/default_020606.htm
Larry Seale
I choose to ride
Besure to click on the picture to enlarge it.
Kip,
Nice job, I am anxious to the bike in person.
Paul
Kip;
Beautiful bike and a great job. Are you planning to add the enduro equipment at some point in time or will it remain an MX'r?
Richard
Larry;
No, the picture is not reversed. This bike used a Puch 175 engine so the pipe and drive line are opposite of the Sachs engined Pentons. A picture of an enduro version of this bike was featured on the site a couple of months ago and generated a lot of comments. As I recall the thread, only one or two prototypes of this bike were built in an effort to get KTM to build a 175 engine.
Richard
.enigne HCUP 571 a htiw epyt-otorp notneP 9691 eht fo acilper motsuc ffo-eno s'piK s'tI ,yrraL
Just stunning Kip ((huge applause)), you are the master of your art.
Where will this masterpiece find home ?
I hope to once again absorb and enjoy the fruits of your labor (this machine) at the AMA next month. Thanks
Bob W
Very Nice Kip, I thought the first jack piner came out in 70' and had a black KTM motor. I guess I do know as much as I knew I didn't know. Or something like that, :)
Thom Green,Still crazy after all these years!
76' 250 MC5 (orginal owner)
75' GS400 (project bike)
72'sixday (project bike)
Kip" Great fabracation,looks to be a Puch engine!I bet you're bike will really get down to business,better shifting,faster than the sachs!Great job!;)[^]
This project started when I happened onto original dealer literature, purchased from Ebay, several years ago. With input from Jack Penton, and Dane Leimbach, and a really good jewelers lupa, I was able to construct the entire machine from a single page photo. This B/W photo depicts Jack riding the bike when he was a teen and also provides the production specifications of the machine. The project took several hundred labor hours to complete as the frame was cut apart several times, fitted then reassembled (not to mention, painted a few times). Quite a bit of the machine was hand made making production very slow and tedious.
My two cents worth; No way could a "69" Penton frame have withstood the punishment that a 175cc Puch engine would have given it. I might add too, that the original 1969 Jackpiner 175 came in MX trim as with other Pentons of that era sans, no lights.
I think this first prototype Jackpiner in conjunction with the 1970 Blue/White Jackpiner (125cc Sachs engine, with "Jackpiner" decal on tank) and the R/D of the 175cc experimental Sachs engine (standard Sachs bottom with 175cc top), was the correct amount of leverage applied to get KTM to build what the Penton family had originally requested, a KTM engined 175cc Jackpiner as we know from late 1971, early 1972.
Many thanks to several POG members and nonmembers for their parts/service assistance as if not for these folks, I would not have been able to produce this piece of Penton history.
Next project, hand built Hiro!;)
In this case, I wouldn't see a problem. Kip has just made a reproduction of a prototype, which I imagine, is no longer in existence. He has recreated a piece of Penton history and given us an opportunity to view something that is no longer availible. I'm sure there won't be many reproductions like this plus it will always be known as a reproduction. It can't devalue another because there are no others like it.
Just my opinion.
Nice job Kip.
Lew Mayer
Kevin, just maybe there is more than one guy on this website that loves his penton so much that he's willing to spend several hundred hours building a Penton and also several thousand dollars to complete it.
As far as affecting the market value, or it being a Mongrel, counterfeit or phony, I wouldn't sell my Penton I rebuilt, welded, fabricated, painted, torn the whole thing back down and started all over again. Ever.
I dont think Kip would ever sell that bike, cause there isen't a whole bunch of us willing to put in the hundreds of hours and the thousands of dollars... to construct another.
Made in some Americans garage = built in the USA.
Kip, simply beutiful, wow :)
Raymond
Down East Pentons
Beautiful job Kip!!!
Thomas Carmichael
1970 125 Six Day
1976 250 Hare Scrambler
Hi Kevin,
My opinion: reproductions don't usually hurt the value of the 'real thing' ... (lots of watches out there that look alike Rolex watches, but Rolex pricing is determined by Rolex Corp's strict and disciplined distribution, plus the product being handmade over many many labor hours by skilled craftsmen (a Daytona Cosmograph takes Rolex a year and a half to make)).
As we all know here, vintage bikes require a lot of manhours to restore/maintain, so there will always be a recognition and appreciation for the effort and artistry that goes into a finished Penton product. Penton's are the best example of a magical, classic period of history - they are a work of art, and like the paintings of the Masters, they aren't making new ones anymore. Collectors always want the real thing, and Pentons - unlike Beany Babies - are the real thing.
I agree with you, though, that it's painful to see a Penton that's been haphazardly bastardized over the years with spare parts from wherever. But probably most of the Penton community's response to a bike like that is "hey, here's an opportunity to save another one!"
Kip, I'm glad I was dumb enough to ask the initial question about your bike - I've learned a lot from this thread! And the bike is gorgeous.
PS - I have about 100 Beany Babies of my daughter's in the attic if anyone wants to buy some ;)
Larry Seale
I choose to ride
Larry
Don't feel too bad, I have cases of 12" GI Joe's MIB stored in my garage! I like the Beany Babies too.
Kevin, I only built the bike to see if I could as I was bored with the regular production of Pentons and decided to make the prototypes. I like a challenge and the standard bike wasn't presenting that anymore so now, for a next project, I am hand building a Hiro with a NOS engine just to see if I can and also try to experience something that Penton went through when concocting these things. I did the same when restoring cars and Harley's, the regular stuff was fun but when it got too simple, I switch to the harder more obscure stuff. The bike is presented as a prototype of a prototype and will always be represented that way as long as I am alive. This is a fun hobby/group, kinda neat to do the unusual that noone else is doing. I sorta compare it to a few of the very early bikes in the AMA museum, they aren't in existance anymore but someone took the time and research to copy them for us to see and enjoy!;)
Kip, well said !!, i have a 73 Husky CR125 with a Honda MB5 motor in it, i don't think it will be repoped any time soon but when people see it they can't ask enough ?'s about it, your bike is a 10 in my book, can't wait to see the Hiro !!, thanks, Mike G. from NJ.
As someone who actually saw and rode (very briefly) the original prototype, I'm tickled to death that Kip has built this machine. It was a very notable piece of the Penton/KTM history, because it probably showed Mr. T that it really was time to get their own engines off the ground. Thanks again, Kip.
Dane
Awesome bike Kip! And there's one more Penton on two wheels, not in pieces forgotten in a barn or worse diseminated through ebay. I had remarks also about my Maxpiner project like "How could you do that to a Penton?" My answer was the same. It was assembled out of many parts from my barn and swap meets.Better to have another Penton together than not at all.
My inspiration came from Mr Penton himself.He related to me he would have liked to put his NSU Maxi engine in one of his Penton Motorcycles as they were super reliable. Four stroke in a dirt bike ? Penton, ahead of his time once again
Jeffrey P. Borer
Great looking bike Kip. It's pretty hard just to locate, refinish and bolt together the pieces to make a stock Penton, let alone a one-off special! Now you have me thinking there are new hieghts to be reached here. My first project would be a 50cc KTM like this little guy:
http://www.six-days.org/pages/archivio_it/archit/it_a/ktm_it/ktm_ph/51.html
I've seen quite a few of the engines on Italian Ebay, looks like it has a 72 Six Day frame.
Chakka
Has anybody given any thought to featuring a different Penton on the webpage each month?? Interested Poggers could submit photos and get a little recognition for their work. Just an idea.[^]
That's what our webmaster does. He picks a different machine each month, and normally it becomes an official contest to see who knows anything about the machine and/or the people in the picture.
Dane
Dane, I really look forward to the old photos that get posted on the homepage. It would be great to have an old photo archive on the POG site
Chakka
Kip,
When your desire for a challenge needs a fix, there is one other item of Penton history that would be neat to see re-produced. Dane's Uncle Ted built what was refered to as the " smoker". How about it Dane, can you fill Kip and the gang in on the details of the "smoker"?
Penton trivia question, Dane's uncle Ted had a nickname for his brother John Penton, what was it?
Paul
Page 40 of "John Penton and the Off road Motorcycle Revolution":Ted who called John- SLUG- said "Well Slug,why don't you just go out there and break that record?"
Wildman
1975 250 Cross Country, 1974 175 Jackpiner, 1975 125
Wildman,
Your pretty quick, not only on those Michigan trails but also at Penton trivia. It is interesting to think of the ripple effect of that challenge. I also wonder why Ted called JP slug, was he slow at something or could he provide a slug when needed? We just might have to pose that question at the Penton Day at The AMA meeting in Feb.
Paul
I don't remember the motive for doing it, but Uncle Ted decided that he didn't want his new Ford pick-up with the utility box on the back, to have just a standard engine. Apparently, Ford's optional V-8 didn't satisfy him, so he stuffed a 3 cylinder, Detroit Diesel bus engine in it. He took delivery of the truck, took it home to the machine shop, (which by the way, is where Penton Racing Products is now located) jerked the 300 cu.in. inline 6 out of it, and put the diesel into it. Of course, he also put a heavy duty transmission in it to handle the torque of the diesel.
One of the funnier things about the truck, was that even though he put the transmission in it with a floor shifter, he left the column shifter in it as well. But whenever you would pull on the shifter to put it in gear, you'd get a very loud blast from the air horn mounted under the hood.
The thing was equipped with dual cab stacks for some bling and the whole thing was painted "chrome yellow", or more recognized perhaps, school bus yellow.
I don't remember exactly what he did to it, but the suspension had to be beefed up because of the weight of the engine.
The engine had so much torque, that you really didn't need the first three gears in the transmission, unless of course, you were towing the "gate trailer". The gate trailer, was a trailer built to haul a portable motocross starting gate that Penton Brothers Inc. designed and built. They were called the Fair Start gate, and were some of the first examples of starting gates in the country. We would rent the gate to tracks around the country to let them see the advantage of having a gate instead of just a flagman or rubber band start. I don't remember how many we built, but there were a bunch. One of the last gates that I know that was still in service, was removed from a track called Ohio International Raceway, just about two years ago.
One last note about the Little Smoker: during the installation of the engine, Uncle Ted lost the index finger on his right hand, when it got pinched between the engine and the frame when the chain holding the engine, slipped. He fought with all the problems with it for many years after, but just like other problems in his life, he never let it get him down.
Dane
Wow, the "smoker" sounds like a little more work than I could handle;) Besides, I want to keep all my digits on my hands! This sounds more like a project for "Monster Garage":D
Hi Kip and all,Very,Very,Very nice!Believe it or not i bought a 175 Puch about a month ago and when i rolled it up on the lift in my garage it was sitting right next to my complete but ragged 71 steeltanker project i haven't started on yet, and two 71 steeltanker frames.i saw the early picture as well and naturally the gears in my noggin started spinning.this was before i saw the picture of yours.so thanks for saving me a ton of work(it sounds like you really put your heart in to this one)and a bunch of time and money!i hinted to our friend Ron Carbaugh i was thinking of doing something a little "off the wall" on a project that might blow some minds but never told him exactly what i was thinking.You beat me to the punch and the bikes a knockout!great job Kip and good luck on the Hiro (though you certainly won't need any luck,just lots of time,eh!). Cheers,Ric p.s.-did you snap pictures of build in progress?No,not for me to make a copycat bike-not a chance!But it might make a neat article in Still Keeping Track. Hint,Hint!
ric emmal
Ric
I sure did, about 30 photos total. From the time I had the frame complete and so on to the finished project. I figured I had better take photos as down the road, I would have a reminder that I don't want to take on something like this again![:0]
Anyone who has the book "Enduro" by Thomas Firth Jones, can see the original Puch powered Penton being ridden by Leroy Winters at the Jack Pine in 1969 on page 42. The first time I looked at that picture I thought it was reversed, till I got out the magnifying glass and took a better look.
We have now seen Pentons powered by NSU, Puch, Sachs, KTM and Hiro engines. I wonder if by chance there is still another "special" out there somewhere? I will never forget when Pat Mickevicius brought his Hiro powered machine to a POG meeting and Dane walked into the machine shop and brought out the remaining stock that the original engine mounts were cut from 30 years prior.
Paul
Paul I wonder what other treasures Dane uncovered when he moved to his new location?
Looking forward to next meeting, you might check with Mark for bleachers in the meeting room. Hope the weather holds like its been the last few days.
Jim
The other side of cool... [8D]
(http://www.pentonusa.org/forum_images/misc/kip_kern.jpg) (http://www.pentonusa.org/forum/)