I'd like to open a discussion on woods riding technique. At my last race I lost two wins on the last lap due to mistakes; both times because I was charging too fast, didn't have a rhythm, and wore myself out to the point that I made a mistake and killed the engine.
So waht do you guys do? Up on the tank all the time, feet on the pegs, squeeze the tank? Also, one hour is not a long time, but how important is the start? Looking forward to your answers! [:p]
Mick
Mick,
I am not the best of woods riders. Partly because I did not do the woods till I was almost 30 and partly because there are no berms.:D I can give you my spin, however. Perhaps you can glean some good from it.
First off, I am generally a quick starter and try to distance myself knowing the fade and the close will come sooner or later. So I try hard to be first to the woods. I sit down way too much and always have. Most of the really fast guys stand more and can even corner well like that. If you ever get a chance to watch Kevin Brown corner standing watch with awe. I am a up on the tank corner guy and try to weight the outside peg hard in most instances.
I seem to start out a bit jerky and find more and more rhythm as I go along. By the last lap I pretty much have set lines and shift points as far as what gear where. I think when mistakes are made late it is usually from being a bit short on the conditioning it takes to do the hour or it is mental because we are being pressured and we are focused behind us instead of in front as it should be. Often we fatigue because we are using the Mongolian death grip on the bars and are not relaxed.
Well, that is my limited spin on the woods. I might add that you already have the best quality to finding success on the bike. Something that many fast guys lack. You have a true love for just doing it and having fun. It is an exuberance that can not be taught. That will take you a long ways and will smooth over many mistakes. I have won many races where I did not have much fun and I still have to be reminded from time to time that the reason we first did it is the reason we should continue to do it-For The Sheer Fun Of It!
Larry P
Mick,
I would agree with what Larry said and add a few points.
First thing is with any racing, "smooth is fast". What do I mean by that? Sometimes if you push too hard, you go slower, not faster ESPECIALLY in the woods. I fight this myself every time I race, I'll find myself charging too hard, I flail all over, bounce off trees and generally waste a lot of energy for no gain. When I "slow down" I always go faster because I'm smoother. As far as body positioning, I think its more important to be comfortable and focus on the trail when in a race, dont worry about squeezing the tank or other stuff like that until you are practicing.
Second, a 1 hour motorcycle race is not long, think of it like a 5K in track. Its not a marathon, but its not a 100yds either. You have to go hard from the start, but pacing yourself is CRITICAL to having enough left to really hammer that last lap if you have too. If you go back on the MotoTally website and look at my lap times for the last three years, look at any race I have done you will find my fastest laps are almost always my second-to-last, or last laps.
Lastly, its an hour so the start is not a game changer, but being the first one into the woods on your wave is always the best place to be. How critical the start is really depends on how good that rider is at finding places to pass. I'm good at finding a way around so I dont freak out if I dont pull the holeshot, but its the best way to start obviously.
Brian
'72 Berkshire
I cannot contribute substance but check these dudes -- music is not to my taste but that rhythm of riding is amazing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7WJBZTC_1s
Click here to see Mars attack:
http://www.ufodigest.com/news/0208/images/marsattacks.jpg
That is Justin Williamson, a Florida Boy and now a Gas Gas Factory rider. I've seen him ride in person, its even more impressive than the video.
Brian
'72 Berkshire
Mars Attack video's are awesome. Whats all that green stuff?
G
Barstow CA
72 six-day
Larry and Brian make great points (and have the trophies to back 'em up!) I'm never first into the woods, but here's what helped me get a few pieces of wood and brass over the years.
1. Conditioning, conditioning, conditioning! I'm a B rider for life, but back when I used to race a lot I was also running 5K, 10K, 1/2 marathons and playing soccer 3 or 4 times a week. I was never good off the start but as other faster riders started fading, making mistakes and going slower, I kept a steady pace and could pick them off in the last half of the event. The more tired you get, the more mistakes you make, the more times you blow corners, drop it, etc., and the slower you go. Go to a Six Day qualifier and see how "fresh" the top riders appear to be, even after hours in the saddle. I recall being absolutely wiped out after the morning half of a qualifier in Muenster, TX a few years back (94 degrees at 7AM key time), and seeing Shane Watts relaxing under his E-Z-Up looking like he hadn't even broken a sweat.
2. Bike prep...when your bike is running good and is set up good it makes it awfully easy to glide by the guys on the side of the trail changing plugs, putting chains back on, etc. I'm sure Dwight and some of the other Six Days guys will chime in about the importance of good suspension set-up. Your bike can make the most power of anything in the woods, but if it's beating you up over every rock and log, it's no fun to ride and wears you down quicker. Smooth equals fast.
3. I gotta believe there's a certain amount of natural-born talent that figures into the mix someplace, or maybe it is just something that comes with tons more riding time than I have in the saddle. I spent two days at the Reunion Ride with Don Cutler, both of us on 250 Ossa Desert Phantoms. Don is up on the pegs all the time and he's 70 years old. I had to be on the ball every moment to keep on his back fender. He never bobbled, never picked a bad line, rarely took a dab, just rode smooth and quick the whole weekend, something I've never been quite able to master like the pros have.
Just my 8 cents worth (2 cents worth adjusted for inflation)
Jeff DeBell
OK, here's what I have so far:
1. Bike prep is critical
2. Train like a madman
3. Get the holeshot
4. Be smooth
5. Stand or sit, but be comfortable
6. Talent is great, but as they say in vintage racing, "youth and talent are no match for age and treachery"
7. Have fun!
Really good advice, anybody else?
Mick
Hi Mick,
Wow, there is some great advice here!
Here's some more that I'll add that I hope will help:
1. When you're racing with another rider or trying to pass a lapper, don't follow too close. The reason why is, if he makes a mistake, like for instance, overshoots a turn, you're be so close to him that you'll overshoot the same turn. You need to be back far enough that you can still see down the trail around him.
2. Pick good lines. How many times have ever been to a race and say, watched riders as they go through a big mud hole. As you're standing there, you see several good ways to go through it, yet most of the riders go through the same line, lap, after lap, after lap. You'll see a rider get stuck one lap, yet, the very next lap, he'll get stuck in very same hole...lap, after lap....
The good lines you see just standing there are the same lines you should be seeing while riding your bike.
3. Look ahead. In fact, look waaayyy ahead! This kind of goes with picking good lines. How far ahead? Well, me personally, I would have to guess that I look ahead down the trail at least 50 feet. This gives you time to react to any obstacles coming up, and for picking that great line around the big mud hole, and for making the pass on the guy ahead of you who just overshot the turn.
4. Ride standing up or sitting down? We'll that's just rider preference. Me, I'm a "stand up" rider. Maybe not as much as Kevin Brown, but darned close. I feel that since our bikes have only 4 inches of rear travel, while standing up, I can use my legs as shock absorbers. If you are sitting down and hit a ditch or hole really hard and it bottoms the bike out, then there's a chance that you'll feel the hit in your lower back.
But here's something you probably didn't know about our bikes...we have some of the hardest seat foams you'll ever see. And here's why:
We're both "stand up" riders, so we don't use the seat that often, maybe in some tight turns. So, when you sit down on the seat in a turn, with a stiff foam, you only sink down in foam maybe an inch or two. When you sit down in a turn on a soft or wore out foam, you not only will be sinking down about 5 or 6 inches, but your knees will be bending further too. So when you come out the turn, with the stiffer seat, it's easier on your knees (and quicker) to go back up to the "stand up" position because you didn't sink so far down into the foam in the first place.
5. Breath. There are countless riders out there that unknowingly hold their breath while they ride. And this is even a problem at the pro level! If you watch MX or SX on TV, ever once and a while you see a mechanic giving his rider a pit board reminding the rider to "BREATHE". Think about this the next time you ride. Are you inhaling and exhaling as you normally would? As you already know, keep good oxygen going to your brain and your brain will keep you sharp on the trail!
6.Drink plenty of fluids. Getting dehydrated doesn't make you day any fun. Drinking fluids also keeps you from getting cramps. If you ride with a drink system on your back, after filling it, turn it upside down and bleed all of the air out of the bladder and hose. If you leave the air in there, while you riding, the air and liquid get all shook up, so when you go to take a drink, the liquid is actually full of small air bubbles, and the bubbles can cause discomfort in your stomach (cramping, burping, nausea, etc.) Remember, you can also drink too much liquid and make youself sick. If you feel that you've drank too much already and your mouth gets dry, take some liquid into your mouth for a few seconds, and then just spit it out. This might make your helmet a little nasty, but it's better than getting sick from dehydration or from drinking too much.
7. Ride loose. Don't put a death grip on the bars. Let the bike work underneath of you.
8. Be patient, and be smarter than the other riders; "I'll pace myself today and I'll catch him when he wears himself out" "I'm just going to follow, and then I'll make a pass for the lead on the last lap" "I'm going to wave him past and let him go into the mud hole first so that I can see just how deep it is".
9. Ride your own race.
Here's a little something that goes along with being smooth. When my Dad was first teaching me how to ride, he gave me a bit of advice that has always stuck with me.
He said,
"Be smooth first, and the speed will come later"
Gary
My personal technique is to get good and tense, go like hell right from the start, have a death hold on the bike and over compensate for everything. Within the first lap I will crash hard and use any excess energy to right myself and get the bike going again.
After that sanity and rhythm seem to come much more naturally.
Pete Petrick
175 Jackpiner
Slow but Good
Gary makes some great points and he is a good guy(and a very good rider) for sharing them.
#2 About picking lines....I too have always stood on the side and watched people follow each other in the same mud hole.
#3 Actually #2 & #3 go hand in hand. Remember that what is 5 feet ahead of you is what I call the Too Late Zone...meaning, as Gary says, look WAY AHEAD. So if you are looking ahead and picking better lines you should hopefully going (1) smoother and (2) then Faster.
Thanks Gary for the great input and for the tip on the seat. Once you get your knees past what I call dead center you use up a lot of energy to stand up. There is also a lot to learn about placement of your foot pegs and handlebars. I found that the foot peg placement was more for Moto X. ***And of course being first to the woods is always great.
It is great reading the input.
Ron Carbaugh
Not much being said about breaking techniques here. I always was under the impression that if you want to go fast, you have to learn to stop fast too.
Raymond
Down East Pentons
Fast guys don't seem to use brakes.
Lew Mayer
Back when I was racing out of Toni's shop, I had the great fortune to spend considerable time in the company of all the FAST guys who also called Dirt Works their shop. Note that the only time I usually saw these guys was: (1) Before the start,(2) When they lapped me, and (3) After the finish. However, I did just once have the opportunity of watching a couple of these guys in action, from the saddle, in the woods.
We were putting the finishing touches on yet another world-class Turkey Run Hare Scramble course one year. We had our bikes there, and decided it was time to give the course a run to "see how she fit". The two riders with whom I was in company were both tops in their classes, able to nail down first place finishes in our highly-competitive CRA Series. I on the other hand, despite being on equal-quality equipment was strictly a mid-packer, barely able to eke out a (last) trophy now and then when all the good riders were somewhere else.
However, I was feeling froggy on this day and decided that no matter what, I was going to stick with these guys - even if it killed me! Well, they toed into gear and proceeded to split down that trail so fast that I thought their throttles were stuck wide open. They didn't slow down for anything! And, despite all inherent thoughts of self-preservation, I stuck with them. Uphills, downhills, roots, rocks, logs, mud, you name it - these guys just kept blazing. And, amazingly enough, at the end of the lap I was still with them.
So, what did I learn? Well, first - fast guys are crazy! Like Flip Jendre used to say, "If you want to go AA fast, you've got to be prepared to crash AA hard." With that being said, all the above information submitted by our friends who DO go fast is true. Speed, smoothness, consistency, concentration, trail-reading, bike setup, stamina - all very important. To all that I wish to add one more - momentum. The fact that my mentors never slowed down for anything had as much to do with momentum as speed. There were no pauses, no uncertainty, no bobbles and no dabs. Their riding techinque was extremely efficient. I noted the same thing with Frankie Gallo. No matter how nasty the obstacle or trail conditions, Frank would just keep the throttle on and he and the bike moving forward.
So, that's my take on makin' it through the woods. Oh, and about keeping up with my fast friends? After reviewing our test-lap of the course, they decided to make another lap, in order to estimate the time it would take riders to make each loop on race day. So once more we all took off. They were gone from sight in about twenty seconds. . .
Quotequote:Originally posted by Mick Milakovic
............. didn't have a rhythm, and wore myself out to the point that I made a mistake and killed the engine.
So what do you guys do?.............[:p]
Mick
See if this works for you -
one, two, cha cha cha - one, two, cha cha cha.......etc.
:D
Hey Bawb, that's the problem, I couldn't dance in high school, either ;)
Mick