Hey guys,
I just talked to the trail boss for the ride this month in Combs, Arkansas. He is laying out 3 new virgin trails for us and has moved the 5 lap grass track to a bigger, better location. It's going to be awesome this year. WHERE ARE ALL THE PENTON TEAMS????? Pre registration ends this Friday. Hurry up and get your entries in!!! The entry form is at http://www.ahrma.org/previews/ISDTVQ_entry.pdf
Teddy
Jamie's and My entry went in today. See you there
Dennis Jones
Do you have a third Penton rider for a team???? Is Jaime on a Penton/KTM? Looking for Penton teams to beat the Hodaka teams!!!!
Teddy
I'll be there on my '79 KTM 250 Teddy. Will you be bringing a new Lectron for me so I can chase down and overtake the burly "Maico Man" from California?
My knee is fine now, and something "popped" in my hip the other day and it no longer hurts. Yippee! The doc. said I probably had bursitus. I am in rare form to overtake the German lawnmower man.
Phast
Teddy I plan to ride my 77 Penton,Jamie is on a 79 KTM, Our 3rd Tommy Viers is on a brand X. Team - Off Constantly
Dennis Jones
Phast,
The Jackpiner won't be ready, so yes the German buzzzzzsaw gets the nod.
The handlebars have bein cut. Still a little chicken to go too fast through tight virgin single trak.I did not grow up in the back woods like you!!
But when the Maico gets to the Grass track, she says Bye Bye. Nothing rails like a Maico.
This will be EPIC!!!!!
Pablo (socal)
I would offer my services to any Penton team that needs another rider.
Larry P
Larry,
Great to see you back on the site. I wish I could ride with you. I'm sorry i missed you last Friday at Don's race. I hope the Race Shop is doing well.
Ron Carbaugh
Larry,
I sent my entries off for Anza, CA but still need to lock down bikes. If I cannot find rent a bikes I could team with you. Never rode an ISDT or an Enduro before. What class would I sign up in with a 125 Six Days?
Thanks,
Tom B
Tom,
ISDTVQ Combs Ark. is a 23 hour drive for me, Anza ca. is 1 hour drive for me. I am going to Arkansas that should give an ideal how great this event is. Give it a try and you will be back every year!!!
Paul (socal)
Paul,
That is pretty amazing to take the drive willingly. Is the ISDTVQ all hills twisting through the woods? Driving from Jefferson, TX through Arkansas every year is beautiful landscape.
I need some help with the entry form being that I need to send it Friday. Do I sign up for Classic? Sportsman 200? With a 73 125 6 Day.
TB
Stolen from vinduro group:
Teddy's busier than I've ever seen him. He actually took the time to call me
while he was at the T-shirt manufacturer (for this event). I'll see if I can't
fill you in a little bit on the differences between Day 1 and Day 2. See this
link which will give you a boatload of information to assimilate
http://www.ahrma.org/previews/isdtvq.htm One thing it does not mention is the
new trail that Rick Owens (vintage friendly Trail Master extrordinaire) has cut.
Also, check out the picture of where you'll be camping at
http://razorbackriders.com (see the main page).
Day 1 is the long day (if you can call it that). It usually has somewhere
around 40 mi. of terrain for us to cross. If you ride fast you'll arrive at
each checkpoint at least 20 minutes early which is meant to be spent chatting
with your friends and making new ones. I *think* that at the end of Day 1 there
will be the tire-changing contest which is a real hoot to watch. Some of those
guys could give Dwighty a run for his money. After the riding there's the
bragging and camraderie around the campfire and dinner is usually supplied for
$6.00 and is brought in from a local who can really cook. I'd highly recommend
it.
Day 2 is a lighter day with 20-25 mi. of trail to cover. At the end of Day 2
there's the 5-lap grass track motocross and the award ceremony. Last year I
think I made it back to Kansas City by 10:00pm (4:15 drive). It's the one event
besides the ISDTRR that I plan on riding a year in advance. The people are very
friendly and the riding area is GREAT. If rain is in the forecast don't sweat
it - it rained last year and I was worried. However, the terrain is very
hardpacked (in some places rocky) but the year Rick Owens laid out the trail it
was VERY vintage friendly. The puddles seem to have rock bottoms and don't
become mud-infested quicksand either. Most of the trails slip alongside the
hillside so the water doesn't have much of an opportunity to accumulate.
I'm planning on camping if the weather forecast looks promising, otherwise I
will motel it north of Combs, AR in Fayetteville. I've stayed south before but
it requires a lot of driving switchbacks to get there and isn't worth the 10 mi.
difference in distance.
Phil
Man, I hate that I am going to miss this event. It is becoming a MUST DO event like the ISDTR. I will be there next year. Who knows what I might be riding then. Penton Jackpiner, SIX DAY, Hercules K100GS, Hodaka,or Ossa. I also heard that the Vinduro VISDT trail ride would be open to a few more riders next year and it would be at New Blaine, Ark. Lynn Burton will be hosting it. In the past it has been mostly hosted by Vinduro founder Andre Ming and limited to 15 riders. It usually is a real hoot. The only play ride I go to each year if that tells you something. Arkansas is a great place to ride.
Remember me while you are there.
Dwight
(recovering from back surgery)
Dwight Rudder
7 time ISDT / E medalist
8 time National Enduro Class Champion.
Tom Benolkin,
You would have so much fun at this you wouldn't be able to erase the grin for weeks!!!! Sportsman 200 or Classic would be the two best choices. Obviously in the Sportsman 200 class, there will be 100 to 175 cc bikes. You would get to compete against ISDT expert veteran Greg Holder who I think is going to ride a Hodaka against his will, he would rather ride a Penton!!! Reed valves are allowed in the sportsman class even if they didn't originally come on the bike. In the Classic class, the bikes are not limited by size, so you might be up against some 250 and 400cc bikes (so what says Tom). The class is just limited by bike age, 1971 or older. Your Six Day Penton is allowed to ride the Classic class even if it is a 1975 model as long as it has the Sachs engine in it and no reed valve. Someone convinced AHRMA that the Sachs transmission was enough of a deterrent to the bikes performance to allow post 1971 Six Days and any bike with a Sachs engine to ride the Classic class even though they are really too new to do so.
The only problem that I see about you entering this event is that the trees will be permanently bent forward after you pass them!!! Tazmanian angel??? I hope you come!!!!
Teddy
Sachs D engines are required to ride Sportsman class. Sachs A & B engines are allowed in Classic.
No KTM engines are allowed in Classic. 1972 Jackpiner must run Sportsman.
Cher'o,
Dwight
Dwight Rudder
7 time ISDT / E medalist
8 time National Enduro Class Champion.
Greg has been seeing a doctor and I am not sure he will be coming.
Thomas Carmichael
1970 125 Six Day
1976 250 Hare Scrambler
Dwight,
First of all our Prayers are with you for a speedy recovery. Just curious....how does ARHMA determine if I am riding a bike with a Sachs D engine?? I am serious and this isn't made to be a trick question. Thanks in advance.
Ron Carbaugh
Ron ,
If your not riding for ARHMA points I dont know it would matter a great deal if you have a D or A/B alloy cylinder engine. If your using a Mikuni or a bigger Bing spigot mount than stock ,then a A/B cylinder might look like a D from the outside. I would weld a flange on an A/B cylinder and use the Mikuni type rubber spigot mount to install those carbs. That would look identical to a D cylinder to most folks.
Adding the 2 extra transfer ports to to an A/B cylinder would make it better than the Monarch D cylinder porting specs I have. They did that to Zundapps and Sachs engine's in the late 60's early 70's.
John D.
John,
Thanks for your input. What I am getting at is I have heard what Dwight said before and I don't know how anyone can tell if I have a D cylinder on my bike. The normal tell tell sign is of course the intake manifold. The point is who at ARHMA knows the difference between a A, B or D and if they do the fact is I have had ported cylinders(A & B) out perform D cylinders.
Now if Dwight is talking about reed valve cylinders I would understand that a ARHMA tech would see the difference. I was just wondering....no big deal.[8D]
Ron Carbaugh
Thanks for the ISDTVQ input on classes for my 6 Days. Tentatively I may be going to Anza, CA riding a Monark. If things change my friend and I will be at the Arkansas race.
Thanks again.
Tom B
Hey Dwight,
Hope you're back is doing better man! Regarding the legality of the D engine, you're starting to sound like a true Hodakaphile! AHRMA does not require the D to run in the Sportsman class. The AHRMA Handbook outlines which bikes are legal for Classic 125 and it states "Pentons with Sachs engine" but doesn't mention B or D. The confusing part of the Handbook is several lines later where they state "Any motorcycles powered by Sachs engines 125/5A or 6A, 125/5B or 6B" are eligible. They later go on to state that Pentons with KTM engines are illegal in Classic 125.
That said, they do not state that the D Penton is illegal in Classic 125 nor do they say the D Penton is required to run in Sportsman 125. There is some debate over when the first Pentons arrived with the D engine (I say late 1974, others say 1975) but the D engines were available in a variety of different bikes in 1974.
We started running AHRMA Nationals with a D GS Penton in Classic 125 back in 2001 and have been running it ever since. Currently, there are quite a few other Pentons, Monarks, etc. running in Classic 125 with D engines (D, D GS, D GS Pro) and I have never witnessed a protest or disqualification regarding the D in Classic 125. In fact, AHRMA Off-Road Coordinator Dave Boydstun was even running a D engined Penton in Classic 125 during the 2002 or 2003 season.
As far as IDing the D goes, I believe the biggest visual differences are that the D cylinder has 6 fins instead of 7, the fins have "V" shaped braces between them, and the intake manifold bolts on. But the bottom line is the mechanical differences between the B and the D are not that big and the B can be modified ("stuffed" crankcase inserts, porting, bolt-on intake, etc.) to run like the D if you desire, so making the D illegal would be pointless.
Kent Knudson
Quotequote:Originally posted by tmc3c
Greg has been seeing a doctor and I am not sure he will be coming.
Thomas Carmichael
1970 125 Six Day
1976 250 Hare Scrambler
Greg is through with the Chemo as of a week ago and is working to build himself up for the ride. I spoke with him today and he is still planning on attending.
Cher'o,
Dwight
Dwight Rudder
7 time ISDT / E medalist
8 time National Enduro Class Champion.
Kent,
If this helps any, have a July 74 Six Day with the D engine in it. Some call it a 74 1/2.
Donny Smith
AHRMA RULE BOOK
SECTION 11 - VINTAGE MOTOCROSS
11.1.4 Classic 125
Any motorcycle powered by Sachs engines 125/5A or 6A, 125/5B or 6B
Limited to 32mm carb.
It doesn't say you can't run a D engine but the D engine didn't come out till 1975. And if specifically mentions the A and B engines. Now some B engines were modified to GS or D type specs.
D engines have 6 fins and rubber carb manifolds that bolt to the cylinder. Also V fin webbing.
I thought I remember something about D engines having to be in Sportsman as well as 1974 PUCH. But I don't see either mentioned now. So I guess it is up to the interpretur. I have also raced agains CZ and Husky in the Classic class with 38mm carbs. Nobody protested them either.
Dwight
Dwight Rudder
7 time ISDT / E medalist
8 time National Enduro Class Champion.
Dwight,
Hope you are healing quickly, and you are in our prayers. The D engine was actually available in May of 1974 from Sachs. Like I said, my July 74 Six Day has the D engine and it came that way.
Donny Smith
Quotequote:Originally posted by tlanders
Do you have a third Penton rider for a team???? Is Jaime on a Penton/KTM? Looking for Penton teams to beat the Hodaka teams!!!!
Teddy
Teddy I am not feeling the love :)
your friend Paul
Ok, so after Will Roger, Mike Lewis and Johnny Bench we all feel we can run what you brung, as far as a Sachs powered machine, in the Classic or Sportsman class. Are we all in agreement???? So once and for all this tale of not being able to run a D engine in these two class is put to rest, UNLESS YOU ARE RUNNING A REED VALVE. OK OK????
That is why this site is so GREAT. Thanks for everyones input.[^]
Ron Carbaugh
Hey Dwight,
What are you doing up at 3:09am buddy? Get some sleep!
Quotequote:Any motorcycle powered by Sachs engines 125/5A or 6A, 125/5B or 6B
Limited to 32mm carb.
It doesn't say you can't run a D engine but the D engine didn't come out till 1975. And if specifically mentions the A and B engines. Now some B engines were modified to GS or D type specs.
D engines have 6 fins and rubber carb manifolds that bolt to the cylinder. Also V fin webbing.
I already said all that stuff.
Quotequote:the D engine didn't come out till 1975.
The D was available in 1974 and there are lots of Pentons, Monarks, etc. to prove it.
Donny and Ron, I'm with you. I have seen D engined Pentons as early as 406.
Kent
My curiousity gets me on one point that I bet a bunch of you can answer;
What did they use to stuff the crankase with on D motors? My modern bike CR 250 Honda has some very nice end caps that press on to the main bearing pin to minimize volume. Is this the area and/or do they also stuff the wrist pin?
Like most of us in here I am fascinated by getting just a little more out of the little mill.
Thanks,
Tom Benolkin
PS Teddy,
Anza is not a certainty because of the rain that continues to belt the west coast. If we end up in Arkansas I hope you dont mind alot of question about the format and a general lack of enduro knowledge.
TB
Tom,
What's wrong with a little rain?? Back in my day, we raced in the rain, sleet or snow. :D
Donny Smith
Tom.
Here is a link with some pictures of a D set of cases. Doug was kind enough to supply the pictures. You can do the same thing in a different way to A/B cases. The D cases were prone to crank failures acording to Doug, if the throttle were held wide open for long periods of time. Looks like they did not cool the bearings , were restrictive in oiling. The A/B cases did a better job. If the link does'nt work for you send me an e-mail and i will send you the pictures. They are in the Library.
http://autos.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/PentonRestorationandTechGroup/photos/browse/253f
Donny,
Personally it can rain at every race I go to. I always say Minnesota did not get those 10,000 lakes from our gorgeous weather.
One big AHRMA problem is they tend to cancel VERY easily. In 2002 I drove 1900 miles alone for a cancelled race. I dont remember motocross being like that. That was a long, lonely trip home feeling very stupid. I was so bummed out I nearly sold everything.
TB
John,
I sent an e-mail your way. I could not get in. Thank you! Tom B
Donny,
Is the Arkansas move still a go for you? Be sure to let me know if you need a place to store those trick bikes.:D
Tom B
Hey John,
Doug has told me of his experiences with the "stuffed" D engines as well and it makes sense to me. Plus, I think the gains from "stuffing" the Sachs cases are fairly minimal anyway.
Also, aren't the D, D GS, and D GS Pro (and maybe some other versions?) all slightly different? Something made me think that only the D GS Pro came with "stuffed" cases. Maybe Doug can enlighten us. In our case, we run a D GS without "stuffed" cases in our race bike and it has been very reliable.
Kent
To everyone. The GS and GS Pro engines are B engines...unless someone has a engine that is marked differently. The D engine doesn't have the stuffed cases again unless someone tells me differently. I have example of all these engines (some are NOS) and that is why I am putting this post up. Also, there is an A GS engine that no one has discussed.
I agree with Doug Wilford (who wouldn't) about the stuffed cases being less desirable for Enduro and Cross-Country racing. Please if anyone disagrees with me, please speak up, since I would like for us all to get the knowledge of the Great Sachs engines out to better understand the technological history of these engines.
Ron Carbaugh
Here is some more information that I got from a Former Canadian PENTON KTM dealer and Leo Keller who is a world renown Sachs / Hercules Historian.
Dwight
===================================================
Leo, when exactly did the Sachs D engine come into use. I had a
mid year 1974 Penton Six Day 125with a GS ported cylinder but it was
a B engine with a 28mm Bing. I have had several people say that
they had mid year Pentons with D engines from 1974 . My bike had the
"Watermelon" gas tank as I know some of the early 1974 bikes still
had the flat sided tanks . I thought the D engine didn't come into
use until 1975. But I could be wrong.
Dwight
===================================================================
Dwight we brought 4 74 Pentons into our dealership in May 74 all marked KTM
special tuning but no D motors all B... 3 watermelon tanks and 1 toaster...
I still have the toaster tank bike and 1 of the watermelons I would be
curious to know your frame serial number the POG site lists 74 1/2 models
April 74 but I don't think so... Brian Taylor
==================================================================
Hello Dwight,
this is what I found:
29.10.1973: 454 1251/6B for KTM
12.12.1973: 133 1251/6BGS for Rossi Milano (Hercules Italy)
14.2.1974: 89 1251/6 BGS for SWM
That means that KTM did not get GS types
The last 5CMC were produced in Feb. 74 also.
In my list are only a few 6DGS motors for Italy in 76 (SWM and Sachs
Italia), I think that were spare motors.
Hercules came in GER with the D motor for the 75 models, so I think Sachs
produced the motors in late 74.
Leo Keller
==================================================================
The GS type had a special shifting - the difference between the B and D case
was the crankcase. The B type had only a slot for the connection rod, the D
type had an open case so you could see the crankshaft.
The same were the 5CMC and the 5 EMC motors.
7 fins for the B type cylinder, 6 and a rubber mount for the carb for the D
type.
I think KTM ordered standard motors because they had their own "KTM tuning"
for the gearboxes.
Leo
=================================================================
Food for thought here. I personally believe that some bikes were "UPGRADED" later with D engines. But like you said there is not a clear advantage for the D engine over a GS tuned B.
Dwight Rudder
7 time ISDT / E medalist
8 time National Enduro Class Champion.
Dwight,
Thank you for your leg work. One question....what is Leo refering to when he uses the initials CMC...chrome moly chassis?? Thanks again. It is time that we nail down some of the myths and give people as exact answers as we can. We will never be 100%, but we will get high marks for great information and trying to do it right. I hope you are healing fast.
Ron Carbaugh
Hey Dwight,
Thanks for checking with Leo. That's great info. Does he have any info on the GS Pro versions? As far as the Penton goes, the earliest D I've seen is 4 06. Also, Donny has an original 4 07 with a D engine, and I have a very original, unrestored 4 09 enduro with a D engine. Again, I call this 74 1/2 or late '74 but others may call it 1975. Here's a picture of my 4 09 that shows the uniqueness of the D cylinder for everyone who wants to see what we're talking about. http://gallery.pentonusa.org/gallery/album06/DSC09461
Ron, That's great info about the B engines. So which engines came with the "stuffed" bottom end? The B GS and B GS Pro or just the B GS Pro? Did any D engines come with "stuffed" cases? When are you Sachs guru's going to put together a database with the specs for each model and version of Sachs engine so the rest of us guys can get this all straight?
Regarding the D GS engine, I use a completely original, unmodified D GS engine in our race bike. It came out of a Hercules enduro that I purchased from the original dealer. http://gallery.pentonusa.org/gallery/album06/DSC09489
Thanks again guys,
Kent
I question what Leo said about the difference between the "B" and "D" crankcase below. I have found that the "D" crankcase is the one with the slot and is referred to as being "stuffed", the "B" cases offer a view of the crankshaft.
Below is what Leo stated in Dwight's post.
Paul
The GS type had a special shifting - the difference between the B and D case
was the crankcase. The B type had only a slot for the connection rod, the D
type had an open case so you could see the crankshaft.
Kent and All,
All of the B GS engines I have seen torn down had the stuffed cases or the small opening that allows the rod to just clear the cases. The main idea is to keep all the area down inside where the crank is as "dead air"....no volume so to say. I really don't call these cases stuffed cases as I relate to the first time I heard the term stuffed cases which was back in 1959 and it refered to Go Kart engines.
With that said, I have never torn down a D GS engine so I we have to wait till you tear your engine down to and send us pictures??
Tom B,
Your question of stuffed cases goes to the situation of what I call stuffed cases and you put cork or what ever to make a small tight crank case area. I can tell we are going to have to do a show and tell on this subject.
I guess I should have never ask what was legal and just set up and run what I wanted.[:p][B)] But we are having fun.
Ron Carbaugh
I have a set of "A" cases that Ted Penton had stuffed a number of years back. He had machined a notch in the center of the cases, in the area between where the flywheels would rotate, he then machined a horseshoe shaped aluminum insert that fits perfectly in the notch and extends into the crank area between the flywheels. The insert reduces the volume within the crankcases, this process was also referred to as "stuffing" the cases by engine builders.
To be able to identify these cases he put an "X" on the oil fill plug and marked the cases with " S 10 " in the area behind the fill plug. Since these cases are " S 10 ", there might be 9 other sets of these cases around, check your oil filler plugs for the stamped "X".
Paul
Kent,
My 74 looks just like your enduro, except my cases say Sachs, and not Penton, and mine has the cable strps and not the leather strap.
By the way, Great looking bike.
Paul,
I remember some talk awhile back about the use of the D engine in the Penton's. As I recall, they olny used the regular D and not the D GS. I don't remember everything that was said about it, But I worked in the parts Dept at a dealer the spring of 74 while I attended school and remember reading a Sachs bulletin about the new Sachs D engine. It was before I left California in May, so I think it was in March or April. So I am sure the D engine was available by mid 1974.
Ron,
The MX bike I sold about a year ago, had the D GS engine in it. I was told that it came out of a Monark. It did have the cases with just the slot in it. Also, it had a 5 speed gearbox with the shift lock unit installed. It also had an internal flywheel Motoplat and a 32 mm carb. It was actually faster than my 2002 KTM SX 125 in a straight line race.
Dwight,
There was no mention by Leo of Sachs engines being set to Monark during that time frame. I do know that they had bikes with the B GS abd D GS engines. The GS Pro Series as I know it, were modifications done by Monark as indicated in their parts manual. The GS parts all have Sachs part numbers and the GS Pro parts all have Monark/MCB part numbers.
Donny Smith
Donny,
My Six-Day bike in 74 had the "D" cylinder, I can remember preping my bike in the Penton work area and some onlookers making a point about the "D" cylinder. At the time I was not aware of the differences and didn't pay much attention to it. Years later when a discussion about these engines came up I remembered those comments and looked at some close up pictures of my ISDT machine and sure enough it was a "D" topend. The only other experiance that I have with those engines was watching as Kent's rider passed me on an uphill start in a motocross at Honds Hills a few years back on a "D" engine powered Penton, I though I had lost a cylinder:D
There is more Sachs engine info in Mark Halloways Monark website.
http://www.vintagemonark.com/
If you go to his FAQ section and scroll to the bottom he has a link to a picture of Sachs stuffed cases, he also gives some explanations concerning the Sachs GS Pro engines.
Paul
This is what I found for Monark with the 125 cc engine.
I don't think the KTM motors had the GS shifting.
Leo
7.547.001
7.547.028
Monark
1251/6 B GS
19,00
25.05.1973
28
7.547.229
7.547.321
Monark
1251/6 B GS
19,00
08.06.1973
93
7.547.350
7.547.378
Monark
1251/6 B GS
19,00
29.06.1973
29
7.547.632
7.547.831
Monark
1251/6 B
18,00
31.08.1973
200
7.547.901
7.547.901
Monark
1251/6 B GS
19,00
29.06.1973
1
7.547.902
7.548.058
Monark
1251/6 B GS
19,00
03.07.1973
157
7.548.458
7.548.458
Monark
1251/5 D
17,00
10.08.1973
1
Dwight Rudder
7 time ISDT / E medalist
8 time National Enduro Class Champion.
Thanks Dwight,
As always you are a great source of information. Tell Leo we all say thanks as well.
Regards
Donny Smith
Quotequote:Originally posted by firstturn
Dwight,
Thank you for your leg work. One question....what is Leo refering to when he uses the initials CMC...chrome moly chassis?? Thanks again. It is time that we nail down some of the myths and give people as exact answers as we can. We will never be 100%, but we will get high marks for great information and trying to do it right. I hope you are healing fast.
Ron Carbaugh
The 1251/5A came in 1968, the /5B in about 1970 (army bike motor), the /6A
was later than the /5B, than 6B and 5CMC, in 1974 came the 6C street, in 75
the 6D and 5EMC. In 1976 they had the 1252/1752/2501/2551 /7A, AMC, AMMC
(reed valve) motors, no "B" version.
So: just a little bit of system.
Leo
Dwight Rudder
7 time ISDT / E medalist
8 time National Enduro Class Champion.
Thanks Dwight via Leo Keller.
Ron Carbaugh
My projects include a "B", an "A", and a "D" engine.
When they're finished, it'll be B-A-D, as in good.......[8D] [xx(] [B)]
Brob
I think you need to move the black eye over one;). Good...[:p]
Ron Carbaugh
Anyone in California have a 125 Penton they will rent out for Anza? It could be a B,A,or D. Another weekend like Don's would be R-A-D!
Tom B
(Still fishing for a RIDE)
Tom
I wish I did. But my only running bike is in Arkahsas.
Rob,
you gotta get up to date on the NEW language, it's called SICK these days.
Donny Smith
Tom,
I can see the writing on the wall. We are going to have to have a North and South Penton for you to ride. Thanks again for the great time at Diamond Don's Race.[8D]
Ron Carbaugh
Bill's Monark is too nice for a possible west coast mudder. I keep my bike semi-ugly by design.
TB
I did send a mail out to Ric Emmal to help me locate a 6 Days.
Tom,
We all know the Monark is a fine MX machine, but I am sure we would rather see you Win on a Penton. :D
Donny Smith