I gleaned the following from a blog today. Can anyone confirm or deny the validity of this information?
"Well, the racing part probably. Over the past decade the AMA has been distancing itself and severing ties with all forms of racing. Most motorcycle racing has been handled by larger organizers in their absence. AHRMA (american historic racing motorcycle assoc.) is one of the last sanctioning bodies left that is associated with the AMA. About a week an a half ago talks started between the two about the future, the AMA is demanding about 70% of the gate money this year along with other things from AHRMA. Vintage days is the primary money maker for AHRMA, and in fact moneys earned that weekend pay for three other tracks in the season. Without Vintage Days, not only could they lose events, it could spell the end of AHRMA all together! They would have to come up with track rental money, and insurance. AHRMA is headed up by a U.S.Navy Captain, and is trying its best to work out a deal. The AMA has a new leader and wants the AMA to be solely focused on lobbing in Washington DC. Currently the AMA has 25 people to handle racing operations and 4 in Washington. They want this number reversed if not completely lobbiest only. Basicly turning the AMA into a two wheeled AAA. The AMA didn't release this season rules until Dec. giving only 2 months for all race teams to get ready for Daytona. The last race in California only put 7, that's right 7, superbikes on the grid for their race!! That's one way to get a top ten finish. In Alabama this season already, Chuck took first place in a field of three bikes in his class, one broke, he passed the other. Remember, these guys are just like us, paying to race, and the economy has caught up with them. The dead line for these talks to end is April 29, if their is no agreement by then, AHRMA and the AMA will be divorced and no racing will be held at Vintage Days. That leaves the swap meet, and some stunt shows. Manufacture trailers and rides will most likely not show up due to declining attendance at current events already this season. Honda (the leading manufacture in the world) has already told the AMA to shove it, and Suzuki and Kawasaki are following. Should these talks breakdown and an agreement not be reached, there definately will not be any overnight camping at Mid-Ohio for just a swap meet. That is of course if the whole weekend isn't cancelled for the first time in 14 years."
The only thing that is certain is AHRMA and the AMA are having issues, the real root of the issues is murky at best. If those issues are not worked out by April 29 AHRMA will no longer be sanctioned by nor have any relationship with the AMA. In light of that I dont see how Mid-Ohio could go on as planned. I am already changing my time off schedule from Mid-Ohio to other race weekends.
Brian
'73 Berkshire
Wow, most of the AMA members I know are members because its required to race. flat track, Enduros , moto cross... vintage or modern.
Raymond
Down East Pentons
Will this effect other events also?? Like Barber, the "Penton" crosscountry series, etc??
Ted was there an an author's name on the blog you shared?
I question the insight of this author.
Jack
This was relayed to me by a friend of a friend, Jack. My intention was certainly not to induce any false assumptions. I just hoped to find if there is any truth to this. It appears the data is based on the experience of some AHRMA roadracers.
Ted
Well gents I'm not positive where I heard this,it might have been from Dave Despain.But the rumor was the AMA was looking at the France family to take over management of the racing end of the AMA.If this were to be true than God help us all as seen by their NASCAR tactics they are only interested in one thing.MONEY.AHRMA is not a money maker most likely never will be so I'm sure they would sever the cord.Such as they did with a couple of historic short tracks.History doesn't mean squat to those poeple greenbacks rule thier actions.
Dave
I'm surprised at the ratio 25 people handling racing and only 4 in Washington. With all the arrows being shot at the motorcycling community maybe that number should be reversed. Maybe we would better be able to fight the land closure issues and stupid things like the youth motorcycle ban.
The blog seemed to deal with alot of opinion. I can't imagine the Big 4 turning their back on the huge number of folks who show up at VMD. What are the demagraphics for this event,40+??? These are the folks who have disposable income.
Hope this is a non event and things get straightened out.
Rod Whitman
Omaha, Nebraska
1972 Six Day (Rider)
1972 Six Day (Project)
cubfan,
Remember that the factories follow who buys their product. You do fill out a form when you ride their bikes so they have a baseline for their studies. Also the cost to send the 18 wheeler with crew is Very Expensive(I know the cost) so they really pick and chose there demo sites. Also with the big 4 pulling back on their Racing Budgets like nothing else in Hostory, just stay tuned for the next shoe to drop, the Racing scene is losing appeal to the Big 4.
Next is the statement of AMA becoming the AAA of Motorcycling and that statement is like a no brainer to figure that out.....just read their magazine and their news releases. Racing as we have seen it in the past is gone and the expense of bikes and parts just pile on more expenses for the young people who would like to be the next Champion. Sad but True.
Ron Carbaugh
Forgive me if this sounds harsh, but the AMA should try to be the motorcycle AAA because that is the only thing they do well. Racing will be better off if someone else runs it.
Brian
'73 Berkshire
Brian,
Sounds like you are doing what you do the best....telling it the way it is. Tip of the hat to you.[8D]
Ron Carbaugh
I am afraid that someone is underestimating how many members the AMA will lose if AMA membership is not required for racing. The only reason the AMA has such large numbers certainly isn't from the road riders or play riders. It is from the racing community. The AMA will surely collapse if they lose the racers.
IMO,
Dwight
Dwight I agree that racers do make up the largest segment of their membership. Most if not all of those members sign up because they have to not because the want to. Just thinking in my "Pollyanna" world if the AMA was to appeal to a larger segment of the motorcycle community by getting more politically active and having more to offer to the average motorcyclist. Wouldn't that entice a larger audience to join? Just speaking for myself, I no longer race (some say I wasn't racing when I was racing), what is in it for me to join the AMA if my belief is that they are set up primarly for the racing community? Now if my belief was that the AMA was out there fighting tooth and nail to keep riding areas open and having additional offers of insurance and other benifits. This would make me join. Kind of like AARP for the motorcyclist.
Don't get me wrong I love racing but most motorcyclists don't race. If you look at the way things have went for the off road motorcyclist in the past 30 years it aint good. Here in Iowa most of the best riding are on account of grass roots clubs that worked hand and glove with the state to set up areas where folks could ride. Maybe if the AMA were to aid these clubs, like BASS does for the fishing community things would get better.
I don't have the answer and you guys, like Ron and Dwight, have alot more knowledge in these affairs than I do. I'm just writing down what I think.
Thanks Guys
Rod
Rod Whitman
Omaha, Nebraska
1972 Six Day (Rider)
1972 Six Day (Project)
I'm surprised at the ratio 25 people handling racing and only 4 in Washington. With all the arrows being shot at the motorcycling community maybe that number should be reversed. Maybe we would better be able to fight the land closure issues and stupid things like the youth motorcycle ban.
The blog seemed to deal with alot of opinion. I can't imagine the Big 4 turning their back on the huge number of folks who show up at VMD. What are the demagraphics for this event,40+??? These are the folks who have disposable income.
Hope this is a non event and things get straightened out.
Rod Whitman
Omaha, Nebraska
1972 Six Day (Rider)
1972 Six Day (Project)
cubfan,
Remember that the factories follow who buys their product. You do fill out a form when you ride their bikes so they have a baseline for their studies. Also the cost to send the 18 wheeler with crew is Very Expensive(I know the cost) so they really pick and chose there demo sites. Also with the big 4 pulling back on their Racing Budgets like nothing else in Hostory, just stay tuned for the next shoe to drop, the Racing scene is losing appeal to the Big 4.
Next is the statement of AMA becoming the AAA of Motorcycling and that statement is like a no brainer to figure that out.....just read their magazine and their news releases. Racing as we have seen it in the past is gone and the expense of bikes and parts just pile on more expenses for the young people who would like to be the next Champion. Sad but True.
Ron Carbaugh
Forgive me if this sounds harsh, but the AMA should try to be the motorcycle AAA because that is the only thing they do well. Racing will be better off if someone else runs it.
Brian
'73 Berkshire
Brian,
Sounds like you are doing what you do the best....telling it the way it is. Tip of the hat to you.[8D]
Ron Carbaugh
I am afraid that someone is underestimating how many members the AMA will lose if AMA membership is not required for racing. The only reason the AMA has such large numbers certainly isn't from the road riders or play riders. It is from the racing community. The AMA will surely collapse if they lose the racers.
IMO,
Dwight
Dwight I agree that racers do make up the largest segment of their membership. Most if not all of those members sign up because they have to not because the want to. Just thinking in my "Pollyanna" world if the AMA was to appeal to a larger segment of the motorcycle community by getting more politically active and having more to offer to the average motorcyclist. Wouldn't that entice a larger audience to join? Just speaking for myself, I no longer race (some say I wasn't racing when I was racing), what is in it for me to join the AMA if my belief is that they are set up primarly for the racing community? Now if my belief was that the AMA was out there fighting tooth and nail to keep riding areas open and having additional offers of insurance and other benifits. This would make me join. Kind of like AARP for the motorcyclist.
Don't get me wrong I love racing but most motorcyclists don't race. If you look at the way things have went for the off road motorcyclist in the past 30 years it aint good. Here in Iowa most of the best riding are on account of grass roots clubs that worked hand and glove with the state to set up areas where folks could ride. Maybe if the AMA were to aid these clubs, like BASS does for the fishing community things would get better.
I don't have the answer and you guys, like Ron and Dwight, have alot more knowledge in these affairs than I do. I'm just writing down what I think.
Thanks Guys
Rod
Rod Whitman
Omaha, Nebraska
1972 Six Day (Rider)
1972 Six Day (Project)
Dwight,
Your comment;
I am afraid that someone is underestimating how many members the AMA will lose if AMA membership is not required for racing. The only reason the AMA has such large numbers certainly isn't from the road riders or play riders. It is from the racing community. The AMA will surely collapse if they lose the racers.
I agree, but this needs to be said TO AMA. I really have only used AMA's Federal shipping and felt it wasn't that good of deal. I have tried their hotel and rental car discounts and I can do better just as a walkin or calling the hotline for a reservation. My point is that I hear a lot of talk and I see more lawyers being hired. And I agree with Rod on most people had to join AMA and didn't join because they wanted to....I had to join to race.
Just in closing I have no dog in this fight anymore since I cannot race so I sit back and listen to the same complaints from promotors as I always have. Oh, and the first Big Race, the Daytona 200, run by the New Guys was a disaster.....ask people who paid good money to be there. That is it I am headed home to load up for Don's Race....the promotor makes it a fun Race.
Ron Carbaugh
Quotequote:Originally posted by firstturn
I agree, but this needs to be said TO AMA. I really have only used AMA's Federal shipping and felt it wasn't that good of deal. I have tried their hotel and rental car discounts and I can do better just as a walkin or calling the hotline for a reservation.
Ron Carbaugh
I will have to say that I have been using the AMA CP code for Red Roof Inns lately and I am getting about $7-8 cheaper than other ways. I stay at Red Roof about 5 times a month. I also agree that my comment needs to be said TO the AMA but Roger Ansel and others whom I have had close contact with over the past 25 or more years are gone or fired .
So Whom do we let know that we are not happy with the new direction of the AMA ? Sad isn't it. I have been a supporter of the AMA for over 38 years.
Dwight
Dwight,
I guess we should just email each other since you and I have the same feelings and have dealt with AMA (aka AAA of Motorcycling) for so many years. People like Roger Ansel and other wonderful people are GONE. I understand direction changes of Companies having worked for two Majors (Mobil Oil and Honda) for 35 years. But AMA is a Service Company and has turned into a mutual admiration society of Lawyers....plain and simple. I understand that companies have to change to survive and so be it, but change can go two ways. I will let the readers of this post form their own opinion of which way they are going.
I still refer back to Rod's statement....
"I agree that racers do make up the largest segment of their membership. Most if not all of those members sign up because they have to not because the want to. Just thinking in my "Pollyanna" world if the AMA was to appeal to a larger segment of the motorcycle community by getting more politically active and having more to offer to the average motorcyclist. Wouldn't that entice a larger audience to join? Just speaking for myself, I no longer race (some say I wasn't racing when I was racing), what is in it for me to join the AMA if my belief is that they are set up primarly for the racing community? Now if my belief was that the AMA was out there fighting tooth and nail to keep riding areas open and having additional offers of insurance and other benifits. This would make me join. Kind of like AARP for the motorcyclist."
That is it for today. I appreciate having this Site to voice our opinion.
Ron Carbaugh
Every Fathers day up here in the Northeast we have the Laconia classic, 7days 300,000 bikers and lo and behold, the Pros arent coming again this year :(
the National racing scene after 75+ or - years has dissipated and turned into all my local NE bros racing at the tracks.( a good thing for us self sponsored amatures!!) I think this year even the New England Harley dealers have pulled out of the Ben Campanella 1/2 mile @ Rochester as Sponsors ??
The worse thing is that the basic 300,00 people that are here still have fun, dont care about the racers, or races or AMA. the only real popular thing left is the wet T shirt contest, smoke shows and the girls strutting their stuff.
I miss watching the pros race and feel we've lost alot of sponser ship. Its not going to be easy getting any of the true competition back or the promotors back either.
with the AMA pulling back its reigns, it hard to wonder where these week long bike events are going to end up.
Raymond
Down East Pentons
The POG will be at it's usual location at VMD and will be providing a place for all interested folks to spend some time and partake of some fellowship and tasty nourishment.
Paul
AHRMA posted some info on their website about their dispute with the AMA. The posting is dated March 31. AHRMA mentions in this update that Mid-Ohio VMD races could be affected this year, and possibly the ISDT RR could be "impacted," according to AHRMA's web posting.
This stinks. What is VMD without racing? Just another giant swap meet. Nothing against swap meets, but ...
http://www.ahrma.org/
Cowhouse
79 Husky 390CR
79 Suzie RM250
Letter to the AMA:
I feel that the AMA has lost touch and it's mind. They have forgotten who the majority of it's members are and why they have joined. Who cares about roadside assistance. What does the AMA think it is AAA of motorcycling. I have been a member and supporter of the AMA for 38 years and like the majority of members , if it wasn't for Amateur racing , we wouldn't have ever joined the AMA. Not to say that the AMA hasn't done a lot of good but the reality is that we still wouldn't have joined. The AMA has fired all those we offroaders thought were in our corner. Now the AMA is alienated the vintage motorcycle racers buy severing ties with AHRMA who had aligned itself with the AMA. I hope somebody wakes up in Westerville and realizes what they are doing to it's membership. It is like they are trying to drive everyone off. Don't bother to reply. Show me you care with your actions with motorcyclists in mind and it isn't just about the dollar.
IMO,
Dwight Rudder
7 time ISDT / ISDE Medalist
many time AMA Nat'l Enduro Class Champion, former AA rider.
Dwight, their reply to my letter was that VMD was ONLY one event.
They must not realize it's a MAJOR event. I thought maybe I'd get to ride Jerry's CC this year. I guess not.
Lew Mayer
Quotequote:Originally posted by Lew Mayer
Dwight, their reply to my letter was that VMD was ONLY one event.
They must not realize it's a MAJOR event. I thought maybe I'd get to ride Jerry's CC this year. I guess not.
Lew Mayer
This came from the Indyriders site:
Interesting!!!
Mr. Kemsuzian,
On February 19, 2009, the American Motorcyclist Association (AMA) announced that it has settled the lawsuit filed in March 2001 by TeamObsolete, Robert T. Iannucci, et al. against AHRMA, Ltd., the AMA, etal. in the U. S. District Court, Eastern Division of New York. Team Obsolete, Robert T. Iannucci, et al. entered into a Settlement Agreement with the AMA, which resulted in the case being dismissed. The terms of the Settlement Agreement are confidential.
The AMA spent a considerable amount of its member's funds in its defense of this lawsuit. Ultimately, the AMA determined that it was not in the best interests of motorcycling, vintage motorcycle racing, or the AMA to squander additional resources on the matter.
The AMA and AHRMA are discussing various aspects of the sanctioning arrangement between the two organizations. The AMA hopes there will be an amicable resolution to these issues soon. However, we have advised AMA Organizers that if these issues cannot be resolved on or before April 30, 2009, the AMA will no longer sanction AHRMA events or activities, or otherwise engage in business with AHRMA. AMA will update AMA Organizers as more information becomes available.
We are aware of the thoughts, concerns and perspectives surrounding this issue. Understandably, the current environment of uncertainty is disconcerting to many. Like you, AMA hopes the remaining issues can be resolved and=2
0that everyone can get back to enjoying vintage racing.
Please be assured that AMA Vintage Motorcycle Days, July 24-26 at the
Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course in Lexington, Ohio, will include a full slate of national-level vintage racing in all disciplines, regardless of the outcome of this matter
Thank you for sharing your concerns.
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Stanford <
[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]Sent: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 8:44 am
Subject: Re: [IndianavintageMX] Re: AMA/AHRMA
a friend of mine wrote AMA, here's there response
Mr. Kemsuzian,
On February 19, 2009, the American Motorcyclist Association (AMA) announced that it has settled the lawsuit filed in March 2001 by TeamObsolete, Robert T. Iannucci, et al. against AHRMA, Ltd., the AMA, etal. in the U. S. District Court, Eastern Division of New York. Team Obsolete, Robert T. Iannucci, et al. entered into a Settlement Agreement with the AMA, which resulted in the case being dismissed. The terms of the Settlement Agreement are confidential.
The AMA spent a considerable amount of its member's funds in its defense of this lawsuit. Ultimately, the AMA determined that it was not in the best interests of motorcycling, vintage motorcycle racing, or the AMA to squander additional resources on the matter.
The AMA and AHRMA are discussing various aspects of the sanctioning arrangement between the two organizations. The AMA hopes there will be an amicable resol
ution to these issues soon. However, we have advised AMA Organizers that if these issues cannot be resolved on or before April 30, 2009, the AMA will no longer sanction AHRMA events or activities, or otherwise engage in business with AHRMA. AMA will update AMA Organizers as more information becomes available.
We are aware of the thoughts, concerns and perspectives surrounding this issue. Understandably, the current environment of uncertainty is disconcerting to many. Like you, AMA hopes the remaining issues can be resolved and that everyone can get back to enjoying vintage racing.
Please be assured that AMA Vintage Motorcycle Days, July 24-26 at the
Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course in Lexington, Ohio, will include a full slate of national-level vintage racing in all disciplines, regardless of the outcome of this matter
Thank you for sharing your concerns.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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New news 04/15/09: http://www.ahrma.org/#news
Ernie P.
Chattanooga, TN
Latest from AMA
http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=36166
Ernie P.
Chattanooga, TN
Now AHRMA has changed what they said on their website and dated it the day before eliminating what they said before. Their new statement reflects what the AMA says. Busted!
Larry P