Can somebody post a photo of a Jackpiner 175 during the US ISDT in Massachusetts?
Thanks,
Maurizio
Maurizio from Italy
What does it mean hi-breather frame?
Maurizio from Italy
Hi Maurizio!
These first 2 photos are of Jeff Penton.
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/150/344195766_5be1df2bc9.jpg?v=0)
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/123/344195765_a88e8ba577.jpg?v=0)
(http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/580/73isdtcyclelinercz2.jpg)
Maurizio,
The "high breather" frame means that the air intake for the engine, is taken in the top frame tube under the gas tank instead of under the seat or the side of the air box.
Dane
The picture shows the Italian Trophy Team from the 1973 ISDT.
Number Name Class Finish
# 72 Bruno Ferrari 125 cc Gold
# 137 Emilio Capelli 175 cc Retired
# 115 Ivan Saravesi 175 cc Retired
# 29 Renato Foresti 100 cc Gold
# 18 Elio Andreoletti 100 cc Gold
# 171 Augusto Taiocchi 250 cc Gold
The Italian Trophy Team finished ninth.
Paul
Those bikes are all Pentons, not KTM's, so I assume it was easier logistically for the Euro KTM sponsored riders to have bikes provided from Penton rather than ship them over? Did the US Trophy guys usually get their bikes from Austria for Euro ISDT races?
Brian
'73 Berkshire
The reason why Maurizio wanted a photo of a '73 Jackpiner, is that on the http://rugginose.forumfree.net/ website (a very cool vintage site!), a member posted some pictures of his restored '73 175, and stated that it had been ridden in the '73 ISDT.
http://rugginose.forumfree.net/?t=33882883
(http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/4595/ktm175gsisdt1973frontedkb4.jpg)
(http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/2779/ktm175gsisdt1973frontesdq2.jpg)
(http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/1327/ktm175gsisdt1973conottodb5.jpg)
(http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/9867/ktm175gsisdt1973contamivc0.jpg)
The frame number is 54 307 66811.
I think that it's very probably it is a Ktm 175 which had been ridden in the '73 ISDT by the Italian Trophy Team.
The bike was totally restored becouse it was in vary bad state.
Greetings from Italy
Maurizio
(http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/3357/ktm175gsisdt1973motoredjn2.jpg)
(http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/2156/ktm175gsisdt1973motoresix8.jpg)
(http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/631/ktm175gsisdt1973postaltvc7.jpg)
(http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/4977/ktm175gsisdt1973terminaxr7.jpg)
(http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/4875/ktm175gsisdt1973postdxsp3.jpg)
(http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/4670/ktm175gsisdt1973postsxzt9.jpg)
Maurizio from Italy
Very very nice bike! I like where they put the electric horn.
Brian
'73 Berkshire
Very nice bike! Interesting the way they ran the clutch cable, and the case saver bar on only the cluth side.
James
I thought it was interesting that a '73 already had a conical rear hub.
Lew Mayer
Acron Rims too Lew !! ? The only reason I don't think its a 74 is the 32mm front forks
Raymond
Down East Pentons
Check again. They're 35's, I believe. Maybe an early release for the ISDT?
Lew Mayer
Very Nice!
Thanks for the eye candy Maurizio [:p]
Dennis Jones
Quotequote:Originally posted by Lew Mayer
I thought it was interesting that a '73 already had a conical rear hub.
Lew Mayer
Very good observation, Lew.
That's was one of the details of the bike that was first discussed on the Rugginose site. If you look at the first photo of Jeff Penton's bike, you'll notice that it has a conical hub, too. I intentionally chose that photo for that very reason. By the way, the Italian word "Rugginose" translates to "Rusty".
Another detail that was discussed is that the bike has Magura ISDT lever assemblies with the orange adjusters. Here's a photo and a translated post that the bike owner posted today:
"Maurizio, here the photo of the departure of the ISDT USA 1973 with the KTM 175 pilots: from sx Stockemeier, Hall, Jeff Penton and Saravesi. With regard to the discuzzione of the Magura levers with orange registry, it can be seen that they had mounted to them."
(http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/6769/isdtusa1973bdfy1.jpg)
Gary
I tried to translate the text at the top of the last photo I posted. Apparently, there were several photos on the same magazine page from which this photo was cropped from. If you look in the upper left corner of the photo, you can see boots and the bottom of red riding pants, and according to the text, it's an American rider. It would be nice to see who it is.
(http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/7407/isdtusa1973bdfy1qk3.jpg)
"On the left: the detail harness of making USA pilots part of the squad that it has gained the Vase.
Over: intense intense activity to the term of a stage, before delivering the machine to the closed park.
Underneath: first day, departure the German, Stocklmeier, the South African, Hall, the American J. Penton, and the Italiono Saravesi, all on KTM 175. Only the German aggiudichera' the medal d' gold."
Gary, very good translation.
Aggiudicherà it means "he awards to himself" and discussione " controversy"
The bike owner asked the registration on POG.
Even the greatest italian champion Alessandro Gritti looks at the bike carefully. Perhaps it remind him something?
(http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/8569/radunoserinasett2008032vp2.jpg)
Maurizio from Italy
Maurizio,
Thank you for showing us such an interesting motorcycle, I will try to help you with some information.
The little sticker on the frame near the steering head, in the third picture that Gary posted, is very, very important and tells us much about the history of that motorcycle. At the 1973 ISDT, those stickers were used to mark the parts during tech inspection, instead of paint marks. That sticker is the correct sticker as I still have my 1973 125cc Sachs powered ISDT Penton with that sticker on it.
The little number in the center of the sticker, I believe it is 227, is that motorcycles tech inspection number. My sticker has 17 in the center as my Penton was the 17th machine to go through tech inspection. I still have my copy of the ISDT tech inspection schedule from 1973, the US machines were inspected and impounded first as we were the host country.
The Itialian team of 30 motorcycles were scheduled to be inspected and impounded on the second day of impounding, from 9:50 am till 11:10 am and should have had inspection numbers 233 through 262. The number on the Jackpiner, 227, is slightly earlier, most likely a few others were not ready in time and asked to be inspected, marked and impounded later.
The frame number you provided for the Jackpiner is 307 66811, the frame number on my 125cc ISDT Penton is 307 67255. This means that both bikes were built in July of 1973 and were about 444 apart on the assembly line.
As far as the later model updates on the Jackpiner, my 1973 ISDT Penton had several of the 1974 model year updates on it, and my 1974 ISDT Trophy Team Penton also had several later updates on it, including the Sachs D engine.
It looks to me that the Jackpiner has a very rich racing history.
I hope this information helps.
Take care,
Paul
Thanks Paul,
you helped me very well.
Ciao, Maurizio
Maurizio from Italy
Hi guys, I'm the owner of the KTM 175, and I'm just registered at the POG, thanks to Karen for her help.
I have a question for Paul, it's possible to know the name of the italian rider?
Mauro,
Welcome to the Penton Owners Group message board family.
I am heading out of town today for a couple of days. When I get back I will research the 1973 ISDT records that I have, I know I can give you a list of the Italian Team riders who rode 175cc machines, but I am not sure that I can tell you who rode that exact machine.
Paul
Thanks a lot Paul for the help you can give to me, if need more details about my KTM 175, please, feel free to ask.
Mauro
Quotequote:Originally posted by Paul Danik
Mauro,
Welcome to the Penton Owners Group message board family.
I am heading out of town today for a couple of days. When I get back I will research the 1973 ISDT records that I have, I know I can give you a list of the Italian Team riders who rode 175cc machines, but I am not sure that I can tell you who rode that exact machine.
Paul
Mauro,
These two Italian Trophy Team riders rode 175cc Jackpiners in the 1973 ISDT.
# 137 Emilio Capelli 175 cc Retired
# 115 Ivan Saravesi 175 cc Retired
If you think your machine was ridden by a Trophy Team rider it has to be one of them.
These Italian riders also rode Jackpiners according to my sheets.
# 17 Gianmario Facchidett Gold Medal
# 146 Alessandro Cola Bronze Medal
It is unusual that Gianmario Facchidett riding a 175cc machine would have such a low riding number, # 17. But, I have seen others in my papers who have unusual starting numbers given their engine size, so it is very possible that it is correct. In every paper that I have he is listed as riding a 175 as number # 17, so I think it is correct.
Does your Jackpiner have any holes drilled in the cylinder head and cylinder to allow for a wire to seal the engine together? Does it have any holes drilled in the frame near the lower motor mount, and a matching hole in the engine cases to allow for the engine to be wired and sealed to the frame?
Hope this helps.
Paul
Quotequote:Originally posted by brian kirby
Those bikes are all Pentons, not KTM's, so I assume it was easier logistically for the Euro KTM sponsored riders to have bikes provided from Penton rather than ship them over? Did the US Trophy guys usually get their bikes from Austria for Euro ISDT races?
Brian
'73 Berkshire
Brian,
I will try to answer your question from what I know, but Jack, Dane or Doug can possibly answer it better.
Obviously all of the Pentons were built at KTM, the difference is in the decals. My guess is that since the event took place in the US where Penton was the importer and distributor, the bikes were branded as Pentons, not KTMs.
My guess is that the Italian team prepared their own bikes at home and shipped them over. I saw no other countries machines anywhere around the Penton Imports buildings before we headed to Dalton for the event.
In 1973 we prepped our bikes and then they were hauled up to the event. In Italy in 1974 our machines were waiting for us when we arrived. They had been trucked to Italy from the KTM factory in Austria.
Paul
Paul,
thank for your answer, I checked my 175 and he has got a hole drilled in the cylinder head and another one in the cylinder, and it has a hole in the engine case but it has not a hole in the frame as you told, probably because I repaired the frame for the restoration, when I fount it was totaly destroid, other thing is: the bike on the frame under the tank has got two supports for two coils, for your experience do you think is correct?
Mauro
Mauro,
Yes, my ISDT Penton has two coil mounts, I think that really helps to prove that your Penton / KTM is a true ISDT machine.
Paul
Paul,
that is a really good news, thanks a lot and I wish you a Merry Christmas and Happy 2009.
Mauro