Penton Owners Group

Do you you know the Beta Alp?

(http://70.87.200.211/users/23095/images/811253864-0_thumb.jpg)

It's an italian bike with a Suzuki engine inside, the Beta Alp is an all terrain bike. Here are some links about the Beta Alp:
http://autotrader.co.uk/EDITORIAL/BIKES/REVIEWS/25812.html

http://www.behind-bars.co.uk/NewBikePages/Enduro/Beta/Alp%20200.htm

http://www.motorbikes.be/en/Beta_Alp_200_2006.aspx

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/bikereviews/searchresults/Bike-Reviews/Beta/Beta-Alp-2003-current/



We of "rugginose message board" think  that such a machine without competition claims, no modern, no aggressive and no ugly appearance, and we have developed an idea that we might suggest to the Beta Company.
Mr. Oberdan Bezzi, a bike-designer has prepared a sketch, and we would be happy if the POG members to provide us their  opinion about it.
Would you buy a beta Alp if it would look like this?   
350 cc model:
(http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/3150/betags200agexd3.jpg)

200 cc model:
(http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/2980/betags4tg8.jpg)
      
Only the appearance has changed, it remains the Alp a solid and reliable machine, good for every journey, as in every terrain.
What do you think about this?
Please, let me know your opinion!  



Maurizio from Italy

I'd at least give it a serious look. After all it resembles the XL Hondas. Parts and service would also be a factor, as alot of the "new" imports are "throw aways", and parts are non-existent. Definately a test ride.

Quotequote:Originally posted by thrownchain

I'd at least give it a serious look. After all it resembles the XL Hondas. Parts and service would also be a factor, as alot of the "new" imports are "throw aways", and parts are non-existent. Definately a test ride.

Hi Thrownchain,
Beta is an italian glorious off-road bikes company and the  200 cc and 350 cc engines are suzuki (it's very easy to find suzuki parts).
The Beta Company today:

http://www.betamotor.com/en/home

During the early 70s some Beta machines were marketed in the United States under the Premier label.
From Cycle World (december 1972), this is a beta bike sold as Premier in the Usa market:

(http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/9695/002ka0.jpg)

Brief History of the Marque:

http://www.cybermotorcycle.com/euro/brands/beta.htm

A Beta Premier 1973 Enduro at the side of a Penton:

(http://www.cybermotorcycle.com/gallery/beta/images/Beta_Premier_1973_Enduro.jpg)

Maurizio from Italy

Maurizio,

Thank you for sharing the great info on Beta bikes.  Man, I for one would LOVE to own one of the vintage-styled dual-sports.  But, are they marketable in the U.S.?  Challenges would be brand-recognition, and price, not to mention emissions and other standards.  

On the brand-name side, the bikes would be going up against established models from Honda/Kaw/Suz/Yam/KTM.  On the (low end) price side, there is the influx of small-bore Chinese dual-sports to deal with, some selling for under $1500.

Certainly, if the vintage-styled Beta dual-sport models are aggressively marketed to the appropriate, potential customers, and offered alongside of the existing product line in Beta dealerships, there is a good chance of some modest sales success.  It all depends on Beta's expectations and investment-return requirements.  Sure would be great to see them, though.  

I was also very interested to see the info on the Premier model, from back in the 70's.  I happen to own one of those bikes.  It is in excellent, original condition, but is missing some key components, most notably the lights, speedo assy, and one numberplate/sidepanel.  Do you know if any parts are available for them, in Italy?

Hi Ohioted,
send me a photo of your Beta Premier and I'll looking for the missing parts.
[email protected]

Maurizio from Italy

Hey, No jap engines in my garage. would not even consider the bike on this alone. Why couldnt you have put a KTM,Ducati (or anything but something from Japan) engine in it? TTP

Hi Paul,
I think like you about jap engines and I don't love them (I love sachs engine:D), but they work fine and are cheap.

Maurizio from Italy

I like it.  The tank and headlight shell remind me of the jawa a little bit.  For mass sale in the U.S. it coudl be tough if it doesn't look like the jap or ktm's though.  It depends on the goals of Beta I'm sure.  You might have a market with the guys that also like vintage but short of serious marketing research I of course really have no feel for it.  But, I do like it as it show signs of bikes back in our youth.  I love the italian bikes, I race SWM in the cross countries and enjoy the marque as well as the fine Penton's of course.

Keith Taylor of Italian SWM

http://midwest-swm.tripod.com/

Well, Maurizio...

I guess a Beta with a Jap engine won't work in the States, 'cause the Boys can't forget Pearl Harbour... :(

It wouldn't even help, if we propose 'em an Ancillotti - Beta Scarab 4 T, I suppose...

(http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/2412/madyellowiv3.jpg)

(http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/4237/madaluxb3.jpg)

(http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/5544/ancillottimad40he7.jpg)

Believe me, Maurizio, the only one bike that could be interesting for this guys is the new KTM designed by Oberdan Bezzi...

(http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/8145/ktm2bgs2bclassic2bsfu2bmy3.jpg)

Schöne Grüße aus Schwetzingen

(http://www.tumotoverde.com/images/comprofiler/tn2157_467abeca28dab.jpg)

There you go....BIG bore four stroke.....

The last photo would be a great seller in the US.  Hope it would be offered in 250cc 4 stroke and have a seat height for a 30" inseam, twin shock would be great also.  I just purchased an "08" 250 Husky 4 stroke TE and love the bike (fuel injection is amazing) but have to use a ladder to get on it:(

Kip, I've been using a milk crate to start and get on dirt bikes since the inseption of 12" of travel and disc brakes!!  
 Funny, the only time I "git off" is when I stop !!
 very embarrasing :(

Raymond
 Down East Pentons

Ray  I resemble "Laugh In" when I come to a stop or a "off camber" right hand turn:(

Nostalgia is fine but for me I will take modern technology anytime. My Penton is fun to play on a couple of times a year but when I am racing a real race,it is on my Yamaha WR250F.

I love how it looks.  I'd give it a very serious look, if parts distribution and service were adequate.  

Modern dirtbike asthetic design can't hold a candle to the classic lines of old school bikes, imo.  

Best of luck.
Larry


Larry Seale
I choose to ride

Quotequote:Originally posted by thrownchain

There you go....BIG bore four stroke.....

Would you prefere a 125cc. two stroke? :D

Here is Oberdan Bezzi's new sweet creature:

(http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/1455/pentongs125sfukz0xe4.jpg)

Pozdrav iz Rovinja / Saluti da Rovigno

(http://www.tumotoverde.com/images/comprofiler/tn2157_467abeca28dab.jpg)

I WANT ONE !!!!  WHATEVER IT TAKES !! that 125 needs to be in my stable.

Mike Gallagher, Camden County, NJ. - 70 x 2 + 71, 125 Steel Tankers, 72 Berkshire, 72 x 3, 73 x 2, 125-6 Day's, 74-6 Day, 73 Jackpiner, 75 - 250 H/S, 74 1/2 Mint 400

Quotequote:Originally posted by mau10

Quotequote:Originally posted by thrownchain

I'd at least give it a serious look. After all it resembles the XL Hondas. Parts and service would also be a factor, as alot of the "new" imports are "throw aways", and parts are non-existent. Definately a test ride.

Hi Thrownchain,
Beta is an italian glorious off-road bikes company and the  200 cc and 350 cc engines are suzuki (it's very easy to find suzuki parts).
The Beta Company today:

http://www.betamotor.com/en/home

During the early 70s some Beta machines were marketed in the United States under the Premier label.
From Cycle World (december 1972), this is a beta bike sold as Premier in the Usa market:

(http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/9695/002ka0.jpg)

Brief History of the Marque:

http://www.cybermotorcycle.com/euro/brands/beta.htm

A Beta Premier 1973 Enduro at the side of a Penton:

(http://www.cybermotorcycle.com/gallery/beta/images/Beta_Premier_1973_Enduro.jpg)

Maurizio from Italy

Maurizio, hi, the pic. of the Premier and Penton were taken in my backyard in 2006, they have new homes with 2 great collectors of Vintage bikes, just a little info !!!, thanks, Mike G.

Mike Gallagher, Camden County, NJ. - 70 x 2 + 71, 125 Steel Tankers, 72 Berkshire, 72 x 3, 73 x 2, 125-6 Day's, 74-6 Day, 73 Jackpiner, 75 - 250 H/S, 74 1/2 Mint 400

I think there is a market out there for a inexpensive, simple, reliable, 250cc or larger air-cooled bike that Mr. Joe average family man can put his feet on the ground easily and get on ride weekend after weekend alone or with his family/friends. The old Honda XR's come to mind. The Chinese try but they can't figure out the parts supply or reliability angles.

I don't know if the Beta is it, but it's a start.

Pete Petrick
175 Jackpiner
Slow but Good

There is a new proposal for the Beta GS 4.0, made by Oberdan Bezzi:

(http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/3928/betags40.jpg)

Do you like it?

Schöne Grüße aus Schwetzingen

(http://www.tumotoverde.com/images/comprofiler/tn2157_467abeca28dab.jpg)

I LIKE !

Dwight

One more proposal:

(http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/7766/oberdan4.jpg)

Schöne Grüße aus Schwetzingen

(http://www.tumotoverde.com/images/comprofiler/tn2157_467abeca28dab.jpg)

I searched out and found some interesting designs by Mr Bezzi... here is the link  http://tinyurl.com/lcfs4p

To find the Penton and KTM stuff go about 1/2 way down the page.. Thks Brian


Brian Taylor

I like the 50cc and 80cc Zundapps that are being produced now in Italy.  CIAO   //www.zuendapp.com

I still prefer the old air-cooled bikes. Maybe not as high tech, or able to sqeeze out the most HP, but less cost of maintence and more nostalgic. Mike

Michael R. Winter
I enjoy rebuilding and appreciating Pentons!
1974 250 HS Pentons-1980 KTM 175-400'S

This is my modern trail ride, it started out a 2005 Yamaha WR 250F, then there's the Athenas Big Bore kit 290cc, then a set of YZ 250F cams, A lot of carb work like a power now plus valve and a 2008 YZ 250F exhaust & muffler. Now lets add a Rekuse auto clutch to go with the BUTTON. I rode this for a year (1600 trail miles) and my son who buys and sells new bikes on e-bay come up with a deal for me, After selling the motor from a new 2007 WR 250F we just put my 05 big-bore in the new aluminum frame, like wow, new wheels, brakes, tires, every thing new but the engine. Wait, he also had bought a new 2008 retro white YZ 250F. Now you take off the 07 blue plastic and replace it with the retro white, paint the headlight black, relocate the ignition module and add the LED tail light under the MX fender. Also had to have a trail Tech vapor speedometer/tachometer.

Now I have a 2007 white retro WR 290F auto clutch elec button one of a kind ride. I've put over 2000 miles on this motor and have yet to have to adjust the valves. With the big bore kit you don't have to wind the WR as hard as a stock one. By the Trail Teck Tackometer I'm running around 7500 to 8500 RPMs. i don't baby this bike I ride the, well you know.  Ol Dave

(http://i628.photobucket.com/albums/uu4/dndracing/IMG_0736.jpg)

Quotequote:Originally posted by BrianTaylor

I searched out and found some interesting designs by Mr Bezzi... here is the link  http://tinyurl.com/lcfs4p

To find the Penton and KTM stuff go about 1/2 way down the page..

Perhaps I didn't explain well what I mean...

Those two bikes, the Beta, and the Ancillotti, are maybe going to be build, and I wanted to know from you guys, if you think that there is a market for stuff like that in the States! ;)

Schöne Grüße aus Schwetzingen

(http://www.tumotoverde.com/images/comprofiler/tn2157_467abeca28dab.jpg)

Quotequote:Originally posted by Madloco
I wanted to know from you guys, if you think that there is a market for stuff like that in the States! ;)

-"A little less conversation, a little more action please

All this aggravation aint satisfactioning me

A little more bite and a little less bark

A little less fight and a little more spark

Close your mouth and open up your heart and baby satisfy me

Satisfy me baby"-

Well, in "Rugginose", our forum, when we have some foreigners asking a question, we try to answer...

Your possible answers could have been:

A) No, because it's not made by Harley Davidson.

B) No, because in USA we forgot Pearl Harbour, and only buy Japanese.

C) No, because we don't buy Italian Junk, but only Austrian ****.

D) No, because Mussolini wasn't a friend of the American people.

E) No, because Italy don't have enough Military in Irak.

F) No, because we don't like somebody new coming hier, and trying to do buzz marketing.

...And so on... :D

Listen, guys: I don't belong to any Motor Cycles Company, and I get my (few) money selling furniture, but...

Since I had this Idea, which has being putted on paper by Oberdan Bezzi, I'd like to know your opinion about it, thanks a lot!

Pozdrav iz Rovinja / Saluti da Rovigno



(http://www.tumotoverde.com/images/comprofiler/tn2157_467abeca28dab.jpg)

You forgot- build it wherever so long as we can call it American!  

For those who don't know it, Madloco is a Rugginose moderator/contributor and generously gives input (and even some free translations!) on that site.

I would not take limited response too personally.  I am certain nobody intended any discourtesy.   And I for one don't think in terms of "foreigner" or local, and I would bet that very few of us do since we are united in the reason for this group and board.   Anyway, here are my thoughts.

I would buy one and think a decent number of others would too. Look at what retro has done for Minis, VW, etc. A prototype to tout at Mid-Ohio, etc would be a better guage but obviously expensive to get right.  Now I don't know how "retro" Triumphs etc have fared. But for the next 10 years or so I think there is a demographic bulge moving through the consumer pipeline for whom this type of design will resonate deeply, evoking as it does the golden era of enduro bikes. Lowish stand-over height, vintage-look tank, seat and plastiche/graphics. Street legal would be nice.

Click here to see Mars attack:
http://www.ufodigest.com/news/0208/images/marsattacks.jpg

I would love to have a Beta version of this bike.
Dwight

Quotequote:Originally posted by kip kern

I like the 50cc and 80cc Zundapps that are being produced now in Italy.  CIAO   //www.zuendapp.com

I could really get into one of these.  Maybe a 100cc version for the states ?   The AMA won't let you race anything less than 85cc in adult races.  That sux.
I wish someone would produce a aircooled 2 stroke again. I could care less about a powervalve in the exhaust also.  
Dwight

Quotequote:Originally posted by BrianTaylor

I searched out and found some interesting designs by Mr Bezzi... here is the link  http://tinyurl.com/lcfs4p

To find the Penton and KTM stuff go about 1/2 way down the page.. Thks Brian


Brian Taylor

Brian - thanks alot for the link.  Mr. Bezzi - my hat goes off to you.  Those are some of the most beautiful "ideas" I have ever, ever seen.  And many of them seem so market-ready.  I will have to go thru them all again, but I love several of your flat-tracker themes and also liked Triumph Hurricane.  The Penton/KTMs are an absolute HOOT - thank you for feeding my fantasies!  

Just to let you know...

Oberdan ist still working on new proposal for the Beta Alp "Classic Series", and this is the last one, the "Classic Metal":

(http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/3826/betags40classicmetal.jpg)

We have a group, on facebook, that you can join, and where you can see several sketches, it's here: http://www.facebook.com/#!/group.php?gid=200916039221

Pozdrav iz Zagreba

(http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/6213/resperto3.gif) (http://rugginose.forumfree.net/)

Thanks Mad. And although it is a little late, there is an awesome Oberdan calendar of vintage enduro bikes avail at rugginose.forumfree.it


Mars Attacks!

(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c36/80fj40/marsattacks.jpg)

Quotequote:Originally posted by marsattacks

Thanks Mad. And although it is a little late, there is an awesome Oberdan calendar of vintage enduro bikes avail at rugginose.forumfree.it

Hi John, and thanx! Did you get a copy too?

It's never late for a calender like ours, since it's a collection of pictures, more than just a calender.

VMX has been also talking about it, here: http://www.vmxmag.com.au/03_news_events/vmx_calendar.html

Pozdrav iz Zagreba

(http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/6213/resperto3.gif) (http://rugginose.forumfree.net/)

Hello Maurizio,

I'd be interested to know who your suppliers are for the following components:

- Brake system
- Front & Rear suspension
- Frame & Swingarm
- Exhaust system
- Hand Controls
- Wheels

Stephen
Shelby, NC