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Thanks again guy (@Ski, @Doug)

[Now - where the hell would I find a pair of those??]

Thanks for the replies guys!

@ Doug Knight - you are absolutely right about my 74.5 35 mm forks being 7 inches of travel and I'm kind of embarrassed about not knowing or having ever confirmed that when i have done oil change or seal maintenance.  And with respect to longer front travel changing steering angle - I hear you.  Two things - I'm going to move my shocks to the laydown position, which would tend to counter that effect, I think I have noticed a tiny difference (sharper turning) when I have ran the shocks in that position before. And that is also one of the reasons I want to run an inline fork, I think a leading axle (AND longer travel) fork (with requisite clamps probably being required) would tend to slow down the steering.  I have raced two MC5s in hare scrambles (175 and 250) that I think don't turn nearly as sharply as my Jackpiner.  Could be wheelbase, longer travel, but I also think that leading axle fork contributes.  I wonder if the late and great world GP champ Moissev (RIP) would have agreed.

@ski racer - thank you James (again) for the edu-ma-cation regarding those inline "200" Ceriani forks. And thrilled to here they use that unique (it least it seems that way to me...) tapered upper tube.  Now - where the hell would I find a pair of those??

But...it's possible adding that much travel might slow steering down without increasing shock length of my Works shocks in the back, even in laydown (the 13.5 works great in lay-down and 'traditional").  As for my 77 MC5 175 build that has been my Historic racer for 3-4 years, I think I'm gonna sell it, currently making it pretty in the garage after a half (hearted) season on it in 2022.  You have heard me complain about the Gen 2 175 engine characteristics (i.e. the 7 fin motor) being way different than the six fin and it took me a long time to start going faster on the bike, even with the excellent MC5 suspension. I've always felt faster on my Jackpiner and - taking into account a 2nd XC race on the day might slow my ass down a bit (sometimes a LOT), when there was timed scoring, it confirmed this.  Hilarious right?  Thus my "vision" to try some Historic class racing with a (possibly) longer travel Jackpiner. Final comment on my 77 MC5 175 - l LOVE doing the occasional MX on it. It's real home in many ways, I keep up with bikes a lot bigger than mine.  I hope you and yours are healthy in Florida, sir. 

A few of you may have seen my FB post. I'm thinking about moving to a longer travel (inline) Ceriani fork for my 74.5 Jackpiner for Historic class racing.  From the feedback received, sounds like there were one or two styles that were sold on the 76 or 77 GS "cross country" style bikes or early Hercules models, one with a reinforcing rib, maybe one without. I'm guessing these models - while 35mm - might require their own unique triple clamps. I would rather not go to the leading axle style (like on my 76 MC5).  This is an exploratory inquiry.  Thanks! 

Bob Close
AHRMA #567
Several Pentons  ; -)

This event was on my To Do list for 2021, but I have just returned from spending two weeks with a very sick brother in Tennessee and it has rocked my world (and schedules...) for the year.

Great to hear Mr. Bowman has got his 100 ready to roll. Mine is still very much a work in progress, maybe ready for a "test race" at our Unadilla XC in early June.

Hi James - you may already be familiar with the Renthal Mini High that i use on my Pentons.  Specs are in link below, i did not do math.  I'm too lazy to remove about an inch from each end, which would make some of the tight stuff a little easier to navigate with the NE XC scene. I just scored a pair for my Berkie rebuild - about $70, which actually has a pretty nice set of those TALL OEM bars, if interested.

I hope our paths can cross in the future.

https://www.renthal.com/moto/handlebars/7-8-handlebars/mini-mx-7-8-quot/mini-high

Thanks for the offer, John.  Please text me at 315-297-2892 with what you have "accumulated", I'm not a builder by nature, but we'll see, and I know someone who is (Gary).  Great luck with walking into Larry's situation and scoring a relatively intact bike.  

Just a follow-up on suspension/set-up.  I was talking to Brian Kirby and he said the challenge with his CMF Berkie was ground clearance.  That's why you go to longer shocks (which also help steering) AND I even went to stiffer (WER supplied) fork springs in my bikes with very little fork sag.

Hello John (and Richard and Mickey) - good luck with your Berkshire build. I've been racing a Jackpiner in the Vint XC race for a half dozen years or so, a Six Day before that, and also thought racing a Berkshire would be fun in 2021. But you've got a headstart on me (I just asked on FB POG group on Friday) and you may have grabbed all of the available hardware from Larry and the gang!

Great advice from Richard, he's been hanging around a fast crowd for awhile now. I run 35mm forks and 13.5 in shocks on my CMF frames (I think you can use 13.75), electronic ignition, Renthal mini-high bend bars, ascerbis rally brush guards (plastic only, relatively cheap, I have beat the crap out of several sets). NEVER use stock pegs, I think Al sells a teethed set.  Tires are personal, but I currently use a Vee Rubber Tackee on front, and Dunlop Geomax 33 on back, not sure about rear fitment for 100 (and I use heavy duty tubes, which are NOT light). Can you run a 428 chain on that bike?

Always enjoy seeing you Richard, but the pandemic really limited this NY rider's schedule and ability to travel after Reynoldsville, had to cancel remainder of National schedule and aspirations (which included Barber and Diamond Don's!). Fortunate that our NE region had some excellent racing/courses this year (5 race weekends in eight weeks was tough on body).  If you survived White Rose (today), see you at York! Looks like you've got some riding chops there Mr. Bowman, based on your Ohio and Alabama results. Have fun with the build, good luck in 2021.

Penton race bikes = $$  [8D]

I'll mention controls, which I've maintained the same across 4 racing Pentons.  I've always used Renthal Mini-High bars, modern (but cheap!) clutch/brake/throttle perches, and the Ascerbis Rally (full plastic) guards.  I've had my Ascerbis for almost a decade, may finally need to replace one pair due to cracking/tree love sessions.

OMG - what a feed! And a side of Paul Stannard I didn't know about (with all due credit to Mrs. Stannard mind you).  I know where I am heading at dinner time  - and for Italy travel advice (!)  - at the next AHRMA national that Stannard shows up at.

Still feel the need to mention Hodaka - if you ever got up close to look at the 175 and 250 "works" bikes that Paul built (and Billy Burns was beating everyone on in AHRMA XC and MX a half dozen years ago), they were something!

Thanks - Happy Holidays to you, Paul Danik.  Back to wrapping presents!

I confirmed my shocks are 13.5, but it's the diameter of the collar/ spring that is confounding me - and I'm an engineer! My less than precise measuring suggests it might be 2.375 wide (2-3/8) and my 75 YZ125B is the same. Clearance to chain is less than a 1/4 on both bikes so I can see why this is critical.  My MC5 WPs would appear to have the wider 2.5 diameter collars, but I've used these on the Jackpiner when I bent a shaft on one of the shocks one summer, so...my tape measure around spring circumference could be dubious..

1) Someone else on the forum might be wiser, because I will confess I was not asked this question with both of my Penton WP shock builds; 2) maybe I would ask the Worx shock builder if they build them with smaller OD springs/collars than the 2.5? If he says NO, then this was all a figment of my pigment!!  

Sigh...(Some fellow POGGERS will laugh if they remember what kind of engineering I am responsible for.  Very scary - guess that is why I'm retiring in about 7 more working days)

I pinged Gary, haven't heard back, but Larry has been hanging around Pentons for a long time - great to hear he still had his 35's. If they need to be rebuilt, Al has the seals.

John - I can check the width on the WPs mounted on my Jackpiner (that I moved over from my Six Day...). but was curious as to where this "width" measurement is being taken - spring/collar width I would imagine.

Great to see you are excited and moving forward.  Interesting to hear that WORX is building shocks again for vintage apps - just about all of them are made with the dual spring set-up.  And I didn't use the kickstand so I wasn't concerned about going with 13.5". I liked the sharper turning they provide (although that could be my imagination).

Bob Close

John - I had someone else "build" my '72 CMF bike with the later 35s and triples, and I didn't think there were any issues, but maybe Gary Ellis can offer his two cents on this one.  I'll text him if he doesn't reply.

Just to follow up on the suspension discussion, I used the 35mm Cerianis from the 73 thru 75 Pentons on my 1972-based build (the 72's used a 32 mm Ceriani). But they can be hard to find (Larry P - I thought you were trying to sell a set of these for awhile). I've used WER suspension (Drew Smith, former ISDE racer) to source fork springs if/when needed on my other bikes, but my stock springs were in good condition.

If you can find a used set of "newer generation" works performance (13.5 inches) shocks, they are the way to go.  Rebuildable (again, I've used WER) and my understanding is that there are parts available, even though "Worx" (their new renamed company) is not making shocks anymore last I heard.  I don't have experience with Ikon or Hagon, but Hagon's high-end build shock is still pretty affordable vs. Ohlin, Noleen, or Race Tech.  Maybe someone here at POG has ordered a set of those.  

I'll confess my first set of shocks on my Six Day were the Red Wings, not sure if they are still available. They were rebuildable too.  Finally, some folks use Progressives, but my understanding is that they are not rebuildable.

HAH - just saw your "wanted" shocks post over in the For Sale board.  You're way ahead of me.  ; - )

Thought I would follow up on the Vintage after Day 6.  Everyone can go here to look at categories and results - don't be confused at the drop down, it will say Day 4 Vintage..

https://fim-isde.com/fim-isde-2019-results/

I guess I need to do some reading as Vintage team, Veteran team, Motorex, RK/Excel categories for individuals.  The Italians won Vint with two KTMs and a 76 "Puch Frigerio".

No Yanks there this year, but "Good Day, Eh!" to our friends north of the border.  Pretty sure we've seen a couple of these guys comes south for NE/MA XC rounds.  One - Patrick Tremblay - won the overall for "C72" category with a Yamaha!

There were some very fast Frenchies also at top of the RK/Excel category...with the overall guy in this class racing a Cardel.  What the hell is a Cardel? As near as I can tell, these were made by Aprilia with TM engines in the early Eighties. Very cool trivia, huh?  Haven't looked for any pictures from this year's ISDE...

https://www.yumpu.com/ro/document/read/49667769/cardel-125-enduro-1983-vintage-aprilia-jan-2008-moto-journal-