I have a 1976 KTM 250 MC5 that I may restore next year, but I'm wondering which Penton/KTM would be best in AHRMA MX? I mean is the 78-79 more likely to be a winning bike in Grand Prix than the 76-77 is in Historic? Thanks for your thoughts!
The "Factory Novice"
Hey Red, personally, I like whichever one I'm riding at the moment! ;)
Looking at pics of your yellow-tanker I can understand that. :D
The "Factory Novice"
In MX the 78-79 KTM is at a decent amount of deficit to the other Japanese bikes particularly the legal cheater ones like the 1981 YZ250. On a rough track the YZ will out motor and out handle the KTM of 78-79. As I said in one of your earlier posts this is with equal riders and as always the hand screwing the throttle makes a big difference.
Now on the other hand the 77 Penton/KTM 250 is in my mind a legal cheater bike in the Historic class. It will out run and out handle most of the bikes in that class and is my weapon of choice. The RM250 is a close one with better shocks put on but all others lag in my opinion. I will add that I am biased on this as the 1977 MC5 250 is my favorite Penton of all time and it is really in all honesty the first KTM and not a Penton at all. It is the first bike to be a total MXer from the KTM factory and was virtually the bike they won the World MX title on. I have won 3 AHRMA titles with the MC5 and it is because they are great bikes and that class is a bit weaker than some of the other Post Vintage classes.
Okay, that is my quarters worth.:D
Larry P
Larry P what do you think of the 1977 YZ250/400 D's in the Historic class? They would seem like favorits with the mono?
The problem with them is like all the early monos they are kind of heavy and I think they steer a little slow compared to later YZ's. The front forks don't work as good as the Zokes either. By 1980 the mono has gotten lighter and the swingarm is lightened by going aluminum. Then in 81 they go with the tighter turning that the factory bikes have had for awhile. By 81 the Japs are pretty much in control in my personal opinion.
Larry P
I have a 78 250 MC5 right now, I've raced a 81 YZ 250 in 07 in the GP250/40 Plus Expert. There's no comparison the YZ will walk all over my KTM. I personally think the 78 should be in the Historic class, the KTM is giving up a good 3" travel, a good 15 pounds over the YZ, plus the 43mm forks and the YZ never missed shifts, ect..... But I just think the 78 KTM's are one of the coolest looking bikes out there, I find myself talking out the trash more often, just for an excuse to get a peek at the mighty Katoom !
Four other options to consider that can turn the race result tables:
Good Practice.
Get stronger/tougher physically.
Modify/Tune the bike to work better.
Pick your battles on tracks that work in your favor.;)
Pete Petrick
175 Jackpiner
Slow but Good
If you can get the Hole Shot you should be able to hold them off for the short 5 laps:D.
Hey Scott(evomx244) - I like looking at your 78 Katoom also, even if it's a picture! But Larry confirmed my suspicions about bike "competitiveness" in PVMX - that the 77 is the way to go (in Historic). Having said that...the great thing about a lot of regional racing is "he who lasts...wins".
Trivia question: what ever happened to the Man who made the first generation 250 MX and subsequent MC-5 famous - Moisseev? Is he alive? I tried the Moscow white pages on the internet and couldn't find him. [8)]
Actually what I did find was a Wikipedia entry:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guennady_Moisseev
What a hoot it would be if KTM could figure out how to bring man this to Mid-Ohio for a Legends of Motocross race. The man, the myth.....
Bringing him to Mid-Ohio would be very cool and I would love to add that signature to my numberplate collection.
Larry P
I am with "Gooddirt"! My dad told me when I was flat tracking that I had to make up in the corners what I was losing down the straights! It might have been easier to push away from the table.This might have saved me from the body cast!!
Larry, I hope to see you here in March at the C.C.!!!
Thomas Carmichael
1970 125 Six Day
1976 250 Hare Scrambler
I asked on the Vinduro list if anyone knows how to contact Moisseev or where he is. I think this is a good idea to at least invite him to Mid-Ohio. I'm sure the POG could scare up a Penton/KTM for him to ride in a "Legends" race.
Brian
'73 Berkshire
If you check the Italian vinduro equivalent rugginose.net there is loads of info on Moisiev but not sure if they have his whereabouts. You can, however, see lots of pics of the man in action. Site includes pics of a 73/74 250 raced by him and then sent over for Jack Penton's use (according to the site). 78 MC5s are common as muck on that site.
Click here to see Mars attack:
http://www.ufodigest.com/news/0208/images/marsattacks.jpg
To watch the best parts of Mars Attacks!, click here (9 mins long):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bp3llVQh__Q
For those who have not seen this web site ;some news on Moisseev. check out vmxktm.net
Quotequote:Originally posted by marsattacks
pics of a 73/74 250 raced by him and then sent over for Jack Penton's use
These photos are from Bruce Herbison.
(http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/9955/98185802eg6.jpg)
(http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/346/jp1qk4.jpg)
Thanks Gary that is the photo! I haven't been able to figure out how to cross-post photos from that site to this one. They have some nice Pentons there as well as loads of sister bikes w/ KTM badging and it would nice to throw the pictures up here now and then. Best, John
Click here to see Mars attack:
http://www.ufodigest.com/news/0208/images/marsattacks.jpg
To watch the best parts of Mars Attacks!, click here (9 mins long):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bp3llVQh__Q
Hi John,
I'll go through step by step on how to post a photo from the Rugginose.net site, or any other site for that matter. I know that this is going to sound complicated, but once you get the hang of it, you'll be able to post photos in a matter of seconds.
1. Start your message on the POG message board and stop were you want your photo to appear.
2. Open another Internet window and go to the Rugginose.net site and find the photo you want.
3. Right click on the photo, and a window will open up.
4. In the window that opened up, if you see the words "Copy Shortcut" are not in black letters, got to step 5. If the words "Copy Shortcut" are in black letters, go to step 6.
5. On the very bottom of that window, click on the word "Properties". That will open up yet another window. In that window, look for the "URL Address", it will start with "http". In the case of this Moisseev photo that I found, it's "http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/3097/moissevrs5.jpg". Now, left click several times on "http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/3097/moissevrs5.jpg" until it's highlighted in blue. After it's highlighted in blue, right click on it once, and then another small window will open up. When it does, left click once on the word "Copy". Skip down to step 7.
6. Left click once on "Copy Shortcut". Go to step 7.
7. Go back to the POG site where you started your message. Up at the top of the message screen, look for a small box with mountains and a yellow background in it. If you hold your mouse of it, it will say "Insert Image". Left click once on the box.
8. In your message, the following should have appeared,"(img][/img)". In between the first "(img]" and the second "[/img)" is where you're going to insert the URL address that you just copied off of the other site. Now, place your curser right directly in the middle of the "(img] and [/img)". Right click once. That will open up another small window, when it does, left click once on the word "Paste".
9. If you've done it correctly, it should look something like this:
(img]http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/3097/moissevrs5.jpg[/img) But you won't be able to see your photo just yet.
10. You can post several photos to your message, but you'll need to repeat these steps for each photo.
11. If you click on "Preview", your should be able to see your photo(s). And this should be your result:
(http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/3097/moissevrs5.jpg)
12. You're ready to post your message.
Gary
That is awesome. Many thanks for taking the time to explain this so well. POGers get ready for some nice pix courtesy of our Italian friends.
Click here to see Mars attack:
http://www.ufodigest.com/news/0208/images/marsattacks.jpg
To watch the best parts of Mars Attacks!, click here (9 mins long):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bp3llVQh__Q
That is awesome. Many thanks for taking the time to explain this so well. POGers get ready for some nice pix courtesy of our Italian friends.
Click here to see Mars attack:
http://www.ufodigest.com/news/0208/images/marsattacks.jpg
To watch the best parts of Mars Attacks!, click here (9 mins long):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bp3llVQh__Q
If you like the 78 KTM's as alot of us do the 250 can be made competitive for GP class. Put in/on the 81 fork dampening rods and double bolt triple clamps (restricting the travel a bit to balence the bike properly), 13.75 or maybe even 14 inch shocks with lots of shaft travel such as the orig Alum finned Works Perf shocks (new WP's dont have as much travel). Add to that a 1981 250 cylinder (I even ported mine a bit) & head (bolts right on) and a 79-82 conical ft wheel and you have a very good 78 GP class bike. You can also make the 78 cyl go just as fast with ALOT of porting work. If interested in any of these details you can email me at
[email protected].
Oh by the way I agree with Larry that the 76 and espically the 77 duel foot peg MC-5 is a cheater bike for Historic 250 or 500 class! Also, by the way you really cant make the 78 400 (act 360) competive for GP class. But there is another 500 GP class cheater bike other than the 81 Maico 490. The KTM 420! This engine has sweet power! Take a 81 frame (with the longer steering stem frame section) and install the 82-83 40mm KTM Marz forks (I honed out the 38mm triple trees to 40), I think it was 15.5" Works or Ohlins on the rear and you have a lower sitting more stable bike than the stock 81, with better suspension...and that sweet 420 motor! Note that a 420 cylinder will bolt right on to a 81 495 engine.
Mike, I've been running a '79 420 motor in an '81 frame with the stock 15.5" Ohlins, and '83 250 Marzocchi 40MM forks in honed out 38MM clamps. Best set up is the dual front brake, works great. The 420 has been a great motor and super fast. But I just got the '81 495 motor completely done (thank Flash, SunriseKTM) and dropped into the frame, tried it out a bit on a very small track.
Feels like a rocket but still manageable and not hard to control. Other than spinning knobs off tires, can't see anything being lost with the 495 and guessing it will dominate on long straights. Seems to shift smoother and less notchy than the earlier 420. Any other differences, pluses or minuses?
I plan to put the 420 back in the '79 roller and make a dual sport out of it if I can make it quiet enough...and find a pipe (got one?)
Jon McLean
Lake Grove, OR
The stock shocks on the 81 were 16.5 inches, but I went with 16 or 15.5 on my 81, I cant remember. 15.5 was stock in 79 and 80, but the shock mount positions are different than 81. The tranny's are all the same. Pipes are VERY hard to come by. I just like the 420 power better. Maybe your more of a real man than I!
If you have other questions you can email me at
[email protected]Mike