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No, it really doesn't the backbone sits too high in the rear. I used one for my 75 Penton 400 and because I was modifying the frame heavily and not using the breather I got it too fit.
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If it is truly a slide within a slide, that second slide is a choke. It needs to be pulled up when it is warm. So pulling the lever pulls up the choke and lets it get air. If it has to be down to run you are not getting enough fuel. You can pull the small slide out. Seems strange you would have one on an 82.

quote:Originally posted by SouthRider

The best system I have seen (and can't remember which brand - maybe a Husky) is with the top hat having needle bearings around the circumfrence.

I'm sure a savvy machinist could create that - but at what cost.....

I seem to remember that a properly dialed in KTM clutch with the bronze plates was just about bulletproof, and would take a TON of abuse. Like Al says - age is creating different types of problems than just wear.

Almost all the new Japanese bikes are that way.
And for sure I am keeping my bronze plates just in case. They are some worn out motheroos. But a little regrooving and surfacing they could get called back to duty.
But for flat track duty the new plates should last forever. For sure the clutch releases much better than before and seems not to be slipping. Just wheelies in every gear.

quote:Originally posted by rob w

quote:Originally posted by TedG

quote:Originally posted by SouthRider


Clark

PS - If I remember correctly the later year models did upgrade the pushrod assembly, and also the exterior clutch arm assembly. There were probably 3 or 4 versions of each - getting better over the years. If the exterior arm is getting wonky it will try to pull sideways and increase the stiffness noticeably.

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........... I am on the hunt for the new style actuator.
Thanks

There were two style clutch actuators for the Type 51,52,54, & 55 engines. A new style came out on the 1977 engines, but was short lived, and replaced back to the older style in '78 thru '80. So I don't believe the 2nd design could have been any improvement over the earlier one.
Al B offers a super trick repro version.
I'm about to start making more repro push rods, which will be available from Alan.

Bob

What would be very cool is if you could make a push rod that had a top hat on it so it would release the pressure plate evenly like most Japanese bikes have.

quote:Originally posted by SouthRider

Ted,

The 38mm will work also. Generally speaking you will get slightly less horsepower than a 40, but better midrange. The trick with Lectrons is that they just flow so much more air than a stock carb, and are easier to jet.

Speedy Clausen in Canada can help you with the right metering rods and a place to start with jetting the 38. We put 40's on the Rokon automatics back in the day & they would outrun most street rod small blocks for the first 1/8 mile - even with knobbies on pavement.

I see that Al Buehner is sold out of the new style actuating arm. Try Terry Everett too - he sometimes has NOS parts that aren't listed on his website. Also - I believe that the newer pushrod was the top hat style.

Thanks, I will do that, I don't want to adapt it over to the Lectron if I don't have all parts necessary in hand. I still have the metering rods that came with the thing so maybe I am good to go. It is brand new but close to 25 years old. So we will see. The good part is because there is no air box anymore putting on a new carb is a breeze.

quote:Originally posted by ALB

Hi Ted,

I have been following your project. I enjoyed viewing the photos that you have posted. Simply amazing how you have transformed that bike.

If you refer to the owners manual, it shows that the distance between the disengaging lever and the pressure plate should be 42.5 to 43.5mm. If the measurement is less than this, there will not be enough "push" against the pressure plate to release all the plates. In the book they say to "bend" the disengaging lever. DO NOT DO THIS. Remove the lever assembly from the bearing plate assy. Check the pin inside the barrel that presses against the push rod. Almost all of the pins in these engines are worn "flat". Replace the pin. I carry these in stock. A little bit of wear makes a big difference in the pull of the arm and operation of the clutch.

Installing a sleeve into the bearing plate will make the movement of the disengagement lever smooth and even. Most bearing plates are worn out causing oil leakage and the levers are wobbly. This "looseness" of the lever assy greatly affects the operation of the clutch. I have replacement bearing plate kits made of aluminum, with steel sleeves and a grease fitting inserted.

Everyone should keep in mind that these engines were built and designed to last a few years. The repair manuals were written to deal with problems resulting from racing conditions not 30+ years of "Old Age". At this period in time we are dealing with problems concerning age related wear and tear and because we are restoring these bikes to last at least another 30+ years, repairs have to be performed a little differently than what the books show. And most important, maintenance must be performed more, on a regular basis. Many of you have heard me talk about how dependable these bikes were. They were too dependable which caused many owners ignore doing routine maintenance on them. We now have to deal with that lack of maintenance.



Alan Buehner

Al,
For sure the that pin is worn out. I will be contacting you about another one. I am not happy with the sleeve that I put in there (I did that 15 years ag0) I may have to do another one or get one of your plates. I am going to read up on where you talk about the disengagement lever and the pressure plate.
So tell me those Penton stickers I got from you didn't set that bike off!

quote:Originally posted by SouthRider

Wow - I vaguely remember the shop manual showing that the approved method was with a dial indicator, likewise - we could usually get them pretty close by eye....

That is an absolutely gorgeous bike you have built, your machine work is fantastic.

If you can get your hands on a 40mm Lectron it will add several extremely tractable horsepower to that bike. It kind of becomes like a very powerful turbine engine with a big Lectron. You wouldn't want it in the woods, but on a flattrack - look out!

Clark

PS - If I remember correctly the later year models did upgrade the pushrod assembly, and also the exterior clutch arm assembly. There were probably 3 or 4 versions of each - getting better over the years. If the exterior arm is getting wonky it will try to pull sideways and increase the stiffness noticeably.

_____________________________________________________________________________________

"We the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible, for the ungrateful. We have done so much, for so long, with so little, that we are now qualified to do almost anything, with nothing."

1972 Penton Berkshire 100
1983 Husqvarna 250 XC
2011 Jayco 31.5 RLDS
2009 Chevy 2500 HD Duramax

I have a Lectron carb but I think it is a 38mm. I have to look. I also have the manual and I will look for the dial indicator method. But there is a big hole eaten away at the pressure plate almost to the edge from sitting for 15 years. As for the actuator, you are absolutely correct, but again finding a newer style has been fruitless. I put a brass bushing in mine and it is better but not great. I am on the hunt for the new style actuator.
Thanks

quote:Originally posted by Paul Danik

Hi Ted,

   Your story reminds me of something that happened " back in the day " when a guy picked up a new 400, shortly there after he complained about how the clutch was slipping, turns out he was burning the knobs off the rear......  

  By the way, congrats on your new position as a Board Member of the Ohio Valley BSA Owners Club. That organization has always been a great group of guys and obviously that tradition will continue, I see that all around good guy Steve Szewczyk is also now on the OVBSAOC Board...

Paul

Paul, you must have me mixed up with someone else. Although I was a BSA mechanic I have never heard of Ohio Valley BSA.
As far as spinning the wheel, I know the difference. The flat track tires have good grip on the pavement and won't spin up in the higher gears.

Got a chance to ride the thing up and down the street and it slipped like crazy, released well but....
So I added in a couple of steel plates to tighten things up a but. I lost some of the clean release but it doesn't slip anymore. It does release much better than when I started and it is acceptable.

quote:Originally posted by tooclose racing

Geez. some of the guys on this site are just ARTISTS, and now I must include you, Ted.

Just beautiful work.  Fantastic stuff.  Thanks for sharing your experience.

Flat Track is on bucket list.  Never tried it.  But I will....

Thanks for the compliment, I appreciate it very much.
I gotta admit the Penton stickers were the crowning touch, they reall made the difference.  
Flat tracking is a hoot. Short races, very intense, and everyone is having a great time and not beat to death. Everyone helps everyone.
If you like this one you will love the Street tracker I built out of one of my old racing frames. It turned out too nice to race and I am glad it did, because it spurred me to bring the Penton back to life.
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quote:Originally posted by kenbike

great bike Ted!  How long did you spend bring the bike back to life?

Thanks so much.
Well I just looked and I  first posted this almost exactly a year ago. Which isn't bad considering the shape it was in and the amount of mods I had to do. I love these kinds of projects.

Brian,
For sure the dial indicator is the way to go. My pressure plate had come corrosion on it and can't find a clean path for the indicator to go although I should fill the rough spots with JB weld and smooth them over.
This is also one of KTM's poorer designs the push rod end should have a top hat/flat area to insure the pressure plate releases/enguages evenly.

Update... Project is basically done and ready for me to ride, I tried to get District 36 to let me be a C rider (beginner class) and they informed me that if you were ever an A rider, the best they could do is make me a B rider. I just need practice.
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You don't have to use Simple Green full strength, 50/50 is strong but for a soak 25%SG and 75% water would work well. Gets cheaper as it gets more diluted.

I use a %50/50 mix for most grease removal and it only soaks in for a few minutes. Think what a 3 day soak would do. And a gallon of simple green is about $10 and it seems Pine sol is about $6-8 gallon. So it may be a wash (pardon the pun) as far as price. But Simple green is made for grease removal and is great for washing your bike. I use it on all my bikes. I will dull polished magnesium, but so does everything else including water.

Simple Green would work much better and cheaper.