Hiro powered Penton build dates

[Paul Danik]

Greetings,

   I believe that a few of you folks have Hiro powered Pentons that were converted "back in the day" by the folks at the Penton R & D shop, it would be greatly appreciated if any of you could post the frame number of your bike as we are trying to pin point just when they might have been built. While the frame build date won't tell us exactly when the conversions took place, it will help provide some clues.  Also, we are curious to see if the frame numbers are consecutive, quite doubtful, and folks who intend to do future conversions will know what general serial number range would provide the most authentic "donor" machines.

   Any comments or thoughts on this subject are very much encouraged.

Thanks,
Paul

[Paul Danik]

Thanks to one of the folks who is fortunate enough to own one of the original Hiro powered machines, we have a frame number build date, 410.  That would mean that the donor Sachs powered Penton that was converted to a Hiro engine was built in October of 1974.

       John has said that it usually took about a month from the time the bikes left the factory till they arrived at the port in Baltimore.
That all makes sense as it was right after the opening ceremony for the 1974 ISDT in Camerino that the gentleman who was behind the Hiro engines caught up with us and asked about finding John, that was in September of 1974. We will need to ask John at the next meeting if he ever actually would have considered using the Hiro engines if they would have proven themselves worthy enough, or if he was mainly just trying to "nudge" KTM along on the 125cc KTM engine development. If I remember correctly Carl Cranke did some testing and development work on the Hiro engine project.
 
    Still looking for more of the Hiro powered Penton frame build dates...also would be curious to see if there are engine serial numbers on the Hiro engines, maybe they are in sequence.

Thanks,
Paul

   

   

[Jeff D]

Paul,
You might give Jim Letellier at Letko Competition Cycles here in Kansas City a ring.  He used to have (and probably still does) a NOS Hiro engine, never started, on the shelf.  If he has it, he could give you that engine number.  It is likely home in his garage now, as Letko changed ownership and most of the vintage stuff was either sold off or found its way home with Jim.  
They are a modern KTM shop now, but in homage to the shop's past, Jim has a beautifully restored Jackpiner on display in the showroom along with a small collection of period enduro and ISDT memorabilia.

Jeff DeBell

[fosterboy]

Just seen the post good topic I went into the garage and looked at my motor it is a Hiro motor it has the blue Penton badges on it I could not find any numbers like an engine serial number! The only numbers on it are like the Sachs case half numbers mine are 126 (stamped on the bottom in the back) should there be a serial number as well? Does anyone have any idea on how to service the motor how much oil it takes? I haven't pulled the cover on it yet what type of ignition does it have does anyone have a recommendation on type of coil to use? Ed

72 Monark 125cc        68 Penton 100cc         68 Zundapp 100cc

[Steve Minor]

Ed....There are several people that can help, but for technical questions I'd start with Doug Wilford. Maybe he'll see this post and chime in.

Steve Minor
Wilmington, NC

[Paul Danik]

Steve,

  I don't believe that Doug was still with Penton Imports at that time, at the Italian ISDT in 1974, which is when we met the gentleman from Hiro, Doug is listed in the official program from the event as riding a Puch in the 250cc class.

   In Italy we prepped our machines in an open air work area.  I remember how Doug came by to visit with a couple of others, I am almost positive he was with Preston Petty and a friend of Preston's by the name of Paul Hunt. I also think Doug has told the story of how Joel Robert was part of the crew that pitted for him in Italy, Joel was involved with Puch at the time.

   I have a collection of color slides from 1974 that shows a lot of the work area, impounding, and numerous other shots taken during the event.  I am hoping to get them sorted this winter and possibly find a way to put them in the photo gallery.

   I have told this story before, but it still amazes me. The first person that I ever was aware of that owned a Hiro powered Penton was  Pat Mickevicius, Pat had made a post on this site telling us about his bike.  Long story short, we invited Pat to bring his Hiro powered machine to a POG meeting and show it to us, and he obliged us.  Just as soon as Dane looked at it he turned and headed to his machine shop area, returning with a piece of bar stock in his hand.  He held it up and stated that it was the end of the actual piece of bar stock that his Uncle Ted had used to make the rear motor mounts for fitting the Hiro engines...almost 30 years before. He then held it close to the mounts for all to see.

Sorry to ramble...
Paul

[Steve Minor]

Paul

I'm sure you've seen this article, but perhaps other POG members haven't.

Open this link and scroll down about mid page.

http://www.motohistory.net/news2004/news-july04.html

Steve Minor
Wilmington, NC

[Paul Danik]

Steve.

  Thanks..... I just copied and posted the story below, the picture didn't transfer, but the text did.

Paul
     

    The Little-known Penton Hiro

    (7/20/2004)

     

    This year at AMA Vintage Motorcycle Days, Pat Mickevicius had his beautiful Hiro-powered Penton on display. The Penton Hiro is an obscure chapter in the story of this legendary marque. One of the people deeply involved was Dane Leimbach, John Penton's nephew, a member of the 1974 Six Days team in Camerino, Italy, where Penton Hirothe Hiro connection was made; and the current manager of Penton Imports. Motohistory has asked Dane to tell the story.

     

    Our first contact with Andy Mosconi, the man who owned the Hiro Motor Company, came after the opening ceremonies for the ISDT in Camerino in 1974. A group of us – Jack Penton, myself, and a couple of other guys - were walking back to the dorms and as we walked along, we heard a voice with an English accent, asking us if we were Americans. We replied that we were, and the fellow, who looked every bit the part of an English gentleman, asked us if we knew John Penton. Jack replied that indeed he did, since John was his father. The fellow then introduced himself as Andy Mosconi, the owner of an engine manufacturing company by the name of Hiro Motor.

     

    We took him to meet JP, and the adventure of working with the Hiro engines began. JP and I made a visit to Mosconi's factory and saw some of the various projects that Mosconi was involved in. At the time. Aprilia did not have their own engine, so they were using Hiros. There were two other brands of motorcycles that had the engines in them, but I can't remember them. I believe that one may have been the SWM, but I can't be sure. And I don't have an idea of who the third one was.

     

    I looked all of them over, and then did a cursory evaluation of the machines, based on the Sachs-powered Pentons. While I did find some flaws, the bikes were pretty tidy, and I thought with some refinement, they could be winners. I seem to remember that we bought some of these bikes so we could test the capability of the Hiro engines, but for the life of me, I can't remember what ever became of them.

     

    JP was sufficiently impressed with the engines, and decided to purchase a quantity (25 I think) of them, and had them shipped to us in Amherst. We then proceeded to take the engines out of probably fifteen 125s, and went about doing the necessary modifications to install the Hiro engines in the chassis.

     

    This whole project was spawned by the introduction of the Honda Elsinores, because they were so light and fast. We had been trying to get KTM to build a new 125 engine, and because they were dragging their feet, JP decided to take matter into his own hands, and went with the Hiro engines in the hopes that if KTM wouldn't get off their butts, that perhaps the Hiro engines would fill the bill.

     

    The engines were much more modern than the Sachs engines, but they did have some drawbacks. The most problematic for the Penton machines was the narrow power band. For motocross, it wouldn't have been too bad, but woods riding was a challenge.

     

    Besides having a much better shifting mechanism than the Sachs, the cylinder had a hard coat bore instead of a cast iron liner. This was way ahead of it's time, and I can't tell you how long it was before the Japanese companies started to use this design. This, of course, made the engine lighter than anybody else's engines. There was another radical departure on these engines that you just didn't see in off road technologies, and that was a dry clutch. In fact, I'd never even seen a dry clutch at that point, so it was quite a revolution.

     

    The time frame for all of this would have to be some time in 1975, but I can't tell you exactly when it was. The major modifications to the chassis were the reversal of the drive system (because the engine drove on the left side like the Japanese engines instead of the right side like most of the European engines), and, of course, the modifying process to the engine mounting system. We had to cut the chain guard/guide pieces off the swing arm and re-manufacture them so that these parts were on the left side. Of course, the front engine mounts had to be removed and a new mount fabricated.

     

    There were less than 20 Penton Hiros built, and I have no idea where all of the machines went. I do know that Jeff Piasecki had one, and I think that he did some winning on it.

     

    Dane Leimbach

    Penton Imports Co., Inc.

[Knute]

Sorry for the delay...it took me a while to get the Hiro out where I could take a few pictures.  The frame is a 410, the base of the cylinder has a "C" stamped at the rear and "GILARDONI" cast into the left side, the underside of the case halves are both stamped "72" at the rear, and the carb is a 2/30/101.  If anyone would like any more pictures or would like for me to investigate any other areas for markings just let me know.

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