What, if anything, is special about this Penton?
http://www.pentonusa.org/archive/homepage/default_051006.htm
(http://www.pentonusa.org/images/homepage/homepage_030706_closeup.jpg) (http://www.pentonusa.org/forum/)
(http://www.pentonusa.org/images/homepage/homepage_030706_large.jpg) (http://www.pentonusa.org/forum/)
Would it be one of the first 10? No fork stops, Chrome exhaust, never saw an ignition cover like that.
Dennis Jones
Anybody that recognizes this machine and definitely knows what/who's it is/was, please keep it to yourself. We'll let you know after people get some guesses in. Guess away everybody.
Dane
Could this be the 1st Penton Prototype?? This is just a guess based on the Chrome Pipe and ignition cover.
Donny Smith
Hi All,
Nice bike !! Looks to be a very early one for sure because of some of the stuff mentioned in the previous posts. A couple things I noticed that are different from early Pentons I've seen are the rear sprocket and the later style gas cap. Thought most of the real early bikes had a screw on type gas cap.
Dave McCullough
Hi again,
Forgot to mention in my earlier post that there is no chainguide/ rub block on it either. Looks like the chainguard has a place to install one but it just not there.
Dave McCullough
The frame looks like it is plated, not painted.
Spencer Gaydon
Lubbock, TX
Dave,
As I know it, the early 68's had the 4 bolt sprocket drive, like this one.
Donny Smith
Donny,
Yes, it looks to have the standard 4 bolt rear hub. I was mainly talking about the sprocket itself. Sprocket is a different style that what I've seen on the early bikes.
Dave McCullough
The stucco wall and stone pavers look similar to last month's picture. Could this bike be located in Italy too? Skip
I agree with Skip, the image appears to come from the same source/location. I assume the knurled knob visable above the bar clamp is a steering dampener of some type?
Patrick Houston
Actually, according to my research the pipe gives it away.;)
The pipe narrows "the trail", but it doesn't give it away.
Dane
late model cable adjusters ?? with a 5a motor.
Raymond
Down East Pentons
I still say it's the 1st and only prototype for the Great Penton Six Day. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!!!!!!
Donny Smith
For those of you who've guessed that this might be "THE" prototype of the Penton Six Day, you're 100% correct. Like the Jackpiner prototype, this bike is in the collection of the former Italian KTM distributor, Arnaldo Farioli. It has been a very long time since I've seen the bike, butI do know that there are a couple of things "wrong" with it. Anybody want to throw out some ideas as to what they might be?
I don't know anything about the engine's side covers, but I'm going to try and contact some of my Austrian friends and see if they can tell me where they came from.
Dane
Just a little hint. Check to see if you have the original post card or brochure and you may notice what Dane is talking about.
Ron Carbaugh
Nobody wants to try put the "mistakes" to this picture?
Dane
One thing I think is wrong is the seat, althout it is correct for the era, the early seats weren't pleated??
Donny Smith
Donny,
That is one of the things that really stands out for me as being absolutely incorrect. I don't know if that seat was put on the bike before we shipped it back to Europe or if it was put on over there, but is just isn't right in my mind. But then again, I don't know how interested Arnaldo is in making the bikes period accurate.
Dane
Dane,
I'm thinking the tank could be the wrong year as well, because of the Penton Lettering, I thought they were slanted on the early bikes. Also, can't really tell for sure on the photo, but could the front fender bracket be the wide one and not the narrow one??
Donny Smith
Donny,
I think that the fender brace is the correct one, but without looking at it straight on, I can't tell for sure. The fender may be a narrow one instead of the wider fenders, which would make the brace look narrower than normal.
The tank is definitely not correct, and I'm guessing that the tank was replaced with a newer one, due to the use of the machine prior to it's retirement.
You still haven't hit one item that I know for sure.
Dane
Dane,
Probably grasping at straws but here's a couple guesses from me. Looks like there could be less fins than normal on the cylinder. Also looks like the front fork lower legs are a mismatched pair. How did I do ??
Dave McCullough
Rear Wheel Rim!!!! Maybe the front too, but I can't tell from the full photo.
Donny Smith
Dane,
Hmmmm... I figure there has to be a reason why the enlarged picture is cropped like it is sort of highlighting the engine area of the bike. With that in mind, I just took another close look in the same area I was scrutinizing earlier around the cylinder. I can see the fuel line, throttle, choke, and clutch cables but there's more. Looks like what appears to be an extra gray cable running down past the right side of the carb and into the area between the carb and base of the cylinder. Could this extra cable be used for a compression release built into the cylinder ?? If that's not it I'll keep looking !!
Dave McCullough
The chamber looks to have two welded in treaded bosses to bolt on a heat shield? Gavin
Dane,
Throttle not oval , handle bar clamps different, correct handle bars?
Somethin' looks odd about the engine block, is brake lever correct width? Were the original petcocks German or Italian?
Jeff
Jeffrey P. Borer
It looks like someone put a breather hose for the Ignition and there is what looks to be a tool mounted just forward of the shock, behind the pipe. Obvious the heat sheild missing.
Donny Smith
Now for the "left" side...
(http://www.pentonusa.org/images/homepage/homepage_030706_left.jpg) (http://www.pentonusa.org/forum/)
OK, Even the front wheel look to be aluminum. And a very strange looking Kickstarter too! ALso, the rear brake pedal is differnet looking than the one in the 001 parts manual?
Donny Smith
Kickstarter looks like the early Jackpiner kickstarter.
Lew Mayer
Hi All,
Here's my try for tonight. It looks like the crossbar is bolted to tabs on the handlebars. I still think the bike has a compression release on it because I see what appears to be the ball end of another lever just barely visible above the clutch lever dust cover. Can't see the entire lever because it must mounted with the lever facing aft. I can see it has the metal Magura crank type choke lever also like the early Jackpiners. Come on Dane...how are we doing ??? Are any of us getting warmer ??
Dave McCullough
Dave,
You could be right, but I don't see the extra cable. I see the Clutch, Throtle, Choke cables, fuel line, ignition wires and the igition cover vent line, but that is all I see. I can kinda see what you are refering to on the bars, but tough shot to see anything there real well.
Donny Smith
Comparing this bike to some '69 sales literature I'm looking at - which was printed April of '69 with a '68 model bike like this one:
Has the same engine side covers.
Same forks, with unmatched legs L to R.
Same handlebars, with bolt-on crossbar.
Same handlebar clamps, alum. blocks instead of common U-bolts.
Same chrome pipe, only having chrome wire heat shield.
Same flip-up gas cap, with turn lever.
Same rims. Borani's
Different seat without pleats.
Different slanted tank decals.
Different choke lever, early typical pull-in, instead of twist.
Different kick starter, like commonly seen.
And...I can't see the rear brake pedal well enough.
Bob
Rear fender appears to be shorter too!
Donny Smith
Rear fender appears to be shorter too!
Donny Smith
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Is it not one of the most beautiful machines ya ever saw ?
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It's definetly in my top five favorite bikes on this planet.
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Is it allowed visitors ?
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Thanks,
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Bob
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Bob,
Think back to the fall of 1967, and imagine how you would have felt, if you saw this machine at that time? Think about the other machines that were on the market at that time, and then feasting your eyes on an out of the box, full on 125cc race machine. THAT is when this machine really made an impression on me.
Dane
As this month is about to close, are we going to get the list of "What is Special" on this great machine??
Donny Smith
I'm with Donny. End of the month so it's time to give up all her secrets. Thanks !!
Dave McCullough
This machine is indeed where the whole Penton era started. This is the prototype of the 125cc Penton Six Day and was completed in December of 1967. I don't remember exactly when it arrived here in Ohio, but once it did, it saw lots of use in various competitions.
Obviously since this is the prototype, we can't compare it to any of the production versions, but there are some things "wrong" with it now compared to how it arrived over here in '67.
Many of you have picked out the differences from other early pictures of the bike, but nobody mentioned the rear sprocket. The one that is on the bike now, is different from the original, in that instead of cut shapes, this one has drilled holes.
The tank and seat have been replaced with new parts, probably because it was just easier than going through the effort to go back to the original.
When we returned the bike to KTM, I'm pretty sure that it was whole, but since "our" intent was to continue to make a better machine, nobody paid any attention to making the bike a museum piece. I'm betting that somebody at KTM had that idea in mind, which is probably why they wanted it back, but obviously, nobody took the time to restore it to the original state.
The throttle is a round one instead of the oval tube models. I really liked that oval version. It just seemed to me, that it was easier to hang onto instead of the round ones.
The cylinder head that is on the bike now, is a "return", because at one time, this bike had one of the sunburst heads on it.
I'm still trying to find out about the engine's side covers, because this is the only Sachs engine I've ever seen, with these covers.
At one time, the machine was fitted with bolt on fork stops because obviously, the steering dampener wasn't strong enough to keep the forks from hitting the tank in a crash. As I remember, there was a clamp that went around the down tube and there was basically a bolt that tightened the clamp and provided a stop.
The cylinder looks "normal" to me, so I don't think that there are a different number of fins.
The petcocks look normal as well; the "square block" type with reserve.
One of the ironically funny things to me, is that there isn't a rubber on the shift lever. I know that I always had to have on on my bike, otherwise it just didn't "feel" right.
The forks look to be the original ones on the machine. I have no idea of what they were originally from, but I d remember that they were different than the production versions. One of the other "odd" things about the forks, is that this one didn't have a lug cast into the leg that served as the stop for the brake plate. If you look you can see a clamp around the right fork leg, above the axle. That clamp had a bar welded to it that fit into the slot in the brake plate to hold it fixed.
I don't know about the brake pedal, the rear fender, and other things about the bike, but I do know that as I mentioned in my last posting, this machine looked so "tough" when it first arrived, that I knew right off the bat, that it was going to be a winner.
Thanks for all your comments on the pictures. I'm working on getting some pictures of other machines, that have a history, and once I'm able to do so, we'll post them on the site again.
If any of you have any other questions about the bike, fire away, and I'll see if I can answer them for you or try to find answers.
Dane
Dane,
I will look at all the information I have on this bike and see what if, any other changes I can identify, and also if I have any early pictures in my Archieves that shows this side cover. Thanks for the Great Quiz.
Ron Carbaugh