I have been looking at several pictures of the Penton trial bikes at this site,(I have never seen one in Sweden) but the frame and the wheels looks very much the same as my Dalesman scout 1973 with Sachs 125cc engine. I wonder if somebody knows if they,(Wassel and Dalesman) were related in some way?
Mats from Sweden
Matt,
Ted Wassell built both bikes along with the Mitsubishi Tyran. He also exported bikes all over the world. Their business was mainly motorcycle accessories. I hope this helps.
Ron Carbaugh
Kerrville, Texas
Thank you Ron! I really apreciate the information :D Some years ago I tried to ask the old Swedish dealer about the bike, but he could not remember more than that he imported 6 Dalesmans in all. He also told me that he had a hard time selling them as they could not compete with the Pentons, Monarks and the Husqys.
Do you have any idea of how many bikes he made [?]
Mats from Sweden
Mats,
I do not know the break down of how many Dalesmans were produced since they made several different models under different names. I would say that I have heard that a total of less than 2000 units were made. This included units sold under the following names...Penton, Tyran, Wassell and Dalesman just to name what I remember. I think it is good to study the different models that Wassell produced because it is easier to identfy parts when you see them being traded or for sale. I am not an expert on Wassell so maybe others will join in and help with more knowledge. I hope this helps.
Ron Carbaugh
In the book Classic British Two-Stroke Trials Bikes by Don Morely, it states that Peter Bolton owned Dalesman Competition Products. Bolton hired Peter Edmondson to head the company and Jim Lee to build the frames. When Dalesman closed up shop both Edmondson and Lee went to work for Ted Wassell. The book states that much of the Wassell trials machine technology was inherited from Dalesman through Lee and Edmondson. Lee was the frame builder for Wassell and Edmondson was the development chief.
Hope this helps.
Paul
Thank you Ron and Paul!
I will try to find that book.
Mats from Sweden
Mats,
Paul is corret....Dalesman was manufacturing in 1970 and was closed down in that time frame (1970/71?). Wassell hired Edmondson and who brought on board Jim Lee and they developed the Wassell prototype in early 1972. It was to be powered by Sachs which Ted Wassell and Peter Edmondson had secured with a contract with Sachs in late 1971. Interestingly enough Ted Wassell was really only after building bikes for export out of England since he had seen early on in the 1960's the tremendous potential of the USA after Moto Cross had been introduced to this market. Sorry for the incomplete or incorrect information on my previous post. [B)]
Ron Carbaugh
Mats and Ron,
This book has a lot of info. It states that originally Wassell was using the BSA Bantam 175cc engines in its trials machines untill they became to hard to obtain, some 50 BSA powered machines were produced before they decided to use the easier to obtain Sachs engines.
I am sure that different sources may give some slightly different facts, but I find the history of these machines quite interesting.
If I remember right Bob Ginder told me one time that he has a Bantam powered Wassell.
Paul
Paul,
I probably need to do more reading and less listening to the tall Texas stories told by some of the older racer (I am just an Old Racer not older ;) ). Bantam engines were cheap and easy to buy since BSA was tailing off production of the production of this model. Actually Ted Wassell built another prototype besides the Bantam powered trails bike ( which later went into production ) . It was MX powered by a guess what...Puch 125 engine.[:p] It is fun to see how all this progress into including the Penton Mudlark.
Ron Carbaugh
(http://www.lindstrom-mx.com/forumbilder/dalesmanliten.jpg)
Thanks again! After looking in some old Swedish motorcycle magazines I believe that my Dalesman are manufactured 1971-72 although its registered 1973 in Sweden. I can remember one Dalesman Puch from my area in Sweden. It was the 4 speed 125cc engine.
This is the only picture i have from back then, 1974, me practicing MX on my Dalesman [8D] Unfortunately it was not long until it started to brake down, the frame was not very reliable.
Mats from Sweden
Pauls info pretty much goes along with most of the info I have gathered in 10 years of fooling with the Penton/Wassell machines.
The early Dalesman trials bikes used a Puch 125 4 speed (I am in the process of restoring one of these) and the last ones used a Sachs 125 and looked almost identical to the Wassell
Bruce Carman now owns that Wassell Bantam and has it restored to pristine condition.
The World of Motorcycles (a 22 volume set) volume 17 has the best account of the Wassell factory I have read.
Dennis Jones
Thank you Dennis! I tried to mail back to you, but it doesn´t seem to go true the server´. I am very intrested in thoose pictures as I would need lot´s of inspiration rebuilding my Dalesman, which is not in very good condition.
Mats from Sweden
Post your email address here or send it to me at
[email protected] and I will send them over to you.
Dennis Jones
My e mail adress are
[email protected]Mats Sjöblom
Mats from Sweden
There were about 2000 Dalesman bikes produced. Most of the bikes came to the USA. Jeckel Industries imported about 1500 of these bikes. The enduro model with the Sachs motor is the most common and succesful of these bikes. The Dalesman 125 Enduros did well in New England Enduro's in the Early 1970's. Some of the bikes even had front disk brakes. The MX bikes with the Puch motors were designed in part by Joel Robert. He was Belgian distributor of the bikes. I have a Dalesman Enduro and a Dalesman MX with the Puch motor. The Dalesman used Metal Profiles forks and hubs just like the Sprite,Wassel, Tyran and Penton Wassel Bikes. Dalesman Enduros competed in the Isle of Man ISDT and the Dalton ISDT.
Mats, When trying to send the pictures one time I got an error message, and the second time I got an error message but it also said it was sent. Let me know if you got them.
Dennis Jones
Thank you Dennis i got them cool pictures! I was very inspired, working with the Dalesman frame. It will soon be ready for painting :D
I wish all of you Poggers a nice christmas and a happy new year!
Mats from Sweden
Merry Christmas And Happy New Year to you too, Mats
Lew Mayer
I have now in my possession a Dalesman Scout frame and a spare Sachs motor. I found this little thread thru Google-should have come here in the first place. Wondering if there is some original running gear out there. Please bear in mind I'm just tyre kicking at the moment as my Steel Tanker is my next project. Cheers Bill
Bill,
I have a Dalesman enduro and have been keeping an eye out for about 5 years and can't say I've seen 1 item worth purchasing. It's obviously a very hard bike to find parts for.
From what I have seen these were only imported into the U.S. by one dealer in Glens Falls N.Y. My bike still has their dealer sticker on the body.
Good luck and I hope you have better luck than I have had.
Dan.
my dealer back then was chuck bohler, he rode a dalesman at the isle of mann for ron jeckel the importer,won a silver metal. broke a shock on day six. he said he did not like the bike very much
dennis l.brown
Yes, Ron Jeckel is the name that's on the dealer sticker. It was a few years ago that I remember seeing an old post from his son and he was trying to find a restored Dalesman. I don't remember what year the post was from or where it was posted.
Another brand for history from a by-gone day. Long live the Sachs motor...
chucks dalesman had a 175 puch engine I do not know what ever happened to it
dennis l.brown
Thanks for the insight guys. Remember I'm down in Oz so I guess it will be a little harder here. Guess I will have to try as we say Pommy land.
Cheers Bill
I have a 1971 greeves pathfinder and they were similar to the dalesman.175 puch engine.bike runs very well, puch engine is a good one I put in a mzb ignition,made it much better.it should have bigger forks the baby cerianis.are to small and good shocks would help.i ave done ok on the bike for vintage type enduros
dennis l.brown