AHRMA has in my opinion screwed one of our members and blessed another one. Chad Danik and Ted Landers were tied going into the final cross-country. Now all other cross country races are one hour events with a clear(most of the time) winner in each class. AHRMA in their infinite wisdom chose to make the ISDT reunion the final cross country. It is a two day event and so AHRMA decides that if you get a gold you get first place points, silver second place points, and bronze third place points. Chad beat Ted in the scoring at the ISDT reunion but both of them recieved a Gold which left them still tied. AHRMA's tie breaker gives the nod to the older rider which is Ted. So Ted becomes the overall winner on the season by getting the same points as Chad even though Chad clearly beat him.
Both of these guys are friends of mine but my opinion is Ted was blessed with a gimme and Chad got screwed.
Thanks AHRMA!
Yes this is correct. I would like to point out that Ted was at the Cross Country event at Casey, IL. Chad did not attend. The race was cancelled due to rain. Had this event taken place or points given for being there, Ted would clearly be the winner.
If a frog had wings...
In auto racing the 1st place trophy goes to the driver who has the most 1st place wins. I don't know how that would work out between these two. I do believe it is a better way to decied.
If a chicken had lips...
GrandPaul,
Host of the Vintage Bikes forum at //www.delphi.com/oldbikes and the Triumph Bonnevilles Forum at //www.delphi.com/grandpaul
You know... its hard to find anyone outside of us offroad, enduro and isdt/e guys who understand/understood how you can get a gold medal and still not win your class. Tell somebody you were third in class and still on gold (or fiftyfifth and barely on silver) and you'll get a confused look!
The folks at AHRMA probably don't understand it either and that might be because they never played our game. A few calls and letters to David Boydston (480-464-7898) might do wonders.
It is evident from Larry's post that Reunion Ride entrants were aware of the event scoring rules when they signed up. Are Chad and/or Ted griping about the outcome...Or did they just have a great weekend of fun with a little competition thrown in?
Jeff DeBell
ACTUALLY ,, here in the midwest in Auto racing,, ( and the state I live in has the highest # of dirt tracks per capita ) the season winner is determined by points earned,, a guy can finish 2nd or 3rd a lot,, run real real consistently in the top,, never miss a show,, and win the season points,, is rare,, but could happen ....
Using this formula ,, the winner would be reversed,, I think most forms of racing are that way ... the points system is there to let you know how you did overall,not simply if you won a bunch o' races, but I think a good point was made when it was said " Are Chad and/or Ted griping ?? "
ACTUAKLLY WHAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN SAID WAS :if something needs fixed so this doesnt happen again,, lets let someone know so it can be fixed .... If you had a broken shock mount or something on the swingarm that was knocking your master link off,, would you replace the master link and l;eave the arm messed up ,,, or would you fix the arm so the problem didnt keep happening ???
By the way Larry,, it was nice to say Hi for a sec. in Mo and put a face w/ the name !
Yes this is correct. I would like to point out that Ted was at the Cross Country event at Casey, IL. Chad did not attend. The race was cancelled due to rain. Had this event taken place or points given for being there, Ted would clearly be the winner.
If a frog had wings...
In auto racing the 1st place trophy goes to the driver who has the most 1st place wins. I don't know how that would work out between these two. I do believe it is a better way to decied.
If a chicken had lips...
GrandPaul,
Host of the Vintage Bikes forum at //www.delphi.com/oldbikes and the Triumph Bonnevilles Forum at //www.delphi.com/grandpaul
You know... its hard to find anyone outside of us offroad, enduro and isdt/e guys who understand/understood how you can get a gold medal and still not win your class. Tell somebody you were third in class and still on gold (or fiftyfifth and barely on silver) and you'll get a confused look!
The folks at AHRMA probably don't understand it either and that might be because they never played our game. A few calls and letters to David Boydston (480-464-7898) might do wonders.
It is evident from Larry's post that Reunion Ride entrants were aware of the event scoring rules when they signed up. Are Chad and/or Ted griping about the outcome...Or did they just have a great weekend of fun with a little competition thrown in?
Jeff DeBell
ACTUALLY ,, here in the midwest in Auto racing,, ( and the state I live in has the highest # of dirt tracks per capita ) the season winner is determined by points earned,, a guy can finish 2nd or 3rd a lot,, run real real consistently in the top,, never miss a show,, and win the season points,, is rare,, but could happen ....
Using this formula ,, the winner would be reversed,, I think most forms of racing are that way ... the points system is there to let you know how you did overall,not simply if you won a bunch o' races, but I think a good point was made when it was said " Are Chad and/or Ted griping ?? "
ACTUAKLLY WHAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN SAID WAS :if something needs fixed so this doesnt happen again,, lets let someone know so it can be fixed .... If you had a broken shock mount or something on the swingarm that was knocking your master link off,, would you replace the master link and l;eave the arm messed up ,,, or would you fix the arm so the problem didnt keep happening ???
By the way Larry,, it was nice to say Hi for a sec. in Mo and put a face w/ the name !
Actually Jeff I did not find out how it would be scored until after the event. I had asked people from day one when it was announced as an AHRMA cross country how it would be scored and was told it would be decided soon. I asked multiple times. I even got jumped on for asking you here on the POG.
The night before the ISDT reunion it was announced that it would be covered at the riders meeting but come that time it wasn't or I somehow missed it. Apparently some riders knew before the event but not me. I would have tried to point out to someone the flaw in the idea which has caused this misfortune.
I had a great time and I think most did. That does not take away from AHRMA's bonehead idea and lack of thinking it out previous to deciding the event would also be an AHRMA cross-country. The event was contrary to scoring and time outlined in AHRMA's own rulebook which apparently can be changed mid-stream. Please don't take this personal it was not the event. It simply boils down to AHRMA cross country and a two day are two different things and with two different principles. I will ride it again next year but not as an AHRMA cross country.
I stand by my first statement. Congrats to Ted but Chad in my eyes won the title. Chad is a good kid and probably doesn't care but I was never good at not pointing out what I thought was unfair.
None the less I LOVE ALL YOU GUYS. Ride On!
I don't know the best way to combine the ISDTRR into the X-Country series, but Dick Mann made the decision and I'll tell you from personal experience that what he says generally goes. It is obvious that there was some serious miscommunication (and not just about the scoring) and there are several camps of participants who have differing viewpoints on what the ISDTRR should be and how it should be run. It's been a learning curve each year, and I wish we could take the best components of each year's Ride to make an outstanding event that nobody would take issue with. There have been a lot of great ideas tossed around here and on the Vinduro page, but there's no ISDTRR committee other than Bugsy to do anything about them.
I am going to propose to Bugsy that a steering committee be formed and at least some basic guidelines put down in black and white so that if a club wishes to do the ISDTRR in the future, they will have something to go by other than "he said, she said, etc." from past years. My vision of the steering committee would include Bugsy (since he is the only founder left & AHRMA trustee), Dave Mungenast (industry horsepower, ISDT vet, vintage enthusiast), a POG member (perhaps Paul Danik or Doug Wilford...ISDT vets and avid vintage dudes), a Vinduro member (to represent the less competitive side, but also loves gorgeous old bikes), and perhaps an additional rep from AHRMA. I am going to propose this to Bugsy in writing and see where it goes from there, but it's pretty clear that if the event continues to grow as it has, some sort of organization will be needed. To date the event's flown by the seat of its pants. Luckily it's been pretty successful, and in spite of each year's shortcomings, people keep coming back for more.
If the steering committee proposal flies, I'll post something here so people can make their ideas/opinions known to whoever is in charge.
Just out of personal inquisitiveness, does anyone know how many entrants were signed up for X-Country points? I was thinking maybe 30% or so, but have no real idea. Not that it matters much one way or another..I was just glad so many really cool bikes were there, regardless of who brought 'em!
Lookin' forward to next year already!
Jeff DeBell