Cheney II ISDT?

[Dale Fisher]

Through a joint effort with my brother we recently aquired another Cheney Sachs which surfaced recently in California.  The frame is stamped GP #1 our original prototype was also stamped #1.  This is what is known.  It was purchased from the owner of Cycle News in 1974 from a gentleman in Texas.  Since then it has been in the closet or basement of their headquarters.  Mike Galagher put me in touch with someone who did prep work for Preston Petty and had worked on one he rode briefly.  This one has been ruled out as being his due to some extensive welding repairs from desert riding and possibly a bad heat treat.  Today being the first day I have had to look things over there are other secrets it's not telling.  There are signs of ISDT parts with the first one being spotted a 48th - 183 - ISDT sticker on the back of the front Rickman hub.  The Sachs head and cylinder also have the holes drilled for wire seals.  The engine does have a small serial number stamped in the same area that Doug W. marks his cases although it appears to be not his.  Further research needed.


The new mates


The curious small ISDT sticker.


Holes drilled in the head and cylinder for seals.


Nothing unusual with the ignition, some stamping on the outside.


There's a number stamped in the left rear corner of the engine cases.


Curious small holes drilled in the outside edge of the rear hub.

1972 Cheney Sachs
1972 Suzuki GT380
1972/73 Cheney Sachs Project
1973 Triumph TR5MX
1973 Penton Jackpiner Project
1974 Penton Berkshire
1974 Honda MT125

[Jeff D]

Regarding the 48th ISDT inspection number, if I remember correctly Prez Paul said that the number coincided with the order in line that the bike was inspected/impounded and not the actual number of the entry/rider.  I'm thinking #183 would have been up in the 250cc class anyway (or at least the 175cc class), since I know Don Cutler's 250 Ossa was #209.
Now if you can find someone who has the inspection/impound list then you might figure out where that hub came from.  It will be interesting the find out more history of this rare find!  Maybe Preston can help?

Jeff DeBell

[joe novak]

Dale, You are one fortunate man to have received that Cheney Sachs.  If there is anyone well-deserving of it, that is YOU.   Just an example of good things happening to good people.   Your newly acquired Cheney is sooooooooo original.  (Paul Danik, are you listening?)   Joe

[Paul Danik]

Dale,

   That sure looks to be a correct and official ISDT tech inspection sticker from the 1973 ISDT, the one that is on my backing plate is the same, except my inner number is 17 as my bike was the 17th one to go thru tech inspection.

   I have the Tech Inspection Schedule from the 1973 ISDT event and there were 193 machines scheduled to go thru tech inspection before the 35 machines from Great Britain. The 183 is plenty close to when the GB team was scheduled for tech, if everything had gone perfectly according to plan they would have had tech inspection numbers 194 - 229.

    I do believe that and entire team withdrew before the event in an uproar over two stroke oil,  maybe many of the teams got bumped up in the schedule after they withdrew ?  I need to do some research on the team that withdrew, maybe someone else can chime in if they remember what team it was.

   In the paperwork that I looked over it states that the GB team rode Rickman-Zundapps, Dalsmans and Monarks, and what is listed as a MCB SP in the 125cc class.  I didn't see any mention of Cheney anywhere.

   Does your engine have any other drill holes for sealing wire, there should be a place to wire the cylinder to the engine cases and also a place to wire the engine to the frame.

   Awesome find
Hope this info helps.
Paul

[Dale Fisher]

Not that it's possibly related but the individual that Charles Clayton bought the bike from was William (possibly Bill) Daniels.  The bill of sale was notarized in Harris County, Texas which would put him near Houston.

I think it may be just the top end that has the drill holes, still searching for more evidence.  There was a Cheney-Sachs entered by the Czech team in 1972 but he didn't fare too well.  I originally thought it could be that one.  I think the white paint on the sprocket is from some office renovation as dribbles and dots are present elsewhere.

1972 Cheney Sachs
1972 Suzuki GT380
1972/73 Cheney Sachs Project
1973 Triumph TR5MX
1973 Penton Jackpiner Project
1974 Penton Berkshire
1974 Honda MT125

[Jeff D]

The Brits were on Rickman-Zundapps (which the unaffectionately nicknamed Rickshaw-Zuncraps since they didn't have the true factory engines like top scorer Rolf Witthoeft and the rest of the West German team!), Dalesmans, Monarks, Ossas, and Triumphs.  The entire East German team on MZs and Simsons withdrew but that was after the event started, so their machinery would have been inspected and impounded already.  I'll look at the entry list in the ISDT bible and see what it says, but from memory I don't recall any Cheney-Sachs...but my memory is kinda like Swiss cheese these days anyway!

Jeff DeBell

[SouthRider]

White paint on the cs sprocket was often used for an enduro (or trials) rider to tell at a glance if the nut was coming loose.

Common prep for a two day or six day bike.

Just a thought......

Clark

[Jeff D]

From Preston Petty....he doesn't know of anyone riding a Cheney-Sachs at the Six Days, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.  He had a couple of the Cheney-Sachs bikes and said they were great little machines.  He also said Eric Cheney never had enough cash on hand to pay Preston for fenders, etc., so he gave Preston bikes in exchange for Preston Petty Products items.
According to the Dalton ISDT history, the only "oddball" entry in the 125cc class is #73 MCB SP of British rider Richard Clears.  He finished 63rd out of 71 entries in the 125 class, retiring prior to finishing the event.

Jeff DeBell

[Dale Fisher]

I was aware of only one that Preston may have had.  Chuck D on the west coast said that it had a considerable amount of repair welding and forwarded this picture.  The only repairs that were done on this bike are to the left footpeg and someone refabricated the rear engine mounts into something flimsy looking.  This one shares the same handlebars and the front brake cable holder at the bottom triple clamp,



Preston desert riding on a Cheney-Sachs.

1972 Cheney Sachs
1972 Suzuki GT380
1972/73 Cheney Sachs Project
1973 Triumph TR5MX
1973 Penton Jackpiner Project
1974 Penton Berkshire
1974 Honda MT125

[Paul Danik]

Dale,

  You just might need to bring that machine to the ISDTRR and have Preston put his autograph on it. I have a question for you, which of the two different front fender brackets on those machines of yours is correct?  

The one with the mud flap reminds me of the one on the Tyran.



Paul

[Dale Fisher]

Paul,
The correct front fender mount would have been as shown.



This fender mount almost looks to be an afterthought.  Shown on this side is the thumb screw type "C" clamp holding the bracket to the fork tube.



1972 Cheney Sachs
1972 Suzuki GT380
1972/73 Cheney Sachs Project
1973 Triumph TR5MX
1973 Penton Jackpiner Project
1974 Penton Berkshire
1974 Honda MT125