I just purchased a 1973 and 1974 Six days that are going to require alot of attention. I started looking over my parts and my attention came to the tires. My question is what is eveyone doing for tires? Are you using the new style tires? Or are you all trying to use period correct tires? Thank you all in advance.
Doug Wade
Lavergne Tn
I try to stay with period tires myself. I believe they work best on the older bikes as well as look proper. Piston port small bores need to spin a bit off the corners to get up into the powerband. I suggest either 350X18 or 400X18 tires. On the front you can use a Pirelli MT16 if you want the best or you can use Kenda K257D front tires or Cheng Shin C755 front tire. All look similar to the old Motocross Enduro Metzeler tire. I like the Pirelli the best and the Kenda Second best. I think the C/S looks good but the rubber is too soft and squirrely.
On the rear you can go with the Cheng Shin C755 350X18 which looks pretty good and is similar pattern to the old Metzeler. The 4.10X18 is too short a tire and about the same width as the 350 so it isn't the same as a 400X18. I prefer the Cheng Shin C183A tires. Similar design to the old Barum and is a full profile tire like the oldies. Just enough traction too. It will work well. I use them on all my small bores. Hodaka, Hercules, DKW, Honda, Kawasaki, Zündapp and Pentons ( 100 & 125 ). If you prefer a bit larger tire the C183A also comes in a 400X18 which is of the correct size and isn't too aggressive a pattern for the bikes. You can lower air pressure if you want more traction or up the pressure if you want less. I suggest no bigger than the 350X18 on 100cc Berkshires, and your choice of the 350X18 or the C183A 400X18 on the 125cc Six-Day . Oh, On 175cc or bigger Jackpiners or Hare Scramblers, you can use the MT16 400X18 ( now called 110/100X18 ).
Cher'o,
Dwight
Dwight Rudder
7 time ISDT / E medalist
8 time National Enduro Class Champion.
People PLEASE search the past postings when you have a question as this topic has come up several times as have the ANSWERS or opinions of the members. It just drives me crazy(not that it takes much)that we discuss the same stuff AGAIN and AGAIN. Search tires. Work a bit for an answer don't just first pick brains, PLEASE!
The synopsis of this debate always spins around whether you want to look the part or get the best traction. If you are MXing the Dunlop 756 is the weapon of choice for traction on a wide variety of surfaces. The Cheng Shin looks like an old Metzler but no matter what Dwight believes they pretty much suck on an MX track at speed. Just my opinion and the opinion of the VAST majority of modern MXers.
Larry P
I aint touchin dis one! Just enjoying having my 6 Days spread across the basement floor and getting ready for a new season. What a great country that we have all these options!
Depends on what part of the country you are from, upper mid-west with black/loamy/traction type soil, Pirelli MT 44 front, Michelin S-12 in the rear. JMHO
Rocket
Rod, what about Arkansas RR 07, master?..... grasshopper?(JP175)....;)
Quotequote:Originally posted by Larry Perkins
The synopsis of this debate always spins around whether you want to look the part or get the best traction. If you are MXing the Dunlop 756 is the weapon of choice for traction on a wide variety of surfaces. The Cheng Shin looks like an old Metzler but no matter what Dwight believes they pretty much suck on an MX track at speed. Just my opinion and the opinion of the VAST majority of modern MXers.
Larry P
Larry, You miss the point here. We aren't talking about modern MXers are we ? I believe I have won several MX events on my Cheng Shin C183 tires. The idea is to get the right amount of traction, not too much. If you are racing a modern MX bike then by all means use a modern tire. But don't knock the old school stuff if you haven't tried it.
Just my opionion here. So don't shoot me for it. You can use what you like. I will use what I like. I was just pointing out that there is more to my reasoning than just looks. Oh, I use Pirelli MT16s front and rear even on my Modern KTM 525EXC. Look dated but work much better than most tires out there.
Cher'o,
Dwight
Dwight Rudder
7 time ISDT / E medalist
8 time National Enduro Class Champion.
Dwight
What type of tires do you use on your Puchs? I know ther may be a clearance problem with these bikes. I still have the 30 year old tires on mine and need some fresh rubber.
Quotequote:Originally posted by desmond197
Dwight
What type of tires do you use on your Puchs? I know ther may be a clearance problem with these bikes. I still have the 30 year old tires on mine and need some fresh rubber.
I use the C183A Cheng Shin. This is a Barum copy. 400X18 on the 175 and 350X18 on the 125. The 400X18 is a pretty meaty tire but a tread pattern that leans toward hardpack, so you can get the right wheel spin off the corner. Play with the air pressure to get the most out of this tire. Works pretty darn good on these bikes in my opinion even on grass with the correct air pressure.
Cher'o,
Dwight
Dwight Rudder
7 time ISDT / E medalist
8 time National Enduro Class Champion.
Dwight,
No disrespect intended but I think you are missing the point. Traction is a matter of physics. Physics does not recognize old bikes and new bikes. It is based on compound and tread pattern. Rod is right in that different terrain demands different tires but never on that short list will any go fast racer in MX old or new have Cheng Shin on their list. My statement on the 756 Dunlop being the number one weapon of choice for MXers across the country is a true statement. It is a falacy to believe that old bikes require different tires. It is just physics!
You say that the Cheng Shins work pretty darn good. When was the last time you Really railed a motocross track? Cheng Shins in the real world suck for traction when pushed. They break loose, wash out, and roll over from weak sidewalls. They are cheap and look like old tires that were good. Cheng Shins are not those tires.
The Pirelli MT16 is a good off-road tire and does well in most off-road conditions short of real muddy but it too is not that good of a MX tire. Is there really ever too much traction? I rarely say man that tire hooks up too good.
Of course my MAIN POINT that you did not get is that this gets debated again and again. I only gave my tire opinion to give everyone a synopsis of this old argument so we would not have to do this AGAIN! The argument just gets rehashed and I wish people would read about it in the past instead of it getting said again and again. I respect your opinion and I know you believe what you say I just don't think it is as advanced as tires have become. We will probably always disagree on this I just don't understand why it has to BORINGLY happen again and again. Rehash-Rehash!
Larry P
Quotequote:Originally posted by DKWRACER
Rod, what about Arkansas RR 07, master?..... grasshopper?(JP175)....;)
I'll be there.
Rod
My apoligys to everyone. I did not intend to upset anyone. I will in the future search archives. It was one of those brain burps. Thank you all for your opinions. You all are held in great respect.
Doug Wade
Lavergne Tn
Doug you have no need to apologize. There are no dumb questions here. Take it from me, I've asked some hum dingers over the past couple of years. I think we realize Penton motorcycles are passion, and anybody that shares this passion is one of us.
So have fun with your Penton, ask as many questions as you want. Use the archives (they help alot) don't be afraid to piggy back someone elses question. But by all means have fun and enjoy.
Rod Whitman
Omaha, Nebraska
1972 Six Day (Rider)
1972 Six Day (Project)
A lot of good points, the biggest hurdle is how and where are you going to ride it. If you're racing I'd go with Larry's choices, if you're just chasing rabbits around in the woods, something a little less pricey is fine. If you're going for the "look" then you have to go for the pattern tire. If you're riding alot, you may have to try a couple of tires to see what works best for you. There's alot of variables, so don't be afraid to try a couple different ones on for size. [ just like shoes ].
I'll second the question.....what's best for the RR '07? Is it rocky, soft, hardpack, clay, black & slick, all the above? I hope the soil is better than Park Hills as it'll be my first since 2002 at Park Hills.
Frank
Once again thank you all.
Doug Wade
Lavergne Tn
For New Blaine RR 2007- Super Motard Tires. Just kidding, my memory of New Blain 2005 is of a lot of very dusty gravel roads and blacktop. What trails they did have were very nice hard pack and semi rocky. Just not enough of them.
For pure ease of riding you can't go wrong with Michelin S12's. They last a long time and stick to the ground like mud sticks to the bottom of your fenders.
Dennis Jones
Quotequote:Originally posted by Dennis Jones
For New Blaine RR 2007- Super Motard Tires. Just kidding, my memory of New Blain 2005 is of a lot of very dusty gravel roads and blacktop. What trails they did have were very nice hard pack and semi rocky. Just not enough of them.
For pure ease of riding you can't go wrong with Michelin S12's. They last a long time and stick to the ground like mud sticks to the bottom of your fenders.
Dennis Jones
I agree, I have been riding my modern bike and my Jackpiner here in Arkansas for several years on S-12's with good results. I'm not saying that there isn't a better tire out there for this event but I have no reason to switch form the S-12s. I probably don't push a tire near it's limits as Dwight and some of the other REAL riders out there do, but the S-12s fill my "tire fun factor" need.
Pete Petrick
Penton Jackpiner
Doug - I just wanted to thank you for the tip you gave me on that KX80, but it wasn't the one stolen from me. Thanks for keeping an eye out for a brother :)!
Mick Milakovic
Lebanon, Indiana
Just what are the dates of the qualifier and reunion ride for 2007?
Rod Whitman
Omaha, Nebraska
1972 Six Day (Rider)
1972 Six Day (Project)
Quotequote:Originally posted by thrownchain
A lot of good points, the biggest hurdle is how and where are you going to ride it. If you're racing I'd go with Larry's choices, if you're just chasing rabbits around in the woods, something a little less pricey is fine. If you're going for the "look" then you have to go for the pattern tire. If you're riding alot, you may have to try a couple of tires to see what works best for you. There's alot of variables, so don't be afraid to try a couple different ones on for size. [ just like shoes ].
I think tires are a lot like premix, religion, and politics. All are a great topic for when the board is a bit slow[:p]
With more than one bike in the stable I tend to lean toward economy in my choices. I don't ride my bikes on a weekly basis and the only time my bikes "rail" anything is on a trailer.........
I have found a certain freedom in my Spodliness in that I don't have get all caught up in wringing out that extra bit of performance out of my machines. I doubt there will ever come a day that I get all that is there out of a bike. [I do feel a certain amount of disclaimer is justified about a certain Berkshire at this point, however. Every man needs his Grail Quest, lol.]
Now I shall go ponder this concept of "Spinning" the rear wheel.:D
Tony
For me it is all about safety. When I first dug out an old Penton from the barn and went to Daytona to ride the AHRMA MX I used tires that had the "look" on the bike. After the first moto they watered the track and my tires with the "look" did not have the grip and I went down. Before I had spit all of the sand from my mouth I decided that I needed to approach this vintage racing from a little different perspective.
I now use a modern full face helmet, modern knee guards, modern chest protector, ect, ect, I am an old man, not a kid, and I hope to ride for a few more years, if modern compound tires and improved shocks can help keep me in the saddle as my eyesight and reflexes start to let me down, I will surely use them.
Paul
For me on my GS6 175 I use a S12 on front and a M12 on rear. Rick Smits has M12 for a good price, 400x18 for $40.00 I have been running these for two years. The M12 tire is a little harder compond than a S12. Gary Ellis
Quotequote:Originally posted by Frenfroe
I'll second the question.....what's best for the RR '07? Is it rocky, soft, hardpack, clay, black & slick, all the above? I hope the soil is better than Park Hills as it'll be my first since 2002 at Park Hills.
Frank
All of the above with minimal soft. It was very friendly last year.
Dwight
Dwight Rudder
7 time ISDT / E medalist
8 time National Enduro Class Champion.
Quotequote:Originally posted by wfopete
Quotequote:Originally posted by Dennis Jones
For New Blaine RR 2007- Super Motard Tires. Just kidding, my memory of New Blain 2005 is of a lot of very dusty gravel roads and blacktop. What trails they did have were very nice hard pack and semi rocky. Just not enough of them.
For pure ease of riding you can't go wrong with Michelin S12's. They last a long time and stick to the ground like mud sticks to the bottom of your fenders.
Dennis Jones
You should try Pirelli MT16 on your modern bike and on your Jackpiner in your area. Works absolutely great. Good reports on KTMtalk.com also. Of course I recommended them but they have feedback on KTMtalk.
Where I recommend the C/S tires is on bikes you can't get high quality tires for anymore.
Dwight
I agree, I have been riding my modern bike and my Jackpiner here in Arkansas for several years on S-12's with good results. I'm not saying that there isn't a better tire out there for this event but I have no reason to switch form the S-12s. I probably don't push a tire near it's limits as Dwight and some of the other REAL riders out there do, but the S-12s fill my "tire fun factor" need.
Pete Petrick
Penton Jackpiner
Dwight Rudder
7 time ISDT / E medalist
8 time National Enduro Class Champion.
Quotequote:Originally posted by cubfan1968
Just what are the dates of the qualifier and reunion ride for 2007?
Rod Whitman
Omaha, Nebraska
1972 Six Day (Rider)
1972 Six Day (Project)
Last I heard from a committee member was OCT. 26-28 , 2007 New Blaine, ARK.
Dwight
Dwight Rudder
7 time ISDT / E medalist
8 time National Enduro Class Champion.
When Penton started making the Woodsman, did they change out the trials tires for knobbys on all of them or just some? If they did where did all the trials tires go. I sure would like to find a set? Anyone sitting on a set?
My Woodsman has knobbys. Seems to me when they sold them some got the trials seat and fenders. Did they ever give out the tires?
Terry Laible