Penton Owners Group

General Discussion => Penton Talk => Topic started by: motogon on July 25, 2006, 10:16:32 AM

Title: My new project bike KTM MC 175cc
Post by: motogon on July 25, 2006, 10:16:32 AM
Here my new project bike: 197? KTM MC5 175cc.

(http://www.korobov.com/images/ktm_ls.jpg)

(http://www.korobov.com/images/ktm_rs.jpg)

Bike very dirty but pretty much complete, just air filter and seat cover lost.
Everything functional even engine still have some compression!  
Also there is little problem: I can't understand what year this bike. Frame serial number 550 03328 - look like match 1976 - 77 MC5 model, but ... engine serial number is 8 5210973 - match to 1978 ???? Anybody?
Also any idea where I can find on internet repair manual and parts manual for this bike?
Any recommendation on restoration process?

Thanks,





Andrew
^^^^^^^^^^^
197? KTM MC175
2006 Husky TE/SM 510
2004 Zuki V-Strom 1000
Title: My new project bike KTM MC 175cc
Post by: tofriedel on July 25, 2006, 11:44:34 AM
Andrew,

Check out the "Production Years" page on this web site to determine your model year.  For parts and manuals check out Al Buener's catalog, located on the "Suppliers" page of this web site.

It looks like you are missing tail light lens, filter & side panels.  Al should have both items.  Your bike probably had a head light when it was new.  Check the wiring cable going to the frame stem.  You could have a GS or MC model.  They were basically the same except for electrics and lights.

Your bike looks to be in fairly good condition, not much wear on the tank & the exhaust pipe does not appear to be damaged.  Generally, these are good signs that the bike wasn't beat hard.

Good luck on your project.

Tony
Title: My new project bike KTM MC 175cc
Post by: G Ellis on July 25, 2006, 01:00:06 PM
Motogon.. What you have is a MC5 250 - 400 frame. The 175 motor is out of a 1978 most likely GS model. If you frame has lower motor mounts,the frame would be for a 250 or 400 . If you are interested in a 250 motor or would like to let go of the 175 motor. I would be interested in the 78 175 motor. I can trade a 250 motor or buy it out right. The pipe you have is off of a 79-80 model and will only fit a 175. I would be interested in it also if you want to let it go. You can emailme at [email protected]   Hope this helps Gary Ellis
Title: My new project bike KTM MC 175cc
Post by: Chakka on July 25, 2006, 01:08:21 PM
Andrew,
Great looking bike and very interesting. Preston Petty IT Rear fender...this bike looks identical to the US ISDT Team bikes for the year 1976. MC Frame and Tank with enduro trim. I want to build one just like this next winter.

Chris
Title: My new project bike KTM MC 175cc
Post by: motogon on July 25, 2006, 06:33:14 PM
Quotequote:Originally posted by G Ellis

Motogon.. What you have is a MC5 250 - 400 frame. The 175 motor is out of a 1978 most likely GS model. If you frame has lower motor mounts,the frame would be for a 250 or 400 . If you are interested in a 250 motor or would like to let go of the 175 motor. I would be interested in the 78 175 motor. I can trade a 250 motor or buy it out right. The pipe you have is off of a 79-80 model and will only fit a 175.

Nope there is no lower motor mounts.

(http://www.korobov.com/images/eng_mount.jpg)

Can be 250 motor installed without lower mounts? or this is too risky?

Quotequote:Originally posted by tofriedel

Andrew,
It looks like you are missing tail light lens, filter & side panels.  Al should have both items.  Your bike probably had a head light when it was new.  Check the wiring cable going to the frame stem.  You could have a GS or MC model.  They were basically the same except for electrics and lights.
Good luck on your project.

Tony
I have side panels. Even two sets. I believe orange ones original.

(http://www.korobov.com/images/side_cov.jpg)

What else missing: air filter cover. Is it important or I can live without it?
There is no wiring, I don't think this bike had lights. I think rear fender was installed later.
Front fender is "Preston Petty Product". Aftermarket?

(http://www.korobov.com/images/frfend.jpg)



Andrew
^^^^^^^^^^^
197? KTM MC175
2006 Husky TE/SM 510
2004 Zuki V-Strom 1000
Title: My new project bike KTM MC 175cc
Post by: G Ellis on July 25, 2006, 10:00:03 PM
Andrew... I have a MC5 250 without any bottom motor mounts also. You can run a 250 in this frame ok, but I wouldn't put a 400 in the frame. Front fender is an after market, faulk front fender is stock. Orange covers are the right ones. You can use the left side cover as your air box cover. Just put some foam on the cover over the air box. As far as the wiring if you have four wires coming out of your motoplat, you have a lighting coil. If only two wires no lights. Hope this will help   Gary Ellis
Title: My new project bike KTM MC 175cc
Post by: motogon on July 26, 2006, 02:28:41 PM
Quotequote:Originally posted by G Ellis

Andrew... I have a MC5 250 without any bottom motor mounts also. You can run a 250 in this frame ok, but I wouldn't put a 400 in the frame. Front fender is an after market, faulk front fender is stock. Orange covers are the right ones. You can use the left side cover as your air box cover. Just put some foam on the cover over the air box. As far as the wiring if you have four wires coming out of your motoplat, you have a lighting coil. If only two wires no lights. Hope this will help   Gary Ellis
Gary,

I sent you email. Where are you? I'm in Philly, PA.


Andrew
^^^^^^^^^^^
197? KTM MC175
2006 Husky TE/SM 510
2004 Zuki V-Strom 1000
Title: My new project bike KTM MC 175cc
Post by: checkcrew on July 26, 2006, 05:41:32 PM
Andrew, you have mail.

Mike Gallagher -          73 Jackpiner, 74 Six Day, 74 Mint 400, 76 MC5 400
Title: My new project bike KTM MC 175cc
Post by: motogon on July 26, 2006, 09:22:12 PM
Quotequote:Originally posted by tofriedel

Andrew,

Check out the "Production Years" page on this web site to determine your model year.  For parts and manuals check out Al Buener's catalog, located on the "Suppliers" page of this web site.

It looks like you are missing tail light lens, filter & side panels.  Al should have both items.  Your bike probably had a head light when it was new.  Check the wiring cable going to the frame stem.  You could have a GS or MC model.  They were basically the same except for electrics and lights.

Your bike looks to be in fairly good condition, not much wear on the tank & the exhaust pipe does not appear to be damaged.  Generally, these are good signs that the bike wasn't beat hard.

Good luck on your project.

Tony

Tony, You was right! There is lighting wiring under tank. Apperently this is enduro bike.

Andrew
^^^^^^^^^^^
197? KTM MC175
2006 Husky TE/SM 510
2004 Zuki V-Strom 1000
Title: My new project bike KTM MC 175cc
Post by: tofriedel on July 26, 2006, 09:33:46 PM
Andrew,

Maybe??  KTM used whatever parts that were plentiful when bikes were built.  It may be an MC and they only had ignition systems for GS when your bike was built.  GS models had a loop frame extending past the seat area.  But, at some point someone may have replaced the 250 engine with the 175.  Your guess is as good as mine.

Tony
Title: My new project bike KTM MC 175cc
Post by: motogon on July 27, 2006, 10:55:50 AM
What air filter I need? Is UNI filter NU 14021ST will fit?

Thanks,

Andrew
^^^^^^^^^^^
197? KTM MC175
2006 Husky TE/SM 510
2004 Zuki V-Strom 1000
Title: My new project bike KTM MC 175cc
Post by: DKWRACER on July 27, 2006, 11:33:34 AM
Hi Andrew, Al Buehner has the proper No-Toil air filter for the air box that you have, you will also need the round cage that fits inside the filter.Your bike also appears to have a Lectron carburator which can be a benefit if in good enough condition to rebuild as does meter the fuel quite nice. Your frame appears to be MC5 (MX) style with the small mx fender mounted to the underside of the seat. To make it a GS as stated earlier. you should have the rear frame loop behind the seat.....In any case, IMHO, a 175  Lectron equipped engine in an MC5 frame is a very potent item, esp. at sea level....I think I would bring that one back to life.
Adios, Tom Brosius
Title: My new project bike KTM MC 175cc
Post by: motogon on July 28, 2006, 03:37:17 PM
What is that rear shocks? They work but bushings dryed out and falling appart. [V]

Andrew
^^^^^^^^^^^
197? KTM MC175
2006 Husky TE/SM 510
2004 Zuki V-Strom 1000
Title: My new project bike KTM MC 175cc
Post by: DKWRACER on July 28, 2006, 05:26:26 PM
Hi Andrew! Your rear shocks appear to be older but period Works Performance shocks which are an added bonus. Works can rebuild and install new bushings, their address is posted in AHRMA Vintage Views on-line or in print.
Tom Brosius
Title: My new project bike KTM MC 175cc
Post by: motogon on August 01, 2006, 09:00:28 AM
Tom,

I seen on your website some paint colors mentioned. Do you know what color # or name of color used for silver frame? Can you recomend any specific paint?

Thanks,

Andrew

P.S. I don't think I need repaint frame completely, may be just some touch ups.

Andrew
^^^^^^^^^^^
1976 KTM MC5 175
2006 Husky TE/SM 510
2004 Zuki V-Strom 1000
Title: My new project bike KTM MC 175cc
Post by: Chakka on August 01, 2006, 10:44:10 AM
Try PJ1 Paint, the color is KTM Silver Grey. Its a dead on match. If you can't get it locally try this link, I've ordered with good success from them.

http://www.ktmcyclehutt.com/ktmstore/hardparts/paints_coatings.htm

Chris
Title: My new project bike KTM MC 175cc
Post by: motogon on August 04, 2006, 08:56:24 AM
Couple more questions:
1. Amount of oil in transmittion?
2. Any special recommendation on oil used?
3. I need rubber boot between carb and air filter box. I have Lectron carb - 70mm connection diameter. Air filter box outlet diameter ~ 72mm. Any ideas?

Thanks in advance!

Andrew
^^^^^^^^^^^
1976 KTM MC5 175
2006 Husky TE/SM 510
2004 Zuki V-Strom 1000
Title: My new project bike KTM MC 175cc
Post by: John E on August 04, 2006, 09:10:30 AM
You really want to start something, don't you? :) Gear oil really starts things flying.
But Tom Penton told me: two quarts of ATF.
Good enough for me.

JE
Title: My new project bike KTM MC 175cc
Post by: motogon on August 04, 2006, 09:25:46 AM
ATF????

Andrew
^^^^^^^^^^^
1976 KTM MC5 175
2006 Husky TE/SM 510
2004 Zuki V-Strom 1000
Title: My new project bike KTM MC 175cc
Post by: tofriedel on August 04, 2006, 10:20:50 AM
Automatic Transmission Fluid

Tony
Title: My new project bike KTM MC 175cc
Post by: Dennis Jones on August 04, 2006, 10:52:36 AM
If you use the search feature at the top right of this page you can find more info on oil than than you can digest. I constantly use the search when working on my bikes.

Dennis Jones
Title: My new project bike KTM MC 175cc
Post by: motogon on August 04, 2006, 12:40:26 PM
How about my other question:
I need rubber boot between carb and air filter box. I have Lectron carb - 70mm connection diameter. Air filter box outlet diameter ~ 72mm. Any ideas?


Andrew
^^^^^^^^^^^
1976 KTM MC5 175
2006 Husky TE/SM 510
2004 Zuki V-Strom 1000
Title: My new project bike KTM MC 175cc
Post by: John E on August 05, 2006, 10:51:22 AM
Try OzKTM for rubber parts;

home.iprimus.com.au/hyrockpk/index1.htm

...if Al Buehner doesn't have it.

JE
Title: My new project bike KTM MC 175cc
Post by: motogon on August 16, 2006, 08:28:30 PM
Quotequote:Originally posted by Chakka

Try PJ1 Paint, the color is KTM Silver Grey. Its a dead on match. If you can't get it locally try this link, I've ordered with good success from them.

http://www.ktmcyclehutt.com/ktmstore/hardparts/paints_coatings.htm

Chris
What I need to do to prepare surface for painting? Is sanding enough? Any recomendation?

Andrew
^^^^^^^^^^^
1976 KTM MC5 175
2006 Husky TE/SM 510
2004 Zuki V-Strom 1000
Title: My new project bike KTM MC 175cc
Post by: Chakka on August 16, 2006, 10:51:15 PM
Andrew,

I always sandblast the frame before painting it. The old powdercoat finish is tough as nails and if its scratched up as most are its really hard to get an even surface. The sandblasting not only takes care of that but also eliminates the 30 years of gunk, dirt, oild oil that accumulates in every crevis. After sandblast I prime with PJ1 or Krylon and spray the silver gray.

Chris
Title: My new project bike KTM MC 175cc
Post by: tooclose racing on May 27, 2015, 10:32:26 PM
Hi Guys -  for a lark, I searched "MC 175" and found the string you are looking at now.  Low and behold, my good friend (from across the political aisle...) Gary Ellis was offering his advice and counsel to another POGGER back in 2006.

Deja Vu, my friends.

It's 2015, he's still alive (really, he's not THAT old) and he has just built me an MC5 175 with PVL ignition, an NOS 34mm Lectron carb sourced from Mr. Al Buehner (thanks again Al...), fresh DC plastics, Mini-Hi Renthals, and a pair of Rod Gorzny-refurbished Zoke shocks. I've left out the TONS of elbow grease and late nights Gary put into this BTW.  Did KTM build 1976 MC5 175's?  Not according to Gary, but they were built in 1977.  Sorry- I just like the 76 graphics better.  But enough - check out the curves on this Lassy:

(https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7751/17559620933_4da993554f_z.jpg)

Mr. Mike Winter (and friends) are helping me get this little doggie to Unadilla for next week's XC race.  Almost hate to get her dirty. But I will.  [:p]

Thanks, Gary.
Title: My new project bike KTM MC 175cc
Post by: 454MRW on May 28, 2015, 08:45:06 AM
I attempted to put a 7 fin (large fin) engine in a 76 MC-5 125 frame, which is the same frame used for 125 & 175, and found that a significant amount of grinding was necessary on the cylinder head for the exhaust  pipe to clear. The only production 76 175 was the GS or more commonly known Cross Country model, and it had the large fin 7 fin engine. At least there is no mention of a 175 option in the 76 MC-5 chassis manual. The more race oriented 6 fin 175 was introduced into regular production in 77, so the clearance issue and the performance designed for motocross improvement may have been the deciding factors in waiting for the 77 model to make production 175 MC5's. There may have been some one off MC-5 bikes built for the factory racers in 76, but I haven't seen any. Mike

Michael R. Winter
I enjoy rebuilding and appreciating Pentons!
1974 250 HS Pentons-1980 KTM 175-400'S
1975 Can Am 175 TNT & 77 250 Black Widow
1979 Husqvarna OR390
1976-78 RM & 77-79 PE Suzuki's
1974 CR250M 07 CR125R 79 CR250R
Title: My new project bike KTM MC 175cc
Post by: Mick Milakovic on May 28, 2015, 08:37:17 PM
So what about the fit of a 250?  Gary is rebuilding my 250 motor right now and I'm going to put it in what I believe is a 76 frame.  Will it fit?

Mick
Title: My new project bike KTM MC 175cc
Post by: Dave Withrow on May 28, 2015, 09:42:17 PM
Probably a great resource for info on the 76MC models is Mike Lenz.  He raced a pre production 250 or 400 in the Florida Winter series......great stories

Big Dave
Title: My new project bike KTM MC 175cc
Post by: 454MRW on May 28, 2015, 11:16:44 PM
All KTM 125-400 engines will actually fit in all 76-77 MC5 frames, just use the 6 fin engine on a 175, and the only thing difference I can tell is the 125/175 frames have a mid mounted exhaust mount on the right hand side beside the airbox just in front of the right hand shock mount that will have to be removed to fit a 250 or 400 pipe in there, and you would need to add a right rear exhaust mount. I found the 125 frame to be a tight fit when adding a 79-early 80 aluminum swingarm, which required doing a little grinding on the rear of the engine cases for clearance, but a stock swingarm works fine. If you are considering installing a 400, I would add the lower engine mounts in a frame without them or vibration will be worse and wear the other engine mount bosses on the engine cases. Mike
**I corrected my statement about the 175 to a 6 fin engine.**

Michael R. Winter
I enjoy rebuilding and appreciating Pentons!
1974 250 HS Pentons-1980 KTM 175-400'S
1975 Can Am 175 TNT & 77 250 Black Widow
1979 Husqvarna OR390
1976-78 RM & 77-79 PE Suzuki's
1974 CR250M 07 CR125R 79 CR250R
Title: My new project bike KTM MC 175cc
Post by: tooclose racing on June 04, 2015, 03:47:21 PM
Thanks to Gary Ellis, Mike Winter, and Eric Taylor out of Michigan - this MC5 175 is on its way to Unadilla.  Heck it might already be there!

We'll try and provide an XC update from the "Thrilla at Unadilla" before weekend is over.  Time for me to throw the Jackpiner (ooh-ooh-ooh-hoo, Jackie Blue!), the MC5 250, a TTL, the kitchen sink, baby, bath water, and other items of interest into my trailer and get ready to go!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v31wwyteRqo