It is 5pm West, 7pm Central, and 9pm East and no word on the AHRMA or AMA sites about the supposed meeting with Mr. Ianucci. Looks like the deadline will pass before we know anything. Perhaps not good news for AHRMA as it seems if it got worked out they would get it on the website quickly. Maybe some info tomorrow.
Anybody else know anything from other sources?
Larry P
The wait is over.
http://www.amadirectlink.com/news/story.asp?id=829
Quote: Thomas Jefferson, We are all born ignorant, some work to remain that way.
Quote:Peter Villacaro, "it is impossible to teach those that wish not to be taught".
And the racing classes are......oops, gotta wait til the 4th.
They will have youth. Thank goodness! I look forward to hearing more.
Larry P
I always felt like the AMA had the upper hand in this thing along. The deal between AMA and Rob I. stinks so bad that it was hush-hush. Dingman and Rob I: Are you proud of your accomplishments? As disappointed as I am in AHRMAs leadership, I'm even more disappointed in Rob I. Some people spend their whole life tearing up what others have built. When it all settles down, it will be interesting to hear RI side of things -- directly, not though some Internet forum.
A one shot deal ain't no championship, no way, no how -IMO. Race a series and qualify for one shot, winner take all – that's OK. Rules? What rules?
Ernie P.
Chattanooga, TN
I don't see anything about youth classes. It just says 12 year olds can race in up to 250cc classes and 14 year olds for other classes.
Next to AHRMA bashing that is the dumbest thing I have ever read on this site.
Dennis Jones
Dennis,
Is a 12 year old not a youth? That is what I meant. Those guys are who we need to keep the sport going. Dumb is a relative thing. It is cool to disagree but having a different opinion does not make one dumb.
Ernie,
There are all kinds of Championships. I have a World Championship in BMX and it was a one day 30 second race. My name is listed as the 1982 Cruiser World Champion in the books and I have a cool sterling silver cup to show for it and a number one plate. The bad part is my Mother thinks it is a World Championship. There just are all different kinds of Championships in my mind. I consider mine pretty valuable.
Larry P
My choice of words may not always be the best but I said them and I will stand by them. If we lose AHRMA we as vintage racers have all lost the best thing that a vintage bike fan could possibly lose, the goose that laid the golden egg.
Do you want to be known as the World Champiom BMX Downhill Racer that ran over a 12 year old youth that panicked and fell down in front of you?
Dennis Jones
To all...but thanks to people like Ernie.
"I always felt like the AMA had the upper hand in this thing along. The deal between AMA and Rob I. stinks so bad that it was hush-hush. Dingman and Rob I: Are you proud of your accomplishments? As disappointed as I am in AHRMAs leadership, I'm even more disappointed in Rob I."
You know Ernie that I was lucky enough to spend my first two years with Honda in Alabama, Western Georgia and the Panhandle of Florida. I learned more about great local racers that cared less about the politics and more about racing. I will say that your post is so well accepted from the old racers. I always feel that the leaders (or so they think of themselves) are way off base. It is a money deal and they challenge and use the little people. I for years have helped people that couldn't afford to go racing first class, but with people like dingman and stan simpson who really love themselves more than they love the grass roots people they just have fun with themselves. I for one am disappointed in the entire ama experience and I am not happy that we give mr. simpson a free ride with a POG membership. If he wants to read about our wonderful organization he should pay like the rest of us. After all he brags about being a very successful person?? Also as far as the rob i he is a person who set put to destroy an organization and did it as far as I am concerned. Good job rob....like who cares.
Ron Carbaugh
Thanks Uncle Ronnie,
It's late, Goodnight
Dennis Jones
Larry, Putting a 12-14yr old on a vintage motorcycle does nothing to keep our sport going. Infact is bad for it. Most if not almost all 12 to 14yr olds have no concept of antique or vintage and no pride in them. They think these are just old junk motorcycles and they ride them so hard they break. If they destroy enough bikes then Daddy will buy them a modern bike. But we vintage enthusisists will be less several bikes to restore and ride. The only thing I would be for is maybe get a Chinese company to make a twin shock bike ( Vintage like ) and let the kids learn to ride that until they are old enough to appreciate a vintage machine.
IMO,
Dwight
Quotequote:Originally posted by Larry Perkins
Dennis,
Is a 12 year old not a youth? That is what I meant. Those guys are who we need to keep the sport going. Dumb is a relative thing. It is cool to disagree but having a different opinion does not make one dumb.
Ernie,
There are all kinds of Championships. I have a World Championship in BMX and it was a one day 30 second race. My name is listed as the 1982 Cruiser World Champion in the books and I have a cool sterling silver cup to show for it and a number one plate. The bad part is my Mother thinks it is a World Championship. There just are all different kinds of Championships in my mind. I consider mine pretty valuable.
Larry P
Quotequote:Originally posted by Ernie Phillips
I always felt like the AMA had the upper hand in this thing along. The deal between AMA and Rob I. stinks so bad that it was hush-hush. Dingman and Rob I: Are you proud of your accomplishments? As disappointed as I am in AHRMAs leadership, I'm even more disappointed in Rob I. Some people spend their whole life tearing up what others have built. When it all settles down, it will be interesting to hear RI side of things -- directly, not though some Internet forum.
A one shot deal ain't no championship, no way, no how -IMO. Race a series and qualify for one shot, winner take all – that's OK. Rules? What rules?
Ernie P.
Chattanooga, TN
Ernie, Ianucci is the founder of AHRMA, there was no "somebody else". If you go to the AMA website and look around it sounds like what you propose (a series that culminates with a grand championship much like Loretta Lynn format) is the goal, this season it is not practical given the current short notice.
Quote: Thomas Jefferson, We are all born ignorant, some work to remain that way.
Quote:Peter Villacaro, "it is impossible to teach those that wish not to be taught".
Quotequote:Originally posted by Dwight Rudder
Larry, Putting a 12-14yr old on a vintage motorcycle does nothing to keep our sport going. Infact is bad for it. Most if not almost all 12 to 14yr olds have no concept of antique or vintage and no pride in them. They think these are just old junk motorcycles and they ride them so hard they break. If they destroy enough bikes then Daddy will buy them a modern bike. But we vintage enthusisists will be less several bikes to restore and ride. The only thing I would be for is maybe get a Chinese company to make a twin shock bike ( Vintage like ) and let the kids learn to ride that until they are old enough to appreciate a vintage machine.
IMO,
Dwight
Quotequote:Originally posted by Larry Perkins
Dennis,
Is a 12 year old not a youth? That is what I meant. Those guys are who we need to keep the sport going. Dumb is a relative thing. It is cool to disagree but having a different opinion does not make one dumb.
Ernie,
There are all kinds of Championships. I have a World Championship in BMX and it was a one day 30 second race. My name is listed as the 1982 Cruiser World Champion in the books and I have a cool sterling silver cup to show for it and a number one plate. The bad part is my Mother thinks it is a World Championship. There just are all different kinds of Championships in my mind. I consider mine pretty valuable.
Larry P
Dwight, with all due respect I think you are selling the kids short. I can tell you first hand the kids are for the most part very interested in the old bikes much like they would show interest in the old days of football or baseball if it interested them in the modern era. I'm going to name drop (sorry) a couple of younger racers that you may recognize that showed genuine interest in the bikes themselves many years ago, Travis Pastrana, Davey Milsaps and Ernesto Fonseca. These kids are so much fun to be around, 12 or 14 years ago more or less they asked lots questions about the old bikes and blew me away with genuine interest. I also the pleasure of meeting (at the time YAMAHA suported) Brian Manley, he marveled at the utter simplicity of my Montesa and quipped it looked cool, I asked him if he wanted to try it and he said yes. We were at a local race without vintage classes so he took the Montesa out (instead of his new Yamaha) in the plus +30A modern and without ever swinging a leg over it before led the race by being so smooth and gentle it was a delight to watch. There was a small double jump on the track (the only double) and he refused to try to make it even though he could have easily (he "didn't want to break it"), I call that respect for the equipment. Brian was slated to race some AHRMA events with me in the upcoming year but had the misfortune of injuring his back and lost his ability to walk, of all things shooting a modern jump video like Crusty Demons or the like.
These young racers impressed me and changed my view, I too like many had written them all off as being 1 dimensional, nothing could be futher from the truth.
Quote: Thomas Jefferson, We are all born ignorant, some work to remain that way.
Quote:Peter Villacaro, "it is impossible to teach those that wish not to be taught".
First of all those kids are much older than 12-14 even a few years ago. 12-14 year olds can't appreciate the vingage scene. There are a rare few but that is not the majority. I have seen it too many times when "KIDS" try to ride vintage bikes just like modern bikes. Some actually try to break them on purpose because Dad will buy them a "REAL" motorcycle and not this "OLD JUNK".
You may have a different opinion but I think my opinion is more realistic and not just optimistic. (Sadly) I do wish it were otherwise.
Dwight
[/quote]
Dwight, with all due respect I think you are selling the kids short. I can tell you first hand the kids are for the most part very interested in the old bikes much like they would show interest in the old days of football or baseball if it interested them in the modern era. I'm going to name drop (sorry) a couple of younger racers that you may recognize that showed genuine interest in the bikes themselves many years ago, Travis Pastrana, Davey Milsaps and Ernesto Fonseca. These kids are so much fun to be around, 12 or 14 years ago more or less they asked lots questions about the old bikes and blew me away with genuine interest. I also the pleasure of meeting (at the time YAMAHA suported) Brian Manley, he marveled at the utter simplicity of my Montesa and quipped it looked cool, I asked him if he wanted to try it and he said yes. We were at a local race without vintage classes so he took the Montesa out (instead of his new Yamaha) in the plus +30A modern and without ever swinging a leg over it before led the race by being so smooth and gentle it was a delight to watch. There was a small double jump on the track (the only double) and he refused to try to make it even though he could have easily (he "didn't want to break it"), I call that respect for the equipment. Brian was slated to race some AHRMA events with me in the upcoming year but had the misfortune of injuring his back and lost his ability to walk, of all things shooting a modern jump video like Crusty Demons or the like.
These young racers impressed me and changed my view, I too like many had written them all off as being 1 dimensional, nothing could be futher from the truth.
Quote: Thomas Jefferson, We are all born ignorant, some work to remain that way.
Quote:Peter Villacaro, "it is impossible to teach those that wish not to be taught".
[/quote]
PROVE that he was the "FOUNDER". He was just one early member and not FOUNDER. He was kicked out for being caught numerous times outright cheating. Not exactly something to be proud of. Calling him "FOUNDER" is like calling Al Gore the "FOUNDER" of the internet.
Dwight
Quotequote:Originally posted by Merlin
Quotequote:Originally posted by Ernie Phillips
I always felt like the AMA had the upper hand in this thing along. The deal between AMA and Rob I. stinks so bad that it was hush-hush. Dingman and Rob I: Are you proud of your accomplishments? As disappointed as I am in AHRMAs leadership, I'm even more disappointed in Rob I. Some people spend their whole life tearing up what others have built. When it all settles down, it will be interesting to hear RI side of things -- directly, not though some Internet forum.
A one shot deal ain't no championship, no way, no how -IMO. Race a series and qualify for one shot, winner take all – that's OK. Rules? What rules?
Ernie P.
Chattanooga, TN
Ernie, Ianucci is the founder of AHRMA, there was no "somebody else". If you go to the AMA website and look around it sounds like what you propose (a series that culminates with a grand championship much like Loretta Lynn format) is the goal, this season it is not practical given the current short notice.
Quote: Thomas Jefferson, We are all born ignorant, some work to remain that way.
Quote:Peter Villacaro, "it is impossible to teach those that wish not to be taught".
There are many kids that race MOVMX that are not what you say Dwight. I think you want it to not work and it is that hard headedness that has made AHRMA try to find a way to keep kids from racing Vintage instead of trying to figure a way for it to happen. I think you wish the AMA to fail in this venture and AHRMA to succeed. I predict it will go just the opposite. The AMA will take Vintage racing into the future and AHRMA will eventually fold. In the meantime we can all just agree to disagree.
By the way Dennis I know as many squid adult riders that I worry of doing a boner move on the track as I know kids that I would gladly try to catch. Quite a few. You can believe I am dumb for not liking AHRMA but that alone is a bit childish. I don't think you are dumb for believing in them. AHRMA has worked over time at irking me. I guess I will leave it with this-between bicycles and motorcycles I have won a World Championship and 7 National Championships. I have raced for over 40 years all over the United States and twice in Europe and AHRMA has caused me more grief than anywhere else. More than the GNC, AMA, ABA, NBL, WBL, and UCI combined.
Larry P
Ok,So now that's it's over maybe ahrma can get back to their supposed original purpose-"anybody with an old bike in the back of their truck and 20 bucks in their pocket can race".I don't know who screwed who in this deal but let's just all hope it hasn't hurt vintage racing as a whole too badly.
Ric
ric emmal
I was a little late to the AHRMA, AMA & Rob I confusion, argument, lawsuit thing, but have been interested since it spilled over to this site. I personally cannot take any side as it appears, from what has been said, that all parties involved screwed up somewhere along the way. It is apparent that none of the parties involved acted with cool minds and were looking to the future.
Everyone that has committed has made very relevant points regarding their position, but the real facts are still buried and no one, other than the parties involved, knows those facts. Someday we will all know, but not today.
However, I like the way that Larry has stirred the pot. At least for me, his position is not misunderstood and has caused others to relook some of their positions. That is a healthy environment , out in the open for all concerned.
I am reminded of the moniker that was hung on Harry Truman, "Give Em Hell Harry". I think Larry has earned that title today. "Give Em Hell Larry".
Tony Friedel
Quotequote:Originally posted by Merlin
QuoteOriginally posted by Dwight Rudder
PROVE that he was the "FOUNDER". He was just one early member and not FOUNDER. He was kicked out for being caught numerous times outright cheating. Not exactly something to be proud of. Calling him "FOUNDER" is like calling Al Gore the "FOUNDER" of the internet.
Dwight
READ THESE:http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=27606
http://www.nonprofitissues.com/public/features/leadfree/2006aug1-IS.html http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/road-racing/2009/04/16/ama-vs-ahrma http://www.bikernewswire.com/story_684.html http://www.ahrma.org/rulebook/sec16.htm https://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=31485 https://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=27606
Your turn,prove Ianucci is not the founder. Oh yes Dwight, would you care to enlighten us with the details of these numerous incidents of cheating? I know some others that raced against Ianucci's Team Obsolete were, "questionable".
Quote: Thomas Jefferson, We are all born ignorant, some work to remain that way.
Quote:Peter Villacaro, "it is impossible to teach those that wish not to be taught".
Quote: Thomas Jefferson, We are all born ignorant, some work to remain that way.
Quote:Peter Villacaro, "it is impossible to teach those that wish not to be taught".
Very good homework. Nice when facts are there instead of wishes. Good job Merlin!
Larry P
So this RI/Team Obsolete-AHRMA thing has been going on for almost a decade, and at the expense of the organization? Makes me sad to think that both sides' egos and/or stubborness got in the way of an equitable solution. Regardless of how wrong or right AHRMA may have been when originally excluding Team O from competition, the end result sure smells like a lawyer's personal vendetta. Why would RI want to drive something he helped start to ruin? Why couldn't AHRMA work to find some common middle ground? Very selfish and un-Christian actions by all parties involved. Just an opinion from someone who knows nothing about the mess and has no dog in either hunt.
Jeff DeBell
I think you called it ![^]
I find nothing here that proves Rob I. was "THE" AHRMA "FOUNDER" . Just heresay and bad links here.
How about the facts that Larry mentions ?
Dwight
Quotequote:Originally posted by Merlin
Quotequote:Originally posted by Merlin
QuoteOriginally posted by Dwight Rudder
PROVE that he was the "FOUNDER". He was just one early member and not FOUNDER. He was kicked out for being caught numerous times outright cheating. Not exactly something to be proud of. Calling him "FOUNDER" is like calling Al Gore the "FOUNDER" of the internet.
Dwight
READ THESE:http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=27606
http://www.nonprofitissues.com/public/features/leadfree/2006aug1-IS.html http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/road-racing/2009/04/16/ama-vs-ahrma http://www.bikernewswire.com/story_684.html http://www.ahrma.org/rulebook/sec16.htm https://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=31485 https://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=27606
Your turn,prove Ianucci is not the founder. Oh yes Dwight, would you care to enlighten us with the details of these numerous incidents of cheating? I know some others that raced against Ianucci's Team Obsolete were, "questionable".
Quote: Thomas Jefferson, We are all born ignorant, some work to remain that way.
Quote:Peter Villacaro, "it is impossible to teach those that wish not to be taught".
Quote: Thomas Jefferson, We are all born ignorant, some work to remain that way.
Quote:Peter Villacaro, "it is impossible to teach those that wish not to be taught".
Your turn,prove Ianucci is not the founder. Oh yes Dwight, would you care to enlighten us with the details of these numerous incidents of cheating? I know some others that raced against Ianucci's Team Obsolete were, "questionable".
Now pray tell how I can prove that ? Was Ianucci a former President of AHRMA ? I don't know so tell me. Did he ever have a position in AHRMA ? I am not saying he wasn't in AHRMA at some time but to say that he is the actual "FOUNDER" is strong stuff and funny that guys like Dick Mann and Jeff Smith had the pull to have a "FOUNDER" disqualified and banned from AHRMA events. The stories I read about the cheating and disqualifications were in CYCLE NEWS . What other reason is given for them kicking Rob I. and his "TEAM" out for good ? I feel that anyone that is caught cheating more than a few times should be kicked out. Let's remember the spirit of Vintage racing is not just to build the most modern bike or fastest bike but to keep the past alive.
IMO,
Dwight
PS: Why are you so in favor of Ianucci and so anti AHRMA ? Do you want AHRMA to fail and why ?
One thing for sure; there is a lot of passion out there on this subject – from all sides. AHRMA IMO was started as a grass roots organization. Every origination requires leadership to function and AHRMA's leadership obviously has been passionate about this issue. I think it would be a good idea if everyone stepped backed, took a deep breath and asked themselves: "Why do we exist and how can we best serve our customer?" and put that ahead of any ego driven or other motives. I don't know if all individuals can do that in this case. My understanding is that AHRMA has very recently done just that...unfortunately to no avail.
Pete Petrick
175 Jackpiner
Slow but Good
QuoteOriginally posted by Dwight Rudder
Your turn,prove Ianucci is not the founder. Oh yes Dwight, would you care to enlighten us with the details of these numerous incidents of cheating? I know some others that raced against Ianucci's Team Obsolete were, "questionable".
Now pray tell how I can prove that ? Was Ianucci a former President of AHRMA ? I don't know so tell me. Did he ever have a position in AHRMA ? I am not saying he wasn't in AHRMA at some time but to say that he is the actual "FOUNDER" is strong stuff and funny that guys like Dick Mann and Jeff Smith had the pull to have a "FOUNDER" disqualified and banned from AHRMA events. The stories I read about the cheating and disqualifications were in CYCLE NEWS . What other reason is given for them kicking Rob I. and his "TEAM" out for good ? I feel that anyone that is caught cheating more than a few times should be kicked out. Let's remember the spirit of Vintage racing is not just to build the most modern bike or fastest bike but to keep the past alive.
IMO,
Dwight
PS: Why are you so in favor of Ianucci and so anti AHRMA ? Do you want AHRMA to fail and why ?QuoteI never said I was anti AHRMA or pro Ianucci, I find it interesting how people that otherwise appear to be able to think for themselves automaticly believe what the spin merchants pedal. I also find it interesting that you refer to Ianucci's repeated cheating yet you are unable to produce evidence or sight documentation other than "it was in Cycle News", pretty weak Dwight.
This link http://www.nonprofitissues.com/public/features/leadfree/2006aug1-IS.html is to a report that is obviuosly from the courts, sounds like a matter of record here. The other links repeatedly refer to Ianucci as the founder and now after all of this time somehow you imply all of these referrals are a mistake?
The bottom line is AHRMA fought a battle they could not win because they chose not cut their losses, regardless of "what side someone is on", or even if they never picked sides other than hoping someone in AHRMA was doing the right thing. The fact is the whole ordeal swept the AMA in to the frey and as a result have proven that personal ego trumps what is good for the membership to the point where the AMA gave AHRMA the boot. At this point no doubt the sport will see changes, I for one with the current leadership of AHRMA running things for them will not send or spend another nickle with them with things as is, the track record they have established is one driven by poor judgement and personal agenda, regardless of the outcome.
Quote: Thomas Jefferson, We are all born ignorant, some work to remain that way.
Quote:Peter Villacaro, "it is impossible to teach those that wish not to be taught".
I saw nothing that convinces me the a Rob I. was a founder. Just because it is mentioned in a article that was based on a interview with I. doesn't make it so. No more than Al Gore saying that he invented the internet. Why do you think AHRMA kicked him and his sponsored riders out ? Do you think it was for no reason or a minor infraction ? Nobody is twisting your arm to ride AHRMA events. Go ride another series and have fun. Or, you can support the new AMA Vintage series which I am sure will be headed by Rob I. This constant complaining and whinning is not productive but destructive to the vintage racing cause. If you think you could AHRMA do better , run for office. I think there are more in favor of AHRMA than against. Time will tell.
Lets get back to riding and racing vintage bikes.
Dwight
Larry, Back to Kids racing, When do you think that kids could race at AHRMA MX ? There are so many classes that it is hard to get them all in during the weekend. I personally think that they should go to a A & B class rating and do away with the EXPERT , Intermediate, and Novice ratings. I think more riders are needed in most classes and that would help greatly. And who knows, maybe they could work in a single kids mini class.
Just a thought.
Dwight
Dwight,
I think we need kids racing vintage for several reasons. One we will all die one day and it is our best bet of these bikes still being remembered if sons, daughters, grandsons, and granddaughters have some connection to these bikes. No better way to connect than hands on. To know what they were really like helps one appreciate that time and how good today's bikes are in comparison. Another is that it gives a reason for the whole family to go to vintage events.
Vintage mini will most likely not happen with AHRMA because they so oppose kids and fear that liability. The A & B rating is a good idea and that is the way the AMA Vintage is doing it with 2 ratings-A as one group & B/C as another.
Larry P
Quotequote:Originally posted by Larry Perkins
Dwight,
I think we need kids racing vintage for several reasons. One we will all die one day and it is our best bet of these bikes still being remembered if sons, daughters, grandsons, and granddaughters have some connection to these bikes. No better way to connect than hands on. To know what they were really like helps one appreciate that time and how good today's bikes are in comparison. Another is that it gives a reason for the whole family to go to vintage events.
Vintage mini will most likely not happen with AHRMA because they so oppose kids and fear that liability. The A & B rating is a good idea and that is the way the AMA Vintage is doing it with 2 ratings-A as one group & B/C as another.
Larry P
No B/C class but just a single B class. Like when we first started racing there was no C class at all. You started in B. Make sure that the top B riders become A riders as soon as possible. Then maybe we could have a 75cc mini class. ( Yamaha GT80, Sachs K80, Fugi 80 engined bikes, Honda 70 & XR75 were all 72-73cc bikes. ) The AMA doesn't want us to ride anything less than a 86cc bike in adult races although they rode Sachs Boondockers (Sachs 80, 73cc) bikes with good results in the late 60s. In Europe they rode 50cc full sized bikes for many many years. So why not us.
Dwight,
I agree and good ideas but good luck getting AHRMA to do it. They were 5 years allowing 100's to race.
Larry P
Quotequote:Originally posted by Dwight Rudder
I saw nothing that convinces me the a Rob I. was a founder. Just because it is mentioned in a article that was based on a interview with I. doesn't make it so. No more than Al Gore saying that he invented the internet. Why do you think AHRMA kicked him and his sponsored riders out ? Do you think it was for no reason or a minor infraction ? Nobody is twisting your arm to ride AHRMA events. Go ride another series and have fun. Or, you can support the new AMA Vintage series which I am sure will be headed by Rob I. This constant complaining and whinning is not productive but destructive to the vintage racing cause. If you think you could AHRMA do better , run for office. I think there are more in favor of AHRMA than against. Time will tell.
Lets get back to riding and racing vintage bikes.
Dwight
I guess pointing out how AHRMA dropped the ball and asking you to substantiate your claim of Ianucci's cheating as well as your continued denyal Ianucci is a founder is whining, this is your best defense? No wonder AHRMA was able to pick so many pockets for so long.
Quote: Thomas Jefferson, We are all born ignorant, some work to remain that way.
Quote:Peter Villacaro, "it is impossible to teach those that wish not to be taught".
Dwight,
Rob I. did start AHRMA as his own for profit organization. Two years after that (in '88 I think) he, Dick Mann, and Jeff Smith merged AHRMA and various other small "vintage" clubs into the one large not for profit AHRMA that we know now. In one sense Rob I was the founder since his club had that same name, and in another sense, he and Jeff Smith did the legal work to convert it into a not for profit. Soon thereafter is when the trouble started, and twenty years later here we are.
Brian
'73 Berkshire
Rob I. also has the distinction of bankrupting AHRMA twice; once when he owed it and once when we owned it.
Racing the "FaltaNator" in 2009
Quotequote:Originally posted by brian kirby
Dwight,
Rob I. did start AHRMA as his own for profit organization. Two years after that (in '88 I think) he, Dick Mann, and Jeff Smith merged AHRMA and various other small "vintage" clubs into the one large not for profit AHRMA that we know now. In one sense Rob I was the founder since his club had that same name, and in another sense, he and Jeff Smith did the legal work to convert it into a not for profit. Soon thereafter is when the trouble started, and twenty years later here we are.
Brian
'73 Berkshire
Makes sense. I stand corrected to a point. So he invented the name but it took Jeff Smith and others to make it the larger organization that it is today after Rob I. bankrupted his own organization.
Too bad that some are getting personal here with their complaints and attacks. This should be a productive discussion and nothing else.
Dwight
Correct. He is in a sense the founder, but its not like he created what we have today. What we have today came from many different organizations, one of which was his and they happened to use his club's name.
Brian
'73 Berkshire