Press release at the AMA website.
http://www.amadirectlink.com/news/story.asp?id=781
Sounds like the AMA is going to have their own racing at Mid-Ohio.
Brian
'73 Berkshire
The text of the release in case you cant open the link:
"The AMA is pleased to announce that AMA Vintage Motorcycle Days, set for July 24-26 at the Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course in Lexington, Ohio, will feature the inaugural AMA Racing Vintage Grand Championships, which will honor the top riders in a variety of disciplines with championship titles and AMA Racing No. 1 plates.
In addition, the AMA Racing Vintage Grand Championships will crown a single AMA Racing Vintage Grand National Champion. The Grand National Champion will be the rider who has the highest cumulative premier-class point total across multiple vintage disciplines held at the event. Featured will be road racing, motocross, dirt track, hare scrambles and trials.
"AMA Vintage Motorcycle Days is the country's premier event for vintage bike enthusiasts, and the world's largest celebration of motorcycling's heritage," said AMA President and CEO Rob Dingman. "It's only appropriate to recognize the top competitors at the event with AMA Racing National Championships. In addition, naming an AMA Racing Vintage Grand National Champion echoes an honor that has been very important in the shared history of motorcyclists, and allows us to recognize one outstanding individual who excels across multiple disciplines."
Class champions from the AMA Racing Vintage Grand Championships, as well as the 2009 AMA Vintage Grand National Champion, will be invited to attend the end-of-year AMA Racing annual awards banquet, where AMA Racing National Champions from around the country will be honored for their 2009 accomplishments.
In addition, riders winning titles in the premier classes at this year's AMA Racing Vintage Grand Championships, and the No. 1 plates that go with those titles, will earn the right to run and defend their plates at the 2010 AMA Racing Vintage Grand Championships.
Full details of the program, such as which classes will be considered premier and therefore eligible for AMA Racing No. 1 plates and points toward the title of AMA Racing Vintage Grand National Champion, will be announced in the near future."
Brian
'73 Berkshire
Have AHRMA and the AMA gone NUTS! I wonder what the "deal-breaker" was? Did egos and personalities trump logic and reason? I'm just guessing, but if the AMA uses any format/rules that could be construed as having originated at AHRMA, you can bet AHRMA will defend its territory. The Vintage pie keeps getting cut up with the pieces becoming smaller and smaller with each squabble. Before long, there will only be crumbs.
Ernie P.
Chattanooga, TN
I really dont understand what is going on because on the face of it none of this makes any sense to me.
Brian
'73 Berkshire
Boy am I glad that I didn't send in my membership. I think I will wait to see what is going to happen. Later Gary
AMA wants to cash in on what is a BIG payday. AHRMA will greatly suffer from the loss of this payday and quite honestly I don't think AHRMA has the money to court challenge AMA on anything they imploy as far as robbing goes. Many people will like the idea of a single day National Championship. It is far easier to win and less expensive. I will be curious to see how the AMA splits things up class wise and ability wise and to see what AHRMA says as this makes the previous stated deadline a moot point.
Larry P
AMA can have their day, but I will not support it as they are up to just cashing in and not really caring about the racing and racers. As Larry says it is all about money and AMA is now just going to be a pack of attornys (sorry to all the great attorneys reading this including my oldest Son), and that way they can have it their way. AMA has looked at the big picture and their pension is paid for by racers.
If this sounds like I am mad at AMA I am not. I am just explaining the real world. I do read their releases and how they boast about their the achievments....well what they get done is the least I would expect....maybe I expect more. Come to think of it I do and am proud of it. I hope they have fun at Mid Ohio.
Ron Carbaugh
Maybe AHRMA will start their own VMD. I will not attend VMD Ohio at all now.
Dwight
Dwight,
Great idea and make it make it located in Central USA or rotate it every three years to a new location. AMA needs to understand that Columbus Ohio isn't the center of the universe! Actually it isn't central to anything except I guess that is where Columbus landed?[8] Why do I feel like AMA is trying to do like the old days where you either raced with them or you were blackballed??
Well I am in enough trouble early in the day so I will not kick the dead horse anymore. Maybe they are going to have a Goldwing Class...I want to be sure the saddle bags are safety wired on[8D].
Ron Carbaugh
Well, what do you know? The vintage motorcycle competitors just got sucker punched. Where was the referee? Somebody should have been looking out for the geezer guys. I thought we were all motorcyclests and were to act like adults and share what little bit of fun time we have left. I'm hoping that the powers to be can find some common ground and stop what they are doing and remember who they are suppose to represent. And who would that be? Maybe US-the dues paying members cought in the middle of this mess. I think this is the place that the bearded guy says, a house divided can not stand. Or something to that effect. You get my drift. Booooo, Hiiisssss to both sides!
That being said,
I'll see you down Old Dusty,
Paul Busick [V]
I just submitted the following to the AMA on the feedback portion of their website:
"I just read your press release about VMD, and would like you to know that I am dismayed, nay disgusted.
Does anyone there actually care about the riders?
This is a money grab, plain & simple. Ahrma has built something good, and now AMA wants to steal it.
In the old days we ONLY joined AMA because we had to to race. It was by & for the manufacturers, and the Grand National Championship Series, yet was paid for by the tens of thousands of amateur racers.
Now we have a choice - I will stick with AHRMA, and will not renew my AMA membership....."
I would suggest that those concerned contact the AMA & post their own thoughts.
Clark
Clark A Gristina
1979 SERA Louisiana State Champ
Why would AMA doing anything else, They make it sound like without them there would be no racing at all. It was not that way in the 70's and it is not that way now. When I first started racing (71')I joined the AMA because I thought I needed to, but it soon became clear that very few races were actually AMA sanctioned.Remember they wanted nothing to do with Motocross? It is still true today...(they only care about the Pro stuff. I get the feeling that it has not been about the riders for a very long time. To be honest I am not all that impressed with AHRMA either...Though I will admit they do put on alot more races than AMA ever did.
Thom Green,Still crazy after all these years!
76' 250 MC5 (orginal owner)74'
250 hare scrambler (project bike)
72'sixday (project bike)
In the bigger picture what impact is this going to have on AHRMA. AHRMA has admitted that they are not financially sound...for many reasons not to get into here. Without the big pay day that comes from VMD can AHRMA survive in its current form? Regardless if you agree with AHRMA decisions and actions over the past few years, this is the time for members to step forward and help...that is if you want to have a national vintage racing organization.
chuck
72 125 Six Days
72 100 Berkshire
74 250 Hare Scrambles
72 Wassel
Poggers,
My minimal understanding is this: Some AHRMA road racer decided to start his own thing after being dissapointed with AHRMA. AHRMA told him to pound sand when he wanted to call his series or event some name used or copyrighted by AHRMA. This road racer is a lawyer by trade. Lawyer gets pissed and tells AHRMA that he is going to ruin them (ie: sue them into the ground). AHRMA's legendary stubborness has played a part in this as well. Sooooo, it seems to boil down to this: two entities (egos) are in a pissing contest over some seemingly stupid things. Carnage ensues in the form of lawsuits by lawyer when he gets his panties in a wad. I ask you knowledgeable insider type folks out there, is this about right? Nice to see that we can all get along. Cheers.
Mike H.
Tulsa POG
Mike, that is it in a nutshell. The one other thing to add about the Mr Iannucci is he is the original founder of AHRMA before it was a not for profit.
Brian
'73 Berkshire
Brian,
If this guy was the original founder then how did he find himself on the outside looking in? Was there a coup at some time? Cheers.
Mike H.
Tulsa POG
Ok,i just was wondering-will the AMA have a local/district AMA sanctioned club do all the work so they (the AMA) can just sit back and collect money like they do at most of the amateur races,district desert races,etc. and if so can we ride "Pie Plate" as a form of protest?Probably not since the coveted AMA card must be shown to ride the race,correct?If it's like D37 used to be you could ride pie plate expert without an AMA or district competition card-i think row upon row of pie plate number plates might send a message to the AMA,but they may not care.Don't get me wrong-I think AMA competition clubs do a great job putting on races on a shoestring budget with little or no support from the AMA-it will be interesting (if nothing else)to see how this turns out.
Ric
ric emmal
Mike,
If I remember correctly it was a three member board and two votes beats two everytime. So he said he would sue and he did....
Ron Carbaugh
Before I begin I want to say I am not pro either way on this. Nor am I completely con either way. I write this as observation of the big long-term picture.
First of all many know that AHRMA has had troubles for sometime both in monetary ways and in slow to change ways. This has invited several attempts at organizations like AVDRA and others to attempt a better mousetrap so to speak. Perhaps the AMA is seeing the weaknesses and that is their attempt too. As much as AHRMA has done for Vintage it has not been without the many helps and crutches provided by the AMA.
AHRMA has been hard headed in many ways and run off great workers like Dave Boydstun and Bobby Lucas and this has not helped their casuse. They have fought things the membership were for like the 100 class and youth involvement tooth and nail. AHRMA has also often operated with poor judgement and logic. From the moneysoaking lawsuit they would not settle to the illogical methods they have often used. An example was seen at Diamond Don's. In Cross Country you went to one location to signup, a different location to get your transponder or get it checked, and yet a different location for Tech. If you went to Tech after signup you lost your sheet and they needed it at the transponder area. Surely these could have been closer together and one hand could have known what the other was doing.
Please do not get me wrong and go off on me. Though I am often not a big AHRMA fan I appreciate their work and have at many events including Diamond Don's thanked AHRMA officials for their work and the joy they have brought me extending my racing career.
My bigger point is that all things will change and this may be a change that will eventually bring about the better mousetrap of Vintage racing many would like. In Missouri we have one of the biggest Vintage State Series in the United States and we split from AHRMA several years ago over the youth issue and this series has survived and grown bigger each year with some races drawing 300 riders.
I am not saying that the AMA is right in method or that they have our interest at heart but this may be the change that brings about the better somewhere down the road. There has been much support for less Nationals to earn a Championship and that is one of the ideas that the AMA brings to the table. If you have ever raced for the Amatuer Championship at Loretta Lynn's it is an exciting weekend. Perhaps as this unfolds there will be more ideas that we will like. Many will surely agree in their hearts that the road we were on was limited in it's duration and somewhere it would end perhaps in our older years without fresh members.
Please don't be too hard on me for my honest opinion. Regardless of our opinions we are Brothers in this and change IS going to happen NOW no matter what we feel. AHRMA and the AMA will now morph a bit and hopefully in the end a whole new thing will be born. It is my hope it will be something better and that we can look forward instead of backwards.
Larry P
I'm just wondering what role the recently-settled lawsuit plays in this whole thing. The conditions of the settlement are "sealed," yet it appears there was something in it that prompted the AMA's recent move. Either that, or it's one heck of a coincidence in terms of timing. Also, the plaintiff in the case was obviously very upset with AHRMA, and it doesn't seem hard to imagine that any settlement would have included some attempt to put AHRMA out of biz, or a least undermine what they've built over the years in terms of racing series.
Being a member of both AMA and AHRMA, I'm with Larry in the sense that I'm not feeling a passionate allegiance to either side. I just want to race my old bikes now and again. Don't really care who's sponsoring the race, as long as it's somewhat well organized and worth the money I pay in entry fees and any required membership dues.
Just my 2-cents (not adjusted for inflation).
Cowhouse
79 Husky
79 Suzie
If there is one thing I have learned from 35 years in business affairs, it's that there is no such thing as a coincidence, in the Corporate world. EVERYTHING but EVERYTHING is executed as the result of a carefully thought-out (but not necessarily destined for success) plan. Don't doubt for a moment that all this was pre-written, somewhere, by someone. RC will back me up on this one.
Just imagine....Captain of a ship off the coast of Somalia........what did he do, gave a shot and tried to swim, for his life. I think I would have done the very thing.....do not let words between AHRMA and the AMA detract from virtuous qualities of owning a Penton Motorcycle..............the campfire,and it's burning embers, are always there! If you doubt this, return at once, to your shop.
Tom Brosius
MIle High Pentons
Found this on vintagebikeracing.com
Quotequote:Let's cut right thru the bull**** and lay it all out there.
There was some earlier BS that AMA wanted JS removed. False. Trust me on this: the AMA doesn't care about JS right now. Maybe later if there's a lawsuit either civil or crimminal against Smilie and JS gets drawn into (which is a likely possibility).
The AMA wants RI reinstated. This is mandated in their settlement with RI. The AMA demanded that AHRMA reinstate RI as an AHRMA member. The Board refused. Case closed. AMA pulls the sanctioning and AHRMA loses VMD. The time table was dropped when it became apparent that there would be no comprimise by either party.
I would think that any AMA or AHRMA member has the right to inspect the books and records of the ogaization, which oight to include the right to know settlement terms in most instances. Perhaps it could be made inconvenient but probably not impossible.
Click here to see Mars attack:
http://www.ufodigest.com/news/0208/images/marsattacks.jpg
i am really worried about the future for vinate racing. it scares me to think of how some people* could have ruined it for the majority.
I don't think mid-ohio is sounding like it is going to be very good for the vintage racers. i guess im glad i won't be able to be there!
*AHRMA.
Go Navy
Ambr Milakovic
"Black Beauty"
It's a safe bet that Dingman is speaking with a bit of a forked tongue in this interview, but sure looks like he has the high ground in this situation. His PR machine is able to instantly frame the AHRMA press release and again put them on the defensive. One of the feedback comments at end of article is very informing...
http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/road-racing/2009/04/16/ama-vs-ahrma
I'm a just a second year racer looking forward to having fun on my Six Day and swinging a leg over the newest family member (76 MC5) later this summer (at VMD, actually!). But I guess it's just not that simple, huh?
Whether you side with AHRMA, AMA, or Ianucci in the end this sport/hobby is about the bikes and the people not the bureaucracy of whatever organization that "runs" it. No matter what happens, if AMA and AHRMA split or dont split, Ianucci gets his membership back or not, its about the bikes and the people. If AHRMA were to disappear and AMA stop VMD people will still have their old bikes and they will still find a way to gather together and enjoy them with each other. The POG already does this with its events.
Brian
'73 Berkshire
I most certianly would not say the AMA has the high ground on this. In fact I would say just the opposite. It would appear to me that they have willingly allowed themselves to become a party to extortion. From statemetns released, they have said they have no horse in this race anymore, so to speak, yet they appear to have allowed themselves to be used as a tool by RI in his never ending quest to destroy AHRMA. The AHRMA/RI case was settled with prejudice in Tenn., so he side-steps that settlement by using the AMA agreemetn to accomplish the same thing, by forcing the AMA to do his bidding for him by getting them to agree to cease AHRMA sanctioning unless AHRMA settles with him...which was already done in the Tenn settlement.
Personally, as a dues paying member, I find the AMA's statemetns in several places concering their disgust of making the issues surrounding this public to be disturbing.
I find nothing in the AMA's behavior being of the "high-ground".
I personally; after studying and reading, have come to the conclusion that AHRMA is where this could have ended long ago except they had the hard head and would not give. Sometimes it is for the better to the masses to walk away and mumble about it under your breath. It is easy to have the hard head when you are spending someone else's money and it is our $$$ that they squandered.
I am not saying Mr. Ianucci did not get this rolling or that he too has not been hard headed and I am not saying the AMA is perfect and handled all of it for the better but I truely think the AMA and Mr Ianucci are ready to get it behind them and AHRMA still has the hard head.
If this is true it will be a wonder if AHRMA gets through the season and a miracle if they field another year. After being lied to, having my money squandered, and the constant change the rules in the middle of the season, I ;and others I have spoken with, may quit the National season and those dollars will be lost too.
I am anxious to see how the AMA is going to do Mid-Ohio as it sounds like they are prepared to take Vintage racing to the next level to give it even more legitimacy. Change and advancement is something the good old boys at AHRMA have fought tooth and nail for years now.
Larry P
Larry,
I don't know how progressive AMA will be. I've seen nothing from AMA that suggests kid's vintage racing, allowing bikes beyond 1984-85 or a national series or qualifiers for the VMD Blue Plate National Championship. What do the Novices and Intermediates get? A baby blue plate? Diddley squat?
The press release looks like smoke up the a** to me.
Racing the "FaltaNator" in 2009
Jay is right, you guys that think AHRMA runs things poorly, just wait until AMA gets ahold of it. I've got my issues with AHRMA, but AMA is far worse.
Brian
'73 Berkshire
I guess I see the AMA different. I have raced AMA MX as a Pro and an Amatuer and AMA Enduro as an Amatuer at the National level and never once did I get beat with the pencil or had them change the rules in the middle of the season. I continually have that problem with AHRMA.
The AMA press release may be nothing in the end which is why I am anxious to see what they have to offer. The fact that they will at least offer #1 plates in some classes that are the equivelant to the other AMA plates and will award them at a real awards banquet with the likes of Bubba, Reed, Lafferty, and more is an awesome thought. Also the idea of racing different disciplines in the hunt of being Grand National Champion is intriguing. I have never done Trials, Flat Track, or Road Racing but I might try one day in the hunt of that. In the end AMA may do no better than AHRMA but if so they would have to work at it.
If nothing else thay would add newer bikes and youth eventually because there is money in it. Also because they already field a slew of National Youth events on a road that leads to Loretta Lynn's. I just hope someone does or our sport will not live much longer than we do.
You know, in the midwest we really dont need any of them. I wonder if they realize that? Midwest VMX and MOVMX are doing wonderful jobs, and now both have a USVMX national in their series. They also have youth classes, newer bike classes, ect. They have what we have asked for! Hell either one of these series will run any damn class WE want. You want a buddy class on 1966 Nortons? Show up in force and Id bet either series would do it. You just cant ask for more than that. Thats what makes it fun. It sounds like AHRMA may have blown it a second time...and dont even get me started on the AMA and this lead law. One of the AMA's primary reasons for being is to moniter PROPOSED laws and get involved if ANY possible problems COULD exist in the PROPOSED law, NOT PASSED LAWS! I will keep my AMA membership because we have no one else in washington. Thats easy for me because its free. But I say as far as racing goes, support the grass roots efforts...and let AMA and AHRMA spend other peoples money on lawyers! The best part of Mid Ohio is the swap meet anyway. The VMX tracks have never been great. Cool tracks and layed back people are what turn me on about vintage racing. Everything else is just stuff you have to go through TO GET OUT ON THE TRACK! I think AHRMA and the AMA may have "lost track" of this fact.
I Like Mike Fan Club.[:p]
Ron Carbaugh
BTW, just who is going to go to VMD anyway?
I'll be there. Will be riding my '71 steeltanker in the AMA museum's parade of vintage bike's and from what I understand, the bikes in the parade will be on display over the weekend. Got my pole-climber boots laced up, polished the old Bell 500TX helmet and joffa mouthguard, but unfortunately, my Penton Jersey seems to have shrunk several sizes over the last couple of decades.:(;)
I think you guys wishing the worst for AHRMA are trying to kill the goose that laid the golden egg. Before AHRMA our beloved vintage dirt bikes were only worth what they would bring at the scrap yard.
A lot of the regional series are doing great but they all started off AHRMA's coat tails. Is AHRMA perfect? NO WAY! But the lure of a national title and riding at quality events like Mid-Ohio, Daytona, Road America, Road Atlanta, Steamboat, Ect, Ect is what made vintage what it is, or was.
As a past regional coordinator (AHRMA/Midwest Vintage Trials) I worked with both AMA and AHRMA offices and I can assure you a lot of AHRMA's problems started with regional egos. IE. if I can't do it my way or if I can't be top dog I'll start my own series.
OK off my box.
Dennis Jones
Quotequote:Originally posted by Dennis Jones
I think you guys wishing the worst for AHRMA are trying to kill the goose that laid the golden egg. Before AHRMA our beloved vintage dirt bikes were only worth what they would bring at the scrap yard.
A lot of the regional series are doing great but they all started off AHRMA's coat tails. Is AHRMA perfect? NO WAY! But the lure of a national title and riding at quality events like Mid-Ohio, Daytona, Road America, Road Atlanta, Steamboat, Ect, Ect is what made vintage what it is, or was.
As a past regional coordinator (AHRMA/Midwest Vintage Trials) I worked with both AMA and AHRMA offices and I can assure you a lot of AHRMA's problems started with regional egos. IE. if I can't do it my way or if I can't be top dog I'll start my own series.
OK off my box.
Dennis Jones
[^]
Dennis,
In the case of MOVMX which is probably the largest state series in the U.S. the split was not so much ego as that AHRMA did not want kids or 100's to race. AHRMA told Curtis our way or the highway and Curtis chose the highway. MOVMX will have 150 riders on a bad day and 300 plus on a good one. The majority of AHRMA's National races don't do as well. I can not speak for the other series you have in mind but with MOVMX AHRMA killed a fat hog not seeing the light and in my opinion ego had little to do with it.
Larry P
Larry,
Curtis is a good friend and we have stayed at each others houses and tipped many brews discussing AHRMA and vintage bikes and you are correct that there is no ego issue with MOVMX. But he is a very good business man.
The 100 class was not much of an issue since as a promoter you could have any kind of support classes you wanted at an event. In the trials we would let modern bikes ride. They would pay their entry fee and be an exibition class, no one cared. We could (unoffically of course) let new people ride one event without joining AHRMA to see how much fun it was. They would almost always be back and join. Couldn't do that with AMA, it was pay up or don't ride.
The youth class is a whole other issue. Right or wrong AHRMA said no and there is a lot of money to be made by saying yes. MOVMX was big enough to stand alone and that is the way it went and is doing very well.
It still started out as an AHRMA regional series useing their structure and help and left when it wanted to do things different than current rules. Was AHRMA hard headed? Yes, but as a coordinator you know the rules going in.
The trials series is more of an example I was thinking of, it has been hijacked and now a shell of what it used to be. If you look at the national schedule there is only one event left in the center of the country.
When all the series are independant we have killed the golden goose.
Dennis Jones
Good points Dennis. I will be glad when this all settles out one way or the other. Then I will at least know what is going to happen to a certain extent. I just hope some good changes come from it and hope it does not turn out how it did when I thought deregulating the phone thing was a good idea.:D
Larry P